Player Character making Religions


Advice


Alright everyone I looking for any problems that would occur from a player creating a religion in game. For example let us say an evil party comes to town and one character walks up to the leader of the town and makes some speak to this leader about how he wishes to establish a church, shrine, or whatever you want to call the place of religious gathering in this town. The character plans to set up the religion of a god he completely made up. The character is from a somewhat distant land that has relatively no contact with the area he is currently in and claims it is a god of his home land. He also plans to use this as a way to amass a following for his own goals. Now if the character takes cleric levels in this "god" what problems should be expected from this. Also I wonder how the divine magic will work since it is a god that does not really exist.

Please do feel free to leave any feed back as it has been quite some time since I created a religion in game and do not remember the repercussions. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.


Well Clerics don't actually have to have a diety. There powers work just fine otherwise.

"While the vast majority of clerics revere a specific deity, a small number dedicate themselves to a divine concept worthy of devotion—such as battle, death, justice, or knowledge—free of a deific abstraction. (Work with your GM if you prefer this path to selecting a specific deity.)"


Yeah, something like a cleric devoted to the abstract idea of trickery, greed, nihilism, etc could do just fine. And of course, with divine spells at his disposal, the townies would be more inclined to believe in his false god.


We have not started playing yet and last time I made a religion it was grand. So I thought why not set out to do it again. I mean its an evil party most likely many of my plans will never see fruition. But it is good to know that clerics can still cast divine spells without a "god". Please do let me know if you people can think of any other problems or can help fine tune the idea by pointing out possible routes or experiences in this field. I wish it had not been so long since the last religion one of my characters made. But then again last time so many people began following it the "god" became real and then I had to do all sorts of things.


Dot.

Grand Lodge

There should be no problems.
Important things to remember:

They have no god for the purposes spells, abilities, or effects.

They gain no extra proficiency with any weapon, as they have no favored weapon, for their god, that does not exist.


The problem I would forsee are the reactions of other religions in the area. That's up to the DM and the setting. Golarion has a fake god already (Razmirran - ? spelling), but no Clerics (Clerics have to have a god in Golarion). Besides established religions, there are devout followers of other gods and, in the long run, the gods themselves. If you're poaching worshippers, sooner or later someone, mortal or divine, is going to be irritated.

*edit* I have my own setting, and in it the local religions would fall on you like a ton of bricks. Might be an interesting scam in the short run, but I'd have my escape well planned. Really, really well planned...


i wouldn't allow a player to pull a false god out of their hat. but if they wanted to be a cleric devoted to a specific high CR monster (Around CR20+) such as a specific balor or great wyrm dragon that has a cult devoted to them. i would accept that.

the minimum requirement is that the monster have a minimum CR of 20, after applying the advanced creature template and adding either hit dice, class levels, or size increases. that said creature be a sentient being (int 3+). the monster need not be a proper spell caster, but they need some means of attracting a level of either respect or fear sufficient to at least start a localized cult.

Grand Lodge

The PC may not know it is a false god, or rather, they refuse to believe their god is false.


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BANJO THE CLOWN


Isn't there a class/prestige class or spellcasting method that revolves around false divine spellcasting? I remember reading about it in the inner sea magic guide (or maybe it was the inner sea guide).

Grand Lodge

Razimir is not quite a god yet...


I think it is a Feat not a Prestige Class. Though it might be an Archetype.


Sorc archetype and prestige class


thank you everyone for the help so far. I do not know if that particular book will be implemented or any of its components. I do have an escape plan formulated. One that does have several contingencies, variations, and routes to take for a number of different scenarios. As for the creature someone mentioned earlier that is indeed one plan I had given thought to and one of the reasons I wanted to know if clerics could use divine magic without a god. Essentially I leave the slot empty and should such a need arise make such a creature the "god", especially if an angel or demon from another god comes after us.


Talk to your GM...

it's possible he may use the "The god's didn't create humans... humans created the gods" filosophy... (insert any monster instead of humans...)

That way the cleric worshipping a domain, creating a god may make the belief of said god so powerful that the god jumps into existence...


Bearded Ben wrote:
Sorc archetype and prestige class

Ok so it was an Archetype that was in the Inner Sea Magic.


During one of the many campaigns my group took part in we made a go at this. The party had been transported into an alternate reality that they were completely unfamiliar with. The GM had the world almost completely fleshed out but was missing some pieces of his pantheon (he had the major good and evil gods). Thus we brought worship of Kachong-Ghachong, God of the Other Side to the world. The best part was the dual understanding of the Other Side. We weren't talking about the metaphysical Other Side, we were talking about the literal other side. For everything that had two sides, Kachong-Ghachong was the God of the other side. For example, the temples had the front door at the back of the temple. When people would flip a coin, they would pray for the desired outcome. You know how when you flip a coin into the air then catch it and flip it over before you uncover it, that last flip was called seeking Kachong-Ghachong's blessing. Alas, the campaign ended before we were able to get too absurd but I've always considered resurrecting the Great One in another world.


I once played a character (a psion thrallherd) that claimed to in fact be a god trapped in mortal form. His cohort(thrall) was kind of like a high priest and his followers(believers) would come from far and wide to worship him. It was a lot of fun and it freaked out the other players, especially since psionics doesn't work like divine or arcane magic (no holy symbol, spell book etc).

As for the followers themselves they couldn't technically be clerics since I wasn't able to grant spells. I simply claimed that as long as I was trapped on the mortal plane in mortal form my followers must experience a loss of power as well.

In your case either your GM will let you have spells or not, it isn't really up to you but worst case scenario just fake it, Use Magic Device is a good skill for this as is Bluff and I'm pretty sure there are feats in addition to the classes above that allow you to fake spellcasting. Otherwise you could always just be a witch maybe, having your "god" be you patron and you would still have healing(in the form of hexes and spells).


half the evil gods of golarion have the trickery domain, as does Calistria (an almost evil god)

For an example, I can see a player starting a new cult who all worship "the lord".

Lord this, lord that, all the good things this lord does for them, all to find out that they are worshipping "lord asmodeus" , I can't see Asmodeus have a problem with that. Nor can I see Norberger having issue with it, a complete sleeper cell of followers somewhere, none of whom are evil themselves. how delicious.


Simon Legrande wrote:
During one of the many campaigns my group took part in we made a go at this. The party had been transported into an alternate reality that they were completely unfamiliar with. The GM had the world almost completely fleshed out but was missing some pieces of his pantheon (he had the major good and evil gods). Thus we brought worship of Kachong-Ghachong, God of the Other Side to the world. The best part was the dual understanding of the Other Side. We weren't talking about the metaphysical Other Side, we were talking about the literal other side. For everything that had two sides, Kachong-Ghachong was the God of the other side. For example, the temples had the front door at the back of the temple. When people would flip a coin, they would pray for the desired outcome. You know how when you flip a coin into the air then catch it and flip it over before you uncover it, that last flip was called seeking Kachong-Ghachong's blessing. Alas, the campaign ended before we were able to get too absurd but I've always considered resurrecting the Great One in another world.

Permission to use this?


Ah I do love seeing that I am not the only one to have tried this. Now if I can get this cult to work out like the last one. Though last time the Lady came into existence. Ah well it was still fun leading a fanatic cult to the goddess of fortune. Even made an order within the cult that in pathfinder terms would be inquisitor/rouges that were completely loyal to the Lady and their leader(me). If we had continued I am sure the DM would have found a way to turn that against me, especially since the character became deathly afraid of water after watching his closest friend get turned into water by punching an abolith, I forget the name the giant catfish like creatures that command the H.P. Lovecraft feel.


Azaelas Fayth wrote:


Permission to use this?

By all means, please feel free.


I was thinking of doing something interesting with this kind of idea in the campaign i'm in.

Backstory
In a previous campaign I had my Half-Elf Bard, Jim Raines convince a town to rename the town after him. I set up in his story that after the campaign (I never got to use the character again) several people set up a religion following the Great Jim Raines the Lichslayer

In my current campaign I claim that my character is a direct descendant (It is about 250 years later)of Jim Raines and he is an Aasimar. The Church of Raines has only small amounts of followers in the area of that original campaign but enough for it to be somewhat dominant in that area. My current character the Aasimar Ninja (Emilio du Fransisco von Raines) follows this church lightly but is now in a different region.

How Clerics Work
A few of the clerics are more dedicated to the ideas of Jim Raines such as freedom and song rather than as an actual deity. Other "clerics" are just Alchemists or Bards who believe that their skill and arcane abilities come from a divine source as Jim Raines, himself, was an arcane caster

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