Fly potions negating encounters...


Homebrew and House Rules


Good afternoon,

I am a first-time GM for a group of friends who play casually. My adventure is essentially a "get to X, kill things, report to the king" with more frill around it... The get to X part is a multi-week journey in game.

During the journey there are the obvious random encounters... However, there has been the threat (and once executed) of our Alchemist being able to trivialize, negate or completely bypass the group from an encounter via flying potions.

As such, I am looking for advice, recommendations or suggestions on game-mechanics that will allow for me to nullify that advantage should it come up.

Thanks!

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Random encounters arent super fun anyway unless you've already come up with some really interesting encounter ideas. If you need your players to wander down a old mountain crevice where they are then attacked, or anything else. Keep in mind, you always have the advantage.

Enemies can fly, ambush, chase, dispel magic, teleport and a varierty of other things to nab at fleeing PCs.

Also- your alchemist giving out fly potions? A, kind of expensive to keep up. B. Part of his character, an encounter with an enemy doesnt always mean battle, it can mean running away as well. You don't want to just nullify the ability entirely. Fly is something you'll have to prep for.


I would start with looking at your adventures themselves. The truth is that as your reach mid levels, the kind of story you can tell changes. If your encounter is trivialized by the fly spell, then something is wrong with your encounter. If simply passing over an encounter is an option it probably shouldnt be there. Make your encounters matter. I would recommend adding in more encounters at X rather then having the random encounters on the journey. Traveling is SUPPOSED to get less and less difficult as you level up.


You might also spice things up by giving the party more reason to stick to the encounter, even if it would normally be completely random to them. Throw in some NPC's or a caravan being attacked, complete with cries for help, and the party might think twice about flying away... maybe, anyway.

If that doesn't work, there are other options. Flying enemies, of course, could follow them, or even some spellcasting enemies who can put fly on their own allies or dispel the party so they can't ditch as easily. Archers could still prove a risk to them, if the PC's don't get out of range ASAP.

I assume they also need to stop for rest at times, yes? If they aren't going to slay monsters during the day, then I guess there's that many more roaming at night... when they are all sleeping and/or less prepared.

Finally, if none of that works, then your party must just really want to skip those encounters. In that case, you might simply want to speed up their travel. If they're really that against stopping for anything, you can just let them get on with whatever they're going for. That would depend more on you and the group though, so YMMV.


If it is a random encounter (meaning one that you rolled up on a chart and had happen based on a die roll saying "encounter happens" - rather than one that you hand picked and placed where it fit in the campaign) and the party just happens to have the luck to be ready to bypass it with something easy like a few fly potions... good for them, give them the XP for defeating that encounter and move on.

Also, as an experienced DM, I suggest that you never, ever, not even once, use a truly random encounter - always build encounters based on the party that you have, knowing their abilities and how they might respond, and set a deliberate level of challenge in your designs (meaning make some that you want to be easier, and some that you want to be harder) and then place those encounters where they add something to the experience of playing out your campaign - with "random encounter" then referring to encounters that happen when the PCs do not expect them.


I rarely do random encounters.

Flying is something that you just have to learn to deal with. Common ways to deal with flying are to have your NPCs or monsters fly too, arrange for the party encounters to occur underground or in buildings, or make the encounter such that the flying PCs still have to engage the ground-based NPCs/monsters. That can frequently be accomplished by having them need to rescue a hostage, or capture a key NPC alive or retrieve an item.

You'll get the hang of it.


I don't see a problem with PC's evading encounters--they don't gain the XP if they don't play through the encounter. Like other people have said, if you need them to, flying creatures can bring the encounter to the characters--and between potions and winged variant creatures, almost anything can fly.

On the other hand, having neat powers--like being able to fly over hordes of frustrated, fist-shaking monsters--is part of what makes the game fun. Try not to spoil your players' fun by trying too hard to make them always do what you want them to.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This reminds me of the first time my party went invisible to wreaked through an entire dungeon I'd prepared. Eh, you learn how to design encounters with everything juggled in your mind. Your games will only get better.


Flight? the alchemist isn't able to prepare such till at least level 7. where he can maybe do it twice with extracts. at that level, 375 GP to craft a potion isn't quite pocket change yet. the wizard could do the same thing, at level 5.

if potions of flight are an issue, remind the party of the 375 GP crafting cost, the fact they can only get one a day from their alchemist buddy, and that they only have a finite amount of said potions.

eventually they are going to run out, and eventually, they will be forced to fight your encounters.


don't give them Xp for something isn't a challenge... Or less..
But remember to give them more if the terrain is against them..

And change random encounters to GM's choise.. Seems like something ranged would be in order...

Silver Crusade

Assuming a party of 4 that's 3000 gps to get round an encounter that they could probably just fight and defeat easily?

Go right ahead...


Bigtuna wrote:

don't give them Xp for something isn't a challenge... Or less..

But remember to give them more if the terrain is against them..

And change random encounters to GM's choise.. Seems like something ranged would be in order...

I don't think you should penalize the players for acting intelligently, otherwise your encouraging the players to run in head first into every encounter. I have met plenty of gm's who set up a similar precedent only to regret it when the party decided to ignore his preciously crafted diplomatic solution in favor of hitting things with hammers for more xp.

Silver Crusade

There are three ways that an alchemist can give a party of 4 fly:

1: The infusion discovery and 4 extracts: This isn't really doable until 9th level. And even then, it uses up all his extracts. That's all his highest level spell slots on 1 fight. Punish him for that.

2: Making Potions: 1 Potion of fly takes 1 day to make and costs 375g in Materials if the party is making it. In that case, it means that every time the party does this, it costs 1500g. That's not exactly chump change and nothing I would spend to avoid a random encounter. If this is how they want to spend their money, bleed them out. Also remember that the alchemist can only make 1 potion a day and it uses up one of his 3rd level spells.

3: Potion of Fly, Infusion and Alchemical Allocation: This method only requires 1 Potion of Infusion and 4 Alchemical Allocations, making it much cheaper. The reverse is that it will take FOREVER to do. Each person must spend 2 rounds to do it, meaning that to buff a 4 man party will take 8 rounds. This isn't a in combat strategy. Plus, it will use up almost all the caster's 2nd level spell slots.


well - if they didn't feel like fighting the mother bear, full XP, minions of the dark overlord that didn't bring ranged weapons and as killed without ever posing a treat... - but then again - I like a slow Xp progression since highlevel just means more player power, which makes it harder to make encounters...


And never forget that your party has no idea how you're deciding what challenge they face when, or what they might come up against. You can orchestrate 5 "random" events for the players to come across, be that a travelling merchant that gets ambushed by centaurs, a pack of dire wolves descending on them in the middle of the night, or the party being attacked by acreature that, for some reason, only one party member is able to see.

Your players will see them as unpredicted events that happen while they travel, you will jsut be going down the list.


If your party is a high enough level that they can afford to pass around flying potions to trivialize a random encounter (or someone in the party has enough spells per day to get the same effect) then you probably need to be moving on to a new breed of monster. It's something you really need to be paying attention to above the 5th level; the tactical abilities at a PC's disposal from magic become powerful enough to trivialize many forms of "dumb" encounters.

For an easy fix, try changing locales. A thick forest canopy (treat as cover against flyers or difficult terrain for flyers as appropriate) could spell trouble for anyone trying to use flight to their advantage.

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