Simple premise, my friends: there is a class that is awesome. You know it. I don't. But I could, if you'd tell me!
Then we would both know awesome things. And that would be Super Rad.
Basically, I think there's real value in talking about why you enjoy playing a particular class, why it's fun, what it does well, what's interesting, etc. If I've never played that class (or archetype, no need to be picky) before, tell me what I'm missing out on. It's my hope that this could be a fun little idea catalyst.
Ranger, I love it!
You simply stay incredibly close to a fighter in terms of effectiveness in combat and yet you can do a lot more out of it.
Wow, this thread is revolutionary. Almost as revolutionary as the search function on these boards.
Why?
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My bard is awesome because she makes all the other members of the party who are awesome awesomer.
Ranger fan here.
mostly because they literally do it all (except maybe fireballs) spells, skills, combat, pets. Not always the best but always viable and fun.
I've went between Ranger and Rogue for a long time, but my favorite class is always whatever I'm playing at the time. Right now, I'm having a blast creating a Druid and whipping all the possiblities. In my book though, Rangers are probably the most flexible class and who doesn't love picking out their favored enemies.
Wow, this thread is revolutionary. Almost as revolutionary as the search function on these boards.
Why?
Why not? I've certainly demolished my own productivity by utilizing the search function on these boards. It's been useful and cool, especially when looking through things like class guides. But I've also found the aggregated "Guide to the Class Guides" to be useful and cool.
So why? What's the value added? It's already worked for me - I've never played a Ranger, never really got into them - but the Ranger love has already got me thinking about some fun ideas. Inspiration for one of my least favorite classes? Value added.
I'll add to this too: Inquisitors are awesome, because I'm always wanting to try different builds, swap out features and whatnot - and Judgement is pretty much doing that at combat speed. They can do a lot of different fun stuff in and out of combat - and then they get 3/4 spell progression on top of it! I really dig all the interesting options.
I'm torn. I've loved my Monks (straight Monk outta the Core!) and I actually don't think they need a fix.
I also am madly and deeply in love with the Alchemist. A lot of my backstories are centered around needing to find that rare material/spell component/etc.
Also, I'll give in to the Ranger love, playing my 1st one ever and it is surprisingly fun.
I'm torn. I've loved my Monks (straight Monk outta the Core!) and I actually don't think they need a fix.
Cool! What is it you like about your O.G. Monk? I've got a Drunken master buddy who is a lot of fun for both the player and the rest of us, and I do love my Zen Archers - but I've never actually seen anybody playing a straight outta Golarian Monk, so I can't speak to it as much.
...
Although now I want to roll up an NPC group of urban monks based on NWA...
I tend to spend more time making characters than actually playing them. At the moment, I've got several characters lined up to play.
The first is a Keleshite Rogue. A sort of prince of persia character, clad in rags and dual-wielding scimitars. He's a thief-acrobat, so the rogue class seemed a natural fit--especially with a house rule merging the rogue and ninja classes, granting them all sorts of nifty tricks (via "ki" pool).
The second is an Andoran Fighter (Free Hand) and Duelist. She's a half-elf pirate, formerly a naval officer. Her first mate and cohort (via Leadership) is a half-orc barbarian. Together, the two can cover much of one anothers' weaknesses--a perfect duo.
So, from what you can see here--I like playing agile fighter types. Unfortunately, none of the above listed classes satisfy that itch entirely.
None-the-less, I'd have to say rogue's my favorite class. I'm willing to sacrifice the DPR to accomplish amazing feats of acrobatics and the like (though, I have to say--I'm rather envious of the monk's fast movement).
I'll add to this too: Inquisitors are awesome, because I'm always wanting to try different builds, swap out features and whatnot - and Judgement is pretty much doing that at combat speed. They can do a lot of different fun stuff in and out of combat - and then they get 3/4 spell progression on top of it! I really dig all the interesting options.
I really want to like the inquisitor, the flavor is awesome but no matter how many times I read the texts (srd and build guides) and see people play them (only a few) they just feel mechanically underwhelming to me. I build a lot of full casters for myself to play and a lot of full BAB for my wife, but I struggle with the hybrids. I did play a bard for a while, which is arguably one of these hybrid types, but I ended up growing very bored.
I don't think of myself as a 100% optimizer, I like my characters to have flaws and will often sacrifice mechanical perfection for flavor, but I do like my characters to be stellar at their niche. 3/4 BAB classes just don't feel stellar at anything to me.
To the original topic of the thread, I really enjoy the witch and sorcerer the most. Some people will argue that wizard has more flexibility, but these classes feel very flexible and with good staying power to me. Witches can hex all day and the sorc gets more spells per day which can be changed on the fly. The pages of spell knowledge also aid in versatility a lot. Most of my games lately have been PFS games where a wizard doesn't normally have the time to memorize what is "optimal" for this encounter, so the unlimited spell list isn't as valuable to me as it seems to be to others.
Edit: I used to love psions in previous editions and they are a 3PP class now, if they count as an available class, I would put them at the top of the page. Awesome flavor, power and flexibility.
Mystic Theurge. Turn those ten levels into fourteen and your twentieth capstone ability is casting miraculous wish.
More generally, Paladin. I love the crunch abilities: Armor&weapons, some neat and unique spells, lots of defensive abilities, and the ability to look a BBEG in the eye, say 'you're going down!' and smite the crap out of him. Attack goes up, damage goes up, and I don't care what reduction you've got.
Also, I love the fluff. I like paladin/white-knights. Always have. That fact that you have a very real and tangible connection to the thing you worship is added bonus. If I could be one, I would. That my brother prefers CN rogue-types makes things interesting.
I like Bards for their conceptual versatility. They don't have to be some singing and prancing guy, especially with archetypes, they can be a sage, a swashbuckler, Indiana Jones, or even a wizard (someone once pointed out that Gandalf is mechanically much closer to a Bard than a Wizard).
I like Rogues for the same reason: they don't have to be a thief. They can be swashbucklers, spies, socialites, scouts, thugs, or anything that needs a lot of skills. A skill-poor class can dip into Rogue to fill itself out a bit with extra skills.
Edit: I think the next class I'm going to try in Ranger, though. I've always kinda ignored them, but I think they have a lot of versatility that I've never really explored. Or maybe Alchemist. I like alchemists conceptually, although I'm not quite sure yet about how PF implemented them.
I'm torn. I've loved my Monks (straight Monk outta the Core!) and I actually don't think they need a fix.Cool! What is it you like about your O.G. Monk? I've got a Drunken master buddy who is a lot of fun for both the player and the rest of us, and I do love my Zen Archers - but I've never actually seen anybody playing a straight outta Golarian Monk, so I can't speak to it as much.
...
Although now I want to roll up an NPC group of urban monks based on NWA...
Well, to be honest, it's his flaws. I love playing up his air of physical perfection, going so far as to call himself the next Irori. And then I love watching him fail some simple little task or save that shouldn't have been a sweat. There's just a ton of RP value I've gotten.
Plus, I'm grapple focused, so the OG (Original Golarion!) Monk was a pretty good choice. I went Greater Grapple and kept him as sneaky as possible, so I often get to Pin and Tie Up by round 2.
Paladin. I love the crunch abilities: Armor&weapons, some neat and unique spells, lots of defensive abilities, and the ability to look a BBEG in the eye, say 'you're going down!' and smite the crap out of him. Attack goes up, damage goes up, and I don't care what reduction you've got.
I have to agree with you. The immunity to fear is a big bonus in my book. Nothing's more frustrating than lack of control over your character--especially with "fear" effects. It's embarrassing and totally breaks the "cool factor." Paladins don't have to put up with that sort of thing.
Yes. Yes you do. You forgot the second part of the sentence. You can't go wrong with Aristocrat, and all his hirelings.
@ Detect Magic - true story. It's a hard archetype - the nimble, Errol Flynn swashbuckling type - to model in PF. I'm pretty much in your camp with the character-heavy approach. In my biweekly (with my Inquisitor, and the aforementioned Monk) our Ninja & Ranger had a rooftop race/parkour competition while the Inquisitor & Magus went to visit a Haberdasher contact.
The feats of skill and one-upsmanship that ensued make me look forward for when our Monk rejoins us.
ROOFTOP OLYMPICS TIME! (Everyone's playing Assassin's Creed except for me)
@ Sitri - if it helps, think of the Inquisitor as being kind of modular - with the right judgement active, it *is* a full BAB class, as the to-hit bonus scales to make you essentially full BAB when it's active. Instead of a to-hit bonus, you could instead have a damage bonus - it's basically like Power Attack, which also scales. Once you get Bane, it's better than full BAB - as you're slightly ahead of the to-hit curve against anything you're fighting, provided you have a swift action to use.
@ Lloyd Jackson - That relationship - between deities and their worshipers is one of the coolest things about fantasy settings, and the Paladin plays with that in a pretty cool, visceral way.
An Archer Paladin also one-shotted the first Dragon I ever ran. Awesome for them!
Wizards dont really have less spells per day than sorcerers. Just because its mentioned again and again and again everywhere...
They just dont.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Bard. Super skill monkey, broad and powerful utility and buff spell list, and inspire courage.
Always useful in any situation, in or out of combat. Fully buffed, hits like a ton of bricks and makes the rest of the group do the same. You can fill almost any role, several at the same time, and do it extremely well. Plus you look great doing it.
Sorcerer. The idea of a being having innate natural powers coming from some ancient entity/event lends itself for a lot of RP
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Barbarians! I've always been a scrawny intellectual in real life, so I love playing a 16 Str/14 Con (20 Str/20 Con when raging) brute who can stare down giants and cleave through crowds of humans.
I'm also a huge fan of transformations in general, but particularly lycanthropy. So the Beast Totem rage powers, combined with a half-orc who has the toothy racial trait, are the way I play. I might have an axe or something that I use in case of a dire need for massive damage quickly, but more often than not I'm content to RAGECLAWBITEPOUNCE.
In the same vein, I do love me some Eldritch Knight. It's really the only way to play a frontline transmuter, as you need full BAB and hit points in order to stand a chance. I restrict illusions and necromancy, usually, and go Transmuter 5/Fighter 1/EK 10/Fighter +4, to get me 5d6+15d10 hit dice, 14th level casting, and +17 BAB. My combat spell of choice is form of the dragon ii, for the sheer flavor of it, though beast shape IV and monstrous physique III have their moments.
@ Wasum
At first level, a Sorcerer has 3 level 1 spells/day. A Wizard has 1.
At sixth level, a Sorcerer has 6 level 1, 5 level 2, and 3 level 3, for 14, 3 of which are highest level.
At sixth level, a Wizard has 3 level 1, 3 level 2, and 2 level 3, for 7, 2 of which are highest level.
At thirteenth level, a Sorcerer has 6 spells/day for levels 1-5, and 4 for level 6, for 34, 4 of which are highest level.
At thirteenth level, a Wizard has 4 spells/day for levels 1-4, 3 for level 5, 2 for level 6, and 1 for level 7, which is 22, 1 of which is highest level (which is one higher than the Sorcerer can cast) and 2 of which are at the highest level the Sorcerer can cast.
...
I'm not trying to argue with you, but I am not certain I see what you mean. Could you explain? (This would actually be useful, and in the spirit of the thread, as I've never really "gotten" Wizards as opposed to Sorcerers)
You forgot the extra spell slot for their school every level.
.
.
.
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13 sorc:
1: 6
2: 6
3: 6
4: 6
5: 6
6: 4
=34
13 Wiz
1: 5
2: 5
3: 5
4: 5
5: 4
6: 3
7: 2
=29
Wizards have pearls of power. At level 13 they definitly have more than 5 of them.
I think Pearls of Power are a bit too expensive to really keep up with sorcerers, though. At level 6, you'd have to spend 20,000 gp on pearls to cast the same number of spells. What's WBL is half that. A crafting wizard could keep up, but have nothing left to spend on other items.
Edit: With a wizard's bonus spell per level taken into account, it's only be 6000 gp. That's a lot more feasible. With an Arcane Bonded object, they can even overtake sorcerers on the highest spell level.
Lagging behind a level for each new spell level also hurts sorcerers. I may have to give it to the wizards here.
Gotcha. I'd completely forgotten about school slots.
Even so, this is less "Wizards dont really have less spells per day than sorcerers... they just don't," and more that Wizards can spend gold on magic items that alleviate the fact that they have less spells per day than Sorcerers, and at higher levels, they can even use this method to surpass the amount of spells per day that a Sorcerer has.
Do I have the long and short of it?
EDIT: High-level spells sooner is a pretty big advantage, no doubt. It's the Wizard's strength as I've always understood it.
I like my favorite class because it's so good at what it does. No class does it all well, but my favorite class is of solid benefit to a well-rounded party.
That's why I like it so much.
Seems Legit.
Seems Legit.I like my favorite class because it's so good at what it does. No class does it all well, but my favorite class is of solid benefit to a well-rounded party.
That's why I like it so much.
Wizard. You have the most versatility and you are basically a bard, cleric and summoner all in one. The wizards ability to buff, debuff, and summoner. With the debuff you hurt the enemy therefor helping your friends. With the buff you help your friends thereby hurting the enemy and when you summon (if you choose to do so) you are basicaly adding another low-level fighter that can have spells and other abilities ( aka Bralani azata). Check out Treantmonks Guide to Pathfinder Wizards: being a God.
Conjurer Wizard. The whole thing about bribing the creatures you bind is really useful when the GM randomly generates the treasure.
No Clerics so far? For shame! Ok, your team-mates may be powerfull, but you have a GOD that really has your back!
I've played a cleric or two, but they've always rubbed me the wrong way. Praying to a god to receive your spells seems too... desperate. I mean, it feels like grovelling. Not very heroic, that.
I've always preferred the wizard, or sorcerer, to the cleric. Their power is all their own.
Witches. Not for burnability or floatability, but for awesome maniacal fun times. You can be a pacifist witch and still be adored :)
I can fight fairly well.
I'm the best at skills in the game if I put my mind to it.
I'm a decent caster with some truly awesome spells.
I make everyone around me more awesome, increasing the combat capabilities of the party as a whole without being overpowered.
I have very inexpensive heightened suggestion that lets me be a great enchanter.
I know a bit of everything.
Oh yea, and haste, good hope, inspire courage all in one round.
My favorite character is super rad and outta sight.
By which I mean he can turn into the Hulk and also cast Invisibility.
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I love me some Cavalier. It's such a cool class that no one else seems to like. Plus any Prestige Class that can come from it, such as the Low Templar, the Mammoth Rider, and the Hellknight for example.
I also love the Cleric class. It's such a versitile class that can heal, do some damage, or do some serious crowd control. As with the Cav, I greatly enjoy the PrCs that come from the Cleric as well, like Divine Scion or Holy Vindicator.
Last, but not least, comes my undying love for the Summoner. Some say it's Over Powered. I say that if you play it like it's a character and not like it's a "Oh, look at how many attacks I can get in one turn!" type of class, then it really starts to shine.
Spoiler'd in case people don't really want to read that.
Gotcha. I'd completely forgotten about school slots.
Even so, this is less "Wizards dont really have less spells per day than sorcerers... they just don't," and more that Wizards can spend gold on magic items that alleviate the fact that they have less spells per day than Sorcerers, and at higher levels, they can even use this method to surpass the amount of spells per day that a Sorcerer has.
Do I have the long and short of it?
EDIT: High-level spells sooner is a pretty big advantage, no doubt. It's the Wizard's strength as I've always understood it.
I am glad you got to it before I did, you have have more tact :)
@ Sitri - if it helps, think of the Inquisitor as being kind of modular - with the right judgement active, it *is* a full BAB class, as the to-hit bonus scales to make you essentially full BAB when it's active. Instead of a to-hit bonus, you could instead have a damage bonus - it's basically like Power Attack, which also scales. Once you get Bane, it's better than full BAB - as you're slightly ahead of the to-hit curve against anything you're fighting, provided you have a swift action to use.
I will have to give it another look with this in mind. Thank you.
@ Sitri - if it helps, think of the Inquisitor as being kind of modular - with the right judgement active, it *is* a full BAB class, as the to-hit bonus scales to make you essentially full BAB when it's active. Instead of a to-hit bonus, you could instead have a damage bonus - it's basically like Power Attack, which also scales. Once you get Bane, it's better than full BAB - as you're slightly ahead of the to-hit curve against anything you're fighting, provided you have a swift action to use.
Except that the inquisitor is still a 3/4 BAB class; one of the benefits of full BAB is that you get your iterative attacks sooner. Inquisitors can't really emulate this.
My sorcerer is awesome because...
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Because she has big...spells?
Cleric, Paladin and Wizard. My first character ever was a Cleric, an adorable and hilarious half-elf who worshipped Pelor.
Despite this, I usually have no problem playing any class except the Fighter. I still need to try out playing a Barbarian and an Alchemist.
My sorcerer is awesome because...
Hah!! Mine are bigger, and I look better too.
Because she has big...spells?
You know what they say about drow. They're unbalanced in all the right ways. :P
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Bard, hands down.
No full BAB? No problem, because I can buff/penalty stack. Haste+Inspire Courage+Grease = Extra attacks and bonuses for the whole party against the enemy's flat-footed AC.
Spell list? Not much for blasty, but no problem, because blasting is for chumps. I get some of the best utility spells in the game, including being the only class to get Glibness. With my natural Charisma I can make the NPC's believe I'm the deposed king and build my own army.
I may not know as much as the Wizard about Arcana, but I'll come damn close, and there's not a knowledge I don't have a chance at. PLUS, while I may not get the same amount of skill points as the rogue, I get to roll some of them up into my highest ability modifier and condense them, effectively making me the best skill monkey in the game.
And if I want to get down and dirty like a fighter, or mix it up with some traps like a rogue, there are so many archetypes which give me sweet bonuses as well as my awesome bard spells/inspire courage.
You just cannot beat the bard for all around versatility, effectiveness, and utility. People complain about the Schroedinger's Wizard who is only god-like because of lenient DM's----every Bard is Schroedinger's Bard. There's not a feasible situation he could not be of some use in.
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Hah!! Mine are bigger
Yowch. How often do you see a chiropractor?
"Praise of the Bard"
All my thumbs up.
Silly people and them thinking bards suck... Although I haven't seen any bard hate threads lately... That might change now, darnit...
To speak on why I like sorcerer, specifically this one: I enjoy the idea of a character whose power comes from something that might be outside their control, how they are influenced by that and whether they try to rein it in and control it or let the power flow freely and without restraint.
This one in particular is such an exemplar of manipulative self-liberation that she refuses to let her lustful nymph blood compel her (though there's no hiding its effects on her appearance) and is entirely chaste. She was even offered godhood and refused it, as the price was to serve another.
Lolth may currently want her as her avatar because she is so good at scheming and backstabbing and lets none choose her path (and because she's ridiculously good looking). The party already includes an avatar of Gruumsh and a newborn god. The theme of the campaign appears to be apotheosis. This sorcerer will take power only if it is hers alone to wield... or if she can wrest it from whatever benefactor grants it (usually by trickery or manipulation).
If every party member is to become a deity, she will be one by her own actions. This may involve killing another god and stealing its power, but if that's what it takes to be truly free, that's what will be done.