Fighter (Lore Warden) / Duelist Build Suggestions

[GM Kyle]

I'm wanting to play a Duelist for a game.

Character Creation
1st Level
25 Point Buy
2 Traits
Core Classes Only
Archetypes Okay

I know that the Duelist route (Finesse) is not the best for damage but I want to have fun and try something new. I want to be fast, dashing, have a wide range of skills, and help set up flanks. This is my proposal:

Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
AC 19 (10 + 4 Dex + 4 Armor + 1 Dodge)
14 STR
18 DEX
14 CON
14 INT
10 WIS
10 CHA
Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Chain Chirt, Rapier
Expert Duelist, Reactionary

Thoughts? And looking to the future, what is a good idea? Is disarm or feint worth investing into?

[GM Kyle]

Shameless bump.

Is Lore Warden the best option? Is Free Hand Fighter or Weapon Master a better option?

[Roberta Yang]

Unless you're planning on doing a lot of combat maneuvers, Free Hand Fighter is probably a better bet. And in the long term, maneuvers stop being useful as monsters become immune to them - good luck tripping or disarming a flying dragon.

[Whisperknives]

The best choice would be the Swashbuckler class as a set up for duelist. If they allow 3rd party.

[MechE_]

Freehand fighter was basically made for going into Duelist - my duelist went that route.

[Nicos]

Roberta Yang wrote:

Unless you're planning on doing a lot of combat maneuvers, Free Hand Fighter is probably a better bet. And in the long term, maneuvers stop being useful as monsters become immune to them - good luck tripping or disarming a flying dragon.

Dirty trick-Blind.

[Nicos]

GM Kyle wrote:

I'm wanting to play a Duelist for a game.

Character Creation
1st Level
25 Point Buy
2 Traits
Core Classes Only
Archetypes Okay

I know that the Duelist route (Finesse) is not the best for damage but I want to have fun and try something new. I want to be fast, dashing, have a wide range of skills, and help set up flanks. This is my proposal:

Human Fighter (Lore Warden) 1
AC 19 (10 + 4 Dex + 4 Armor + 1 Dodge)
14 STR
18 DEX
14 CON
14 INT
10 WIS
10 CHA
Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Chain Chirt, Rapier
Expert Duelist, Reactionary

Thoughts? And looking to the future, what is a good idea? Is disarm or feint worth investing into?

I think lore warden can do the trick, you gain bonus to damage and basically you do not lose anything for the duelist.

It would be better to know your planed build, with only the first level it is hard to tell how it would work. But a few things

- Your will save will sucks: You could reduce the str to 13 and put that +2 in wisdom then you could add a trait for an extra +1. that would be 10% less chance to be glitterdusted.

- Yes, Cobat maneuver can be great, Lore warden do not need much investment to be more or less efective, but being a duelist can complicate the issue. For a combat maneuver orieted build you would need at least 7 levels in LW.

feint is not a good idea, note taht feint is not a combat maneuver LW do not gain any special bonust to feint.

[Chris P. Bacon]

Lore Warden is a good option as you get to trade in Bravery and some armor proficiencies you were never going to use anyway for Combat Expertise and a few bonus skills. The loss of Armor Training 1 hurts a bit, but +2 to your CMB and CMD is amazing.

Maneuvers aren't that bad, even at high levels. Depending on the campaign, you likely won't always be fighting huge, flying, or amorphous opponents; humanoids are often villains, and they're plenty vulnerable to tripping and what not.

With that said, however, I still wouldn't bother to invest much (or anything at all) into maneuvers, for a few reasons: 1) you won't be in Lore Warden for long before getting into tasty tasty Duelist, so you won't have a huge bonus to CMB anyway, and 2) going Duelist means missing out on all those fighter feats, so you won't have as many to spare as you might think.

But that's okay: the Lore Warden's Maneuver Mastery ability won't be wasted even if you don't use any maneuvers. What's often overlooked is that you're also getting a +2 to CMD, which is already awesome all on its own. Those same monsters that are a complete pain in the butt to trip or grapple are also really likely to use maneuvers on you, so any bonus to your CMD is welcome.

Instead, might I suggest Dervish Dance as a 3rd level feat. It's a bit silly, but it was made for the Duelist class (literally), and can really help you make up for the einhander style's low attacks, lack of shield, and low damage from strength. It also lets you drop your Str a little, though not too much, as you have to watch your carrying capacity, too.

To complement the one-handed style, it's also really tempting to go for Whirlwind Attack asap. You have the dex and int, you're already getting dodge and mobility, and you get combat expertise for free.. why not? Add in Lunge (6th level at the earliest) and you'll be a blender in groups. Against single opponents or very small numbers, Spring Attack (also easy for you to pick up) will make it easy for you to get into a flanking position.

Expert Duelist and Reactionary are good trait choices. However, if you're planning on actually using Combat Expertise, I'm also a fan of Threatening Defender.

[Nicos]

With lunge you could use maneuvers without provoke against most of medium humanoids.