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I like to play fighters because they crush face. Nothing like that look of shock and disbelief on the GM's face when he asks you, "you did HOW MUCH damage?"
Yeah!
*hi5**chest bump*
*fist pump*
*companionable slap on the butt*
...
...too far?
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You know that fighters can swap out feats right?How does that solve his problem of already having all the good ones and having to choose from the ones he doesn't want?
That's subjective. There are lots of nice feats after 10th level so having all the good ones before hand is false. Like I said at the beginning of the post, what is deemed a good feat varies from person to person.
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"What are you doing?"
"Praying, in order for my god to grant me my daily spells."
"Oh, how long does that take?"
"About an hour."
"Oh...what about that ogre over there?"
"He can wait."
"He...doesn't look like he wants to wait."
"Well, that's not really fair, our GM wouldn't be that mea-*HURRK*"
*This message brought to you by Fighters*
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"What are you doing?"
"Praying, in order for my god to grant me my daily spells."
"Oh, how long does that take?"
"About an hour."
"Oh...what about that ogre over there?"
"He can wait."
"He...doesn't look like he wants to wait."
"Well, that's not really fair, our GM wouldn't be that mea-*HURRK*"
*This message brought to you by Fighters*
What amusing propaganda. Perhaps the Fighters didn't realize that the clerics still have access to any spells they didn't consume previously. Spell slots don't vanish at the end of the day, but they can be refilled/revised each day. It's entirely possible for a cleric to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when they meditated with some incense of meditation.
Of course, if an ogre is an issue, I suppose we're talking about a level when healing via consumables is really expensive. I hope the Fighter doesn't plan to melee with him. :P
Playing a fighter is my favorite class. But I have to point out that I find I do like to spend soem time on a back story and have character ideas developed from the start to make the character more than just the "vanella fighter".
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"What are you doing?"
"Praying, in order for my god to grant me my daily spells."
"Oh, how long does that take?"
"About an hour."
"Oh...what about that ogre over there?"
"He can wait."
"He...doesn't look like he wants to wait."
"Well, that's not really fair, our GM wouldn't be that mea-*HURRK*"
*This message brought to you by Fighters*
What amusing propaganda. Perhaps the Fighters didn't realize that the clerics still have access to any spells they didn't consume previously. Spell slots don't vanish at the end of the day, but they can be refilled/revised each day. It's entirely possible for a cleric to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when they meditated with some incense of meditation.
Of course, if an ogre is an issue, I suppose we're talking about a level when healing via consumables is really expensive. I hope the Fighter doesn't plan to melee with him. :P
"Oh, so you have spell slots?"
"Yeah, it's pretty great. See, they don't vanish at the end of the day, and can be refilled or revised each day. It's entirely possible for me to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when I meditated with some incense of meditation."
"Oh, wow...that's pretty cool."
"Yeah, it is, isn't it?"
"So, how many spells do you have right now?"
"Oh, none, I used them all and have to-*HURRRK*"
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"What are you doing?"
"Praying, in order for my god to grant me my daily spells."
"Oh, how long does that take?"
"About an hour."
"Oh...what about that ogre over there?"
"He can wait."
"He...doesn't look like he wants to wait."
"Well, that's not really fair, our GM wouldn't be that mea-*HURRK*"
*This message brought to you by Fighters*
What amusing propaganda. Perhaps the Fighters didn't realize that the clerics still have access to any spells they didn't consume previously. Spell slots don't vanish at the end of the day, but they can be refilled/revised each day. It's entirely possible for a cleric to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when they meditated with some incense of meditation.
Of course, if an ogre is an issue, I suppose we're talking about a level when healing via consumables is really expensive. I hope the Fighter doesn't plan to melee with him. :P
"Oh, so you have spell slots?"
"Yeah, it's pretty great. See, they don't vanish at the end of the day, and can be refilled or revised each day. It's entirely possible for me to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when I meditated with some incense of meditation."
"Oh, wow...that's pretty cool."
"Yeah, it is, isn't it?"
"So, how many spells do you have right now?"
"Oh, none, I used them all and have to-*HURRRK*"
Amusing propaganda, and also apparently an insult to people who play Clerics. You must be proud of yourself right now.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Amusing propaganda, and also apparently an insult to people who play Clerics. You must be proud of yourself right now.
About as insulting as the usual "fighters are teh sux0rz" posts.
Don't get butthurt, just buff a fighter and let him do the heavy lifting for you.
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Hey, what about Monks?
*head explodes*
Oh wait, I took Iron Will and Indomitable Faith.
Nevermind, I made my save.
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I love playing plain fighter, it's like driving one of those bad ass muscle cars from the 70s.
We currently play a low-magic campaign and I just love being the guy that can take any/most threats to the face with my 25 AC.
I walk around in full-plate, with this big winter cloak hiding most of my armor and gear (no helmet). After this hard day of adventuring were the wizard is out of big spells, the cleric is out of juice too and the rogue is badly wounded, out of the blues this bandit stand menacingly in the middle of the road asking for our hard earned gold. He says: "hey I have friends up there (point up at the nearby hill) and they will shoot you if you do not comply!"
I decide to play along (actually took a few ranks in bluff): "Please good sir! Let us go through without harm! I have all the money you want right here! Let me bring it to you! (I dismount my mule and start walking toward the bandit).
Once I am about 10 feet away from the poor bastard I stop dead in my track, remove my cloak and charge at him with my falshion (Critical hit!), Slice the guy in two, get shoot by the archers uphill (everything bounce off my armor). Next round I walk uphill throw my falshion to the first archer I see (throw anything FTW), he drops on the ground bleeding. Then the other archer tries in vain to shoot me again. I charge at him once I reach the top of the hill and grapple him, then I pummel his face while he as no way to retaliate (Full plate armor come equipped with those "handy" gauntlets!)
4 Round later (24 second for our characters) all my poor battered companions see is my character, walking down the hill with two bodies on my shoulders while whistling.
You cannot get that feeling of satisfaction with a wizard.
*snip* Cool Encounter *snip*
You cannot get that feeling of satisfaction with a wizard.
Without detracting from the fun awesomeness of that particular example, and without trying to start a fight, I honestly think you can, if for different reasons. :)
I can think of moments like that either I or my my friends have had with characters of all classes. Fighters are neat, but they don't hold a monopoly on crowning moments of awesome. :)
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I just hear the usual arguments I hear when it comes to Wizards because it all boils down to the same thing.
1: The Wizard in question always has just the right spell memorized.
2: All the monsters are perfectly suited for that perfect set of spells that the Wizard memorized that day.
3: All the monsters fail their saves.
4: Party auto stops whenever the Wizard is out of spells in order to rest and memorize.
And yet the the fighter always manages to fail his saves, can't even remember his own name during a social situation, is always somehow up against every situation that would point out his weakness, which all classes have by the way but those usually get skipped, and is outclassed be every other class out there.
Hmmmmmm.....
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Amusing propaganda, and also apparently an insult to people who play Clerics. You must be proud of yourself right now.
Yes, because never ever in the entire history of the game has a spellcaster managed to expend ALL of allowed spells per day.
There's some propaganda going on, but it's not of the anti-spellcaster variety. It's you guys pretending that it's so g@#!!!n inconceivable that a spellcaster might not have a useful spell left over.
I have a fighter/ranger (primarily fighter) whose weapon of choice is a barstool, who is a blast to play.Unfortunately, as she's leveling, there being no way to enchant ordinary items as weapons is causing her to use actual weapons now. My GM allowed me to put oil of magic weapon on the stool, but I think even that's a stretch and I am not sure how to find a reasonable way to create a magic stool of bar brawling, for example. Although it would be awesome.
Magic (Great) Club that looks like a bar stool and can be used as one?
It's entirely possible for a cleric to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when they meditated with some incense of meditation.
You do realize the Maximized Effect disappears after 24 hours right?
I have a fighter/ranger (primarily fighter) whose weapon of choice is a barstool, who is a blast to play.Unfortunately, as she's leveling, there being no way to enchant ordinary items as weapons is causing her to use actual weapons now. My GM allowed me to put oil of magic weapon on the stool, but I think even that's a stretch and I am not sure how to find a reasonable way to create a magic stool of bar brawling, for example. Although it would be awesome.
Magic (Great) Club that looks like a bar stool and can be used as one?
You do realize the Maximized Effect disappears after 24 hours right?It's entirely possible for a cleric to have maximized spells prepped from a year ago when they meditated with some incense of meditation.
Yes, I'm well aware that you do not continue to benefit from the ability to prepare new spells as maximized for free after 24 hours. However, spells that you have already prepped as maximized are unchanged. If there was no duration on the incense, burning it once would allow you to continue preparing maximized spells for free forever. Instead, you get 24 hours of maximized preparation, which means at best you're looking at about 2 preps of maximization (as long as the effect of the incense lasts).
However, you do not suddenly lose your spells that you have prepared. You have maximized spells prepared, you retain those spell until they are expended or lost through some other means.
Actually somewhere it has been said that the spells lose the Maximized Effect after 24 hours.
Actually somewhere it has been said that the spells lose the Maximized Effect after 24 hours.
That's fine. I'm going to stick with the core rules on this one, wherein spells are locked in once prepared. I could see it being an issue for oracles who cannot prepare spells and have to add the metamagic to the spell on the fly, but once you prepare a spell it's prepared and does not go away.
The Fighter is one of my favourite classes in Pathfinder, which is a big change from 3.5e. With all the archetypes and different feat paths, there's so much you can do with them.
The way feats are balanced, and the fact that feats like cleave and vital strike don't stack actually forces you to make big decisions, both at character creation and in actual fights.
They're still great for dipping, and that's fine, but what's important is that there are appropriate rewards for those who choose to stick around for the long haul - which I wind up doing with most of my fighters.
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I play fighter because you can do so many awesome martial builds with them.
Get all the trip feats, pole-arm, lots of dex and AoO's, and then combat patrol. Unless it's invisible, out of reach in the air or underground Gandalf's got NUTHIN on your YOU SHALL NOT PASS
I play fighter because you can do so many awesome martial builds with them.
Get all the trip feats, pole-arm, lots of dex and AoO's, and then combat patrol. Unless it's invisible, out of reach in the air or underground Gandalf's got NUTHIN on your YOU SHALL NOT PASS
I dunno. Willing failing his save vs resilient sphere to block off a bridge was pretty clever on Gandalf's part.
First and foremost all of you are having badwrongfun!!! ;)
Fighters are great. Certainly I would like more skills but when I play wizards I miss the BAB and the hit points. I have yet to get bored in combat with any class accept my 2e bard that spent most combat unconscious.
Actually somewhere it has been said that the spells lose the Maximized Effect after 24 hours.That's fine. I'm going to stick with the core rules on this one, wherein spells are locked in once prepared. I could see it being an issue for oracles who cannot prepare spells and have to add the metamagic to the spell on the fly, but once you prepare a spell it's prepared and does not go away.
Personally I agree. I am just saying that the effects are supposedly lost because the Maximized Feats effects are a result of the Incense and as such is lost after 24 hours.
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Sounds like a dead man walking from here. :PThe whole Pigeon holing is done only if one looks at it from an Optimization standpoint.
And I have a Swashbuckling Fighter who wears Silk Ceremonial Armour and uses Weapon Finesse.
Of course this is made using Rolled Stats.
Depends on what he rolled...I could probably do something pretty neat with a 18/18/17/16/14/12 roll and that concept. What would really impress is if he did that with a 15 point buy.
Depends on what he rolled...I could probably do something pretty neat with a 18/18/17/16/14/12 roll and that concept. What would really impress is if he did that with a 15 point buy.Sounds like a dead man walking from here. :PThe whole Pigeon holing is done only if one looks at it from an Optimization standpoint.
And I have a Swashbuckling Fighter who wears Silk Ceremonial Armour and uses Weapon Finesse.
Of course this is made using Rolled Stats.
True. I tend to think about things in terms of standard point buy, but some truly goofy things can occur with rolling. No jest, I once was assisting a new player in rolling up their first PC (a Bard). This was years ago, and we were using the standard 4d6 take highest 3 from 3E at the time.
Her statistics were 17, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18. I kid you not. Had I not rolled the things myself, with my own dice, I'd never have believed it. We got everyone at the table to look at her crazy rolls, for certainly it would never happen again! XD
Depends on what he rolled...I could probably do something pretty neat with a 18/18/17/16/14/12 roll and that concept. What would really impress is if he did that with a 15 point buy.Sounds like a dead man walking from here. :PThe whole Pigeon holing is done only if one looks at it from an Optimization standpoint.
And I have a Swashbuckling Fighter who wears Silk Ceremonial Armour and uses Weapon Finesse.
Of course this is made using Rolled Stats.
True. I tend to think about things in terms of standard point buy, but some truly goofy things can occur with rolling. No jest, I once was assisting a new player in rolling up their first PC (a Bard). This was years ago, and we were using the standard 4d6 take highest 3 from 3E at the time.
Her statistics were 17, 17, 17, 17, 18, 18. I kid you not. Had I not rolled the things myself, with my own dice, I'd never have believed it. We got everyone at the table to look at her crazy rolls, for certainly it would never happen again! XD
Mine was 17,16,16,14,12,10 before adjustments.
Whenever I use a Point Buy I usually go for a STR-based Swashbuckler and avoid Weapon Finesse. Though I have built a Fighter/Rogue using a 15 point buy.
i rarely play fighters, and Sven Jotunson was my last single classed fighter. he was a walking armory and didn't specialize in any one weapon. he leeched a lot of spells and used a lot of potions, oils, and alchemical substances.
but most of my pseudo martials were 3/4 bab caster hybrids who had a light armor class, a few buffs, maybe a self heal here and there and decent damage capacity. despite missing that 3rd attack that would clearly miss.
buffing spells make up for the reduced accuracy and most 3/4 bab classes have other stuff they can stack for even more accuracy.
Of late I've been playing a Samurai and a Fighter in two different campaigns.
Both are fun to play although for the specific builds I'm playing the Samurai has been an unstoppable beast whereas the Fighter is much more focused on battlefield control (although he's does far and away the most damage of the party).
I like fighters (and rogues for that matter) because I can connect much more easily with a class that relies on wit and muscle rather than supernatural abilities. Also, all of the members of our group tend to gravitate towards mechanics they like and I enjoy and excel at playing full-armored full-bab types. The squishier party members know they can count on my characters to be on the front lines, crushing skulls and keeping the enemies at bay.
Of late I've been playing a Samurai and a Fighter in two different campaigns.
Both are fun to play although for the specific builds I'm playing the Samurai has been an unstoppable beast whereas the Fighter is much more focused on battlefield control (although he's does far and away the most damage of the party).
I like fighters (and rogues for that matter) because I can connect much more easily with a class that relies on wit and muscle rather than supernatural abilities. Also, all of the members of our group tend to gravitate towards mechanics they like and I enjoy and excel at playing full-armored full-bab types. The squishier party members know they can count on my characters to be on the front lines, crushing skulls and keeping the enemies at bay.
3/4 bab classes contribute just as much damage with stacking buffs as a fighter. it just takes time to stack the buffs first. and they have other contributions a fighter has a more difficult time bringing.
Usually my Fighters focus their Skills for money making and exploration. My Fighters have been our parties primary source of income for around 20 campaigns now.
Weapon Specialization is a trap. for a mere +2 to damage per attack, you are restricting yourself to one weapon choice. the higher feats in the chain are also just as trap laden. 4 feats for +2 to hit and +4 to damage with 1 weapon is effectively sacrificing versatility and begging your DM to accomodate your weapon in the loot, which also encourages the antagonistic DMs to deny you said weapon.
3/4 bab classes contribute just as much damage with stacking buffs as a fighter. it just takes time to stack the buffs first. and they have other contributions a fighter has a more difficult time bringing.
Very true. But those require spending actions during those first crucial rounds of combat as well as limited resources (e.g., spells). Also, the 3/4 BAB classes tend to lack in staying power (in terms of hp or AC) and are more susceptible to combat maneuvers.
None of this is to disparage our 3/4 base-attacking friends in any way. Instead I just want to state clearly that they fill a different niche then the full bab types.
3/4 bab classes contribute just as much damage with stacking buffs as a fighter. it just takes time to stack the buffs first. and they have other contributions a fighter has a more difficult time bringing.Very true. But those require spending actions during those first crucial rounds of combat as well as limited resources (e.g., spells). Also, the 3/4 BAB classes tend to lack in staying power (in terms of hp or AC) and are more susceptible to combat maneuvers.
None of this is to disparage our 3/4 base-attacking friends in any way. Instead I just want to state clearly that they fill a different niche then the full bab types.
a 3/4 bab class can fill in for the fighter in the short term. but if you are going to be resting when the caster runs out of spells anyway. it becomes more advantageous to play a 3/4 bab when you have fewer but bigger encounters per day. such as merging all 4 daily encounters into one mass fight. a corner case, but one that frequently applies with weekly william.
and by contributing your own buffing and healing spells, you are saving the cleric a few slots to allow them something interesting, or to extend the adventure day. where a fighter due to having no casting, must leech spells from others and reduce the economy of healing.
and monster AC was balanced around 3/4 bab hitting on an average roll
3/4 BAB are usually made around the concept of a Support Combatant.
On Healing:
Usually a Wand is the best for Major healing and done outside of combat.
A Spell or Potion is more of a Immediate trouble use. Say the Wizard got hit a few times and is quickly approaching death.
Still the more who are able to use or craft the wands/potions the merrier.
3/4 BAB are usually made around the concept of a Support Combatant.
On Healing:
Usually a Wand is the best for Major healing and done outside of combat.
A Spell or Potion is more of a Immediate trouble use. Say the Wizard got hit a few times and is quickly approaching death.Still the more who are able to use or craft the wands/potions the merrier.
the wand of CLW is indeed cheap, and pretty decent out of combat, but the amount of standard actions it takes heavily delays your progession at the higher levels. and at 5+5HP a charge, and how high your hit points end up at the higher levels. it's going to take quite a lot of charges between fights, and 750GP per 275HP is going to add up pretty quickly. it may even slightly delay the magical gear you acquire.
As a DM who has been often tasked with bringing new players into the fold, I love the Fighter class. No class is simpler, easier to play, and bereft of complications as the Fighter. Even Paizo has managed to keep the Fighter the all-around best class for novice players.
Once they get a feel for the game and its rules, most of the new players graduate to Rangers or Druids...but I get a few who prefer to go Paladin.
My really advanced players? The super-smart ones who catch on to the rules quickly and show a real aptitude for the game? They go on to play spell-casters, or, if they are "scary and dangerous" smart, they play Monks (and in doing so, generally make a mockery of the most dangerous encounters I can concoct...is the Monk class ever going to be brought under control?)
playing a fighter who swings a weapon and does nothing else while others help me with the math is easy.
but i have seen people who get confused on the math of their fighters. and they are no less complicated than a rogue, barbarian, or ranger. in fact, they have the same complication on the grounds that they are choosing talents, and have to master the situations for which those talents apply.
a 3/4 bab class can fill in for the fighter in the short term. but if you are going to be resting when the caster runs out of spells anyway. it becomes more advantageous to play a 3/4 bab when you have fewer but bigger encounters per day.
Judging from the boards this is a very common way to play and there is nothing wrong with this style of game. In this case you are absolutely correct in saying that classes that can spend their resources quickly will outshine classes not based on spendable resources (notably fighters and rogues).
In the campaign in which I'm playing a fighter we usually expect that rests will be few and far between since the plot isn't going to sit around and twiddle its thumbs while we sleep a night to regain spells. If you play a 3/4 bab class in this campaign you had better spend your resources wisely or you might not have enough to make it through a major fight at the end.
a 3/4 bab class can fill in for the fighter in the short term. but if you are going to be resting when the caster runs out of spells anyway. it becomes more advantageous to play a 3/4 bab when you have fewer but bigger encounters per day.Judging from the boards this is a very common way to play and there is nothing wrong with this style of game. In this case you are absolutely correct in saying that classes that can spend their resources quickly will outshine classes not based on spendable resources (notably fighters and rogues).
In the campaign in which I'm playing a fighter we usually expect that rests will be few and far between since the plot isn't going to sit around and twiddle its thumbs while we sleep a night to regain spells. If you play a 3/4 bab class in this campaign you had better spend your resources wisely or you might not have enough to make it through a major fight at the end.
it depends on the DM, the fighter isn't quite the energizer bunny himself. he might have more hit points, but has no way to independantly heal them and no means of condition removal. just about every caster has access to either the cure line, the infernal healing line, or both.
instead of using his own spell slots to heal or buff himself, he is leeching off the casters.
the wand of CLW is cheap, but the wand of infernal healing, though taking 5 times the number of rounds, is cheaper.
the fighter can't control his exact pace independently. while the 3/4 bab guy can spend less spells on the mooks and save his big guns for the major fights.
with Weekly William, he does fewer fights per day, but they tend to last longer. such as APL+6 fights designed for a 10 character party, made up of dangerous CR-2-CR+2 foes. in other words, for a 4 person party, APL+12. and he does 2.5 per day on average. so being able to get a downed ally back into the fight expediently matters.