Attack Rolls v Combat Maneuvers

[twiggyleaf]

In the PFSRD attack roll with a melee weapon is stated as being BAB + STR Mod + Size Mod.
(Surely Weapon Enhancement - including +1 attack for masterwork - should be added to this as well?)

CMD is also stated as being BAB + STR Mod + Special Size Mod
(Should Weapon Enhancement be added to this roll?)

If I have a strength +2 and 0 BAB and I attack with a masterwork sickle, so that attack should be d20+3 (STR2 and Mwk1) Vs AC of opponent. (Size is Medium)

The rules state that to perform a combat maneuver, you must make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. So, would this be the same?

Let's say I want to TRIP - Do I still add the enhancement bonus?
e.g. BAB + Str + Mwk for a roll of d20+3 v CMD. Is this right? (I know there will be an AoO)

At next level I want to take Improved Trip, which will negate the AoO and add +2. By the time I get this I will be BAB +1.
So at 2nd Level, I make normal attack to damage:
Attk d20+4 (BAB1, STR2, Mwk1) v AC for 1d6+2 dmg
Or choose to trip:
Trip d20+6 (BAB1, STR2, Mwk1, ImpTrp2) v CMD to knock prone if successful.
(can this trip also deal damage or is it an either/or scenario)

I would really appreciate some insight from experienced Pathfinder Players. I come from a D&D 3.5 background and am not accustomed to the CMB/CMD options but it seems to me that Pathfinder has left out the "ENHANCEMENT" section in their attack roll summary.

[Phasics]

You can only add the enchament of the weapon if the weapon lists the combat manuver under "special"

e.g. a +3 Scythe which has the Trip special property allows you to add +3 to the Trip Combat Manuver, you cannot however add +3 if your doing a bull rush with a +3 Scythe

[twiggyleaf]

That makes sense. The Sickle has a "TRIP" property so I presume I could therefore add the +1 for masterwork quality to a trip attempt but not to a bull rush or any other combat maneuver.

If using the Trip combat maneuver, does that automatically negate damage dealt?

[eakratz]

I think the enhancement bonus works for any maneuver which you use the weapon whether or not it has a property like trip or disarm. So with that sickle, I believe if used to disarm, sunder, and maybe dirty trick you would get the enhancement bonus. Feinting I'm not so sure about but I'd allow it.

[Mucronis]

weapon attacks are: Base attack bonus + Strength modifier (dexterity if finessed or ranged) + size modifier + weapon enhancement + Weapon Focus + moral or profane or blessed and/or other misc bonuses.

"CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver." This is on the Paizo PRD.

The trip weapon FAQ:

Trip Weapons: If you want to make a trip combat maneuver, do you have to use a weapon with the trip special feature?

No. When making a trip combat maneuver, you don't have to use a weapon with the trip special feature--you can use any weapon. For example, you can trip with a longsword or an unarmed strike, even though those weapons don't have the trip special feature.
Note that there is an advantage to using a weapon with the trip special feature (a.k.a. a "trip weapon") when making a trip combat maneuver: if your trip attack fails by 10 or more, you can drop the trip weapon instead of being knocked prone.

On a related note, you don't have to use a weapon with the disarm special feature (a.k.a. a "disarm weapon") when making a disarm combat maneuver--you can use any weapon.

Note: This is a revision of this FAQ entry based on a Paizo blog about combat maneuvers with weapons. The previous version of this FAQ stated that using a trip weapon was the only way you could apply weapon enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus bonuses, and other such bonuses to the trip combat maneuver roll. The clarification in that blog means any weapon used to trip applies these bonuses when making a trip combat maneuver, so this FAQ was updated to omit the "only trip weapons let you apply these bonuses" limitation.

—Sean K Reynolds, 03/15/11

link to Trip weapon FAQ

Edit, changed weapon Specialization to Focus =)

[Gwen Smith]

According to FAQ, if I have Weapon Finesse but not Agile Maneuvers, I can use a light Trip weapon to use my Dex for my CMB instead of my strength.(http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9ojt)

So for the inverse situation, if I have Agile Maneuvers but not Weapon Finesse, can I use a Trip weapon and still add my Dex and weapon bonuses to my CMB?

[Bigtuna]

Trip weapon have one MAJOR advantage over non-trip weapons - add a weapon cord (2 cp) and you can retrieve a dropped trip weapon as a swift action. But then again if you plan to trip things - better specialize in it so you never have to drop your weapon...

With the enhancement Dueling-PF (trip) "trip" weapon kinda became an enhancement you out on your weapons instead a feature of the weapon it self. (since you really need the enhancement to be a GREAT tripper)

[Lyarie]

This discussion has come up before and been answered but I don't know where the thread is. The gist was that, if the CMB is something that you are using a weapon to do (ex: tripping with a whip or disarming with your rapier) you can use your weapon enhancement. If you cannot justify how your are using your weapon (ex: grapple with a dagger) then you can't use the enhancement.

[Defraeter]

Paizo Blog Combat Maneuvers

[twiggyleaf]

Thanks for all the insights so far.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether damage can also be inflicted while using the TRIP maneuver?

[Bigtuna]

There a diffent ways:

Felling Smash - When you make a single attack and use PA you can trip as a swift action - damage and trip as a standard action.

Greater Trip - now the target provokes AoO when you trip him = hit him do damage...

But normally no dam on a trip maneuver.