
Matt2VK |
How do you tell if a Familiar can use UMD / Wands?
Started a thread in the advice forums asking for advice on the different types of Familiars that could use wands and it's starting to turn into a rule question. So starting a thread here -
So, according to RAW (or even RAI if it can be backed up), how do you tell if a Familiar can use the casters UMD to use wands?

Grick |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

How do you tell if a Familiar can use UMD / Wands?
Wands: "Wands use the spell trigger activation method... To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area."
Spell Trigger: "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken."
Familiars - "Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use."
If it can hold the wand, speak the command word, and it has the appropriate combination of UMD ranks, Charisma, or master's UMD ranks (plus it's Charisma), then it can activate the wand, assuming the GM doesn't rule that UMD is beyond the familiar's ability to use.
YMMV, ask your GM, expect table variation.
-edit-
Unless you're in PFS, in which case you're limited to a set list of four.
PFS FAQ: "The only exception to this would be an brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar gained with the Improved Familiar feat. One could reasonably face either of these wielding a wand or wearing a circlet of persuasion in combat, and after investing a feat to gain their service, they are not limited by the same restrictions as normal bonded creatures like animals"

Mort the Cleverly Named |

Anything that can manipulate the item and speak should be fine. Wands only require that you 1) point the wand at the intended target, and 2) speak a command word. Being able to point the wand is going to end up being a GM call, but one probably shouldn't be too harsh about it. Paizo has published a bird that uses scrolls, so pulling this off should be no trouble for Ravens or Parrots, or a talking Monkey or Octopus.
EDIT: PFS is so weird. Imps can use items, but Mephits can't? Yet another example anti-Inner Sphere prejudice, if you ask me.

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Anything that can manipulate the item and speak should be fine. Wands only require that you 1) point the wand at the intended target, and 2) speak a command word. Being able to point the wand is going to end up being a GM call, but one probably shouldn't be too harsh about it. Paizo has published a bird that uses scrolls, so pulling this off should be no trouble for Ravens or Parrots, or a talking Monkey or Octopus.
EDIT: PFS is so weird. Imps can use items, but Mephits can't? Yet another example anti-Inner Sphere racism.
Ravens and Parrots fail in the manipulation requirement. Mephits fail in the speech requirement.

Grick |

Ravens and Parrots fail in the manipulation requirement.
Do you have a rules-based reason for that? Or are you (incorrectly) assuming that real-world ravens can't fashion tools and toys out of sticks and stuff?
Mephits fail in the speech requirement.
Mephits know common, in addition to their elemental language. Is there any reason they can't speak?

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LazarX wrote:Ravens and Parrots fail in the manipulation requirement.Do you have a rules-based reason for that? Or are you (incorrectly) assuming that real-world ravens can't fashion tools and toys out of sticks and stuff?
LazarX wrote:Mephits fail in the speech requirement.Mephits know common, in addition to their elemental language. Is there any reason they can't speak?
Ravens don't have hands, and their real world manipulation of objects does not encompass things on the physical size and weight of the average wand.
Mephits understand Common. There's no indication in the bestiary description that they can speak it or anything else though.

Grick |

Ravens don't have hands, and their real world manipulation of objects does not encompass things on the physical size and weight of the average wand.
A wand is 6 to 12 inches long, 1/4 inch thick, and weighs no more than 1 ounce.
Here's a video of a Crow using a much larger stick. As you can see, he can grab it with both his beak and his claw, and it would be much easier with a thinner stick.
Mephits understand Common. There's no indication in the bestiary description that they can speak it or anything else though.
The same is true with Devils, Giants, Lizardfolk, Trolls, etc.
Since the rules aren't explicit, it's up to a GM to rule on it. Some GMs will be unreasonable and say monsters can't talk, despite knowing multiple languages, explicitly speaking to PCs in published adventures, etc.

Pirate |

Yar.
Regarding languages known and speaking Mephits: I'm with Grick on this one, and will use RAW to support it.
In the bestiary, at the very beginning, there are a few pages dedicated to describing the stat block and what each area means, collectively called the Introduction. You can see it in the PRD HERE
Languages: The languages most commonly spoken by the creature are listed here. For unusual creatures, you can swap out the languages known for other choices as needed. A creature with a higher-than-normal Intelligence score receives the appropriate number of bonus languages.
It specifically states that listed languages can be spoken.
Second, IF and when a creature can understand but not speak a language, this entry will specifically call it out. For example: Vegypygmies and the Tarrasque.
There is nothing to indicate that Mephits cannot speak. To the contrary, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the can and do speak. They know and can speak Common plus an appropriate elemental tongue. There is no reason for them to be excluded from using wand, and if they are banned from doing so in PFS, I am baffled as to why.
~P

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Yar.
Regarding languages known and speaking Mephits: I'm with Grick on this one, and will use RAW to support it.
In the bestiary, at the very beginning, there are a few pages dedicated to describing the stat block and what each area means, collectively called the Introduction. You can see it in the PRD HERE
languages wrote:Languages: The languages most commonly spoken by the creature are listed here. For unusual creatures, you can swap out the languages known for other choices as needed. A creature with a higher-than-normal Intelligence score receives the appropriate number of bonus languages.It specifically states that listed languages can be spoken.
Second, IF and when a creature can understand but not speak a language, this entry will specifically call it out. For example: Vegypygmies and the Tarrasque.
There is nothing to indicate that Mephits cannot speak. to the contrary, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that the can and do speak. They know and can speak Common plus an appropriate elemental tongue. There is no reason for them to be excluded from using wand, and if they are banned from doing so in PFS, I am baffled as to why.
~P
I +1 your Yar. Mephits can speak. QED.

Rerednaw |
Matt2VK wrote:How do you tell if a Familiar can use UMD / Wands?Wands: "Wands use the spell trigger activation method... To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for nonhumanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area."
Spell Trigger: "Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it's even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken."
Familiars - "Skills: For each skill in which either the master or the familiar has ranks, use either the normal skill ranks for an animal of that type or the master's skill ranks, whichever is better. In either case, the familiar uses its own ability modifiers. Regardless of a familiar's total skill modifiers, some skills may remain beyond the familiar's ability to use."
If it can hold the wand, speak the command word, and it has the appropriate combination of UMD ranks, Charisma, or master's UMD ranks (plus it's Charisma), then it can activate the wand, assuming the GM doesn't rule that UMD is beyond the familiar's ability to use.
YMMV, ask your GM, expect table variation.
-edit-
Unless you're in PFS, in which case you're limited to a set list of four.PFS FAQ: "The only exception to this would be an brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar gained with the Improved Familiar feat. One could reasonably face either of these wielding a wand or wearing a circlet of persuasion in combat, and after investing a feat to gain their service, they are not limited by the same restrictions as normal bonded creatures like animals"
Hi new at this so sorry if I am missing something.
Where is the Improved Familiar exception? I just followed the link and the FAQ starts with "It is intended...animal companions and familiars cannot activate magic items."
The remainder of the section addresses exceptions for holding/wearing. But activation is never explicitly stated. "Creatures...with an asterisk (*) are able to grasp and carry one object...though they may not be able to use such items effectively..."
Is there a ruling or post by Mike on this? (For Society play.)
Thanks! I keep finding posts that quote the FAQ, but not the section in the FAQ.. :(

Grick |

Where is the Improved Familiar exception? I just follwed the link and the FAQ starts with "It is intended...animal companions and familiars cannot activate magic items."
(snip)
Is there a ruling or post by Mike on this? (For Society play.)
I don't have it handy, but the Biped (hands) section of the chart (from Animal Archive) might say they can use those things.
The PFS FAQ used to say something like this:
The only exception to this would be an brownie, faerie dragon, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit familiar gained with the Improved Familiar feat. One could reasonably face either of these wielding a wand or wearing a circlet of persuasion in combat, and after investing a feat to gain their service, they are not limited by the same restrictions as normal bonded creatures like animals (whether treated like animals or magical beasts and regardless of Int scores).
And I (finally) found this post by Mike Brock, who unhelpfully left any sort of key words out of his post that would have made the search much easier:
Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD. I will get it added to the FAQ. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Which is in response to a question about the faerie dragon.

Hawktitan |

Personally I'd rule that normal familiars can't use wands.
It's merely a balancing issue - if a raven (or a parrot) can use a wand it makes them leaps and bounds better then any other familiar and one should simply never choose anything else. It also weakens the choice of taking improved familiar feat.
If you get the improved familiar feat then most familiars can use wands.
Neat, tidy and keeps the balance. At least in my opinion.

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Within the RaW, a speaking familiar sharing its master's ranks in UMD can indeed set off a wand, although they tend to be low-Charisma, so the wand use is likely to be rather unreliable. I agree that it's a rather powerful option, but I'd allow it. It tends to work out in play, as enemies that would ignore a familiar ordinarily are likely to start taking an immediate interest in familiars who are using wands...
As for ravens and parrots being better familiars: having an inconspicuous flying scout/messenger who can converse with the entire party right from level 1 always struck me as better than a +2/+3 to any one skill (or even saving throw) already.