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Faerie dragon legal for PFS?


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

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I can't really figure it out, but does the faerie dragon require a boon to use in PFS?

***

yes, it is not on the normal list of familiars available from the additional resources page. it is in the bestiary 3, and none of the creatures available for improved familiar from that book are legal unless you have a boon.

Osirion ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Sydney aka Luke_Parry

The short answer is yes, it requires a boon (and I know for a fact that there is one out there for it).

The slightly longer answer is that it is not on the list of 'allowed' familiars from Bestiary 3, nor is it on the list of improved familiars from Ultimate Magic, and so it is thus not 'open access', unless you have the chronicle sheet that allows it (in which case you need to bring a copy of Bestiary 3 with you when you use it).

I hope that helps!


Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)


On a possibly related note, does anyone know if you get to pick the spells it knows, or does it come with the spells on it's stat block?

***

it comes with the spells on its stat block. note it is NOT a sorcerer, it just cast spells as one, all of those spells are spell like abilities, not actual spells.

edit:
although i am not so sure that you cannot choose different feats, based on what has been mentioned before on animal feats. seems like if you can find animals without armor training as feat choices, replacedby some other feat, you should be able to say the same with familiars.

Osirion ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Sydney aka Luke_Parry

I concur that, in PFS, it comes with the spells in its stat-block, and *only* those spells - you cannot change them.

That said, it definitely *casts* spells *as a 3rd level sorcerer* - they are not spell-like abilities (it has a separate section noting its spell-like ability).

Osirion ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Sydney aka Luke_Parry

Also, generally, if you are looking for a group of people to run a PFS game with, and you don't have a local group, you can always try running it as a PbP on the Paizo boards - There are probably a dozen or so PFS games being run as we speak.

***

Luke_Parry wrote:

I concur that, in PFS, it comes with the spells in its stat-block, and *only* those spells - you cannot change them.

That said, it definitely *casts* spells *as a 3rd level sorcerer* - they are not spell-like abilities (it has a separate section noting its spell-like ability).

ah thank you for correcting me. i have 2 pfs characters with familiars and i was getting this one confused with the Azata, Lyrakien. She very much simulates the spellcasting ability of a 3rd level bard with her spell like abilities (except ventriloquism) without actually saying so, i was thinking (incorrectly) the faerie dragon was the same.

Osirion ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Australia—Sydney aka Luke_Parry

No worries! Happy to help :-)

I agree that most of the improved familiars available out there have *only* spell-like abilities (some, such as the Lyrakien Azata, having quite extensive lists); it just so happens that the Faerie Dragon is an exception.

Grand Lodge ***

Argh... Wanted one for my wizard!

Grand Lodge ***

Wait a minute...

Quote:

Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 and all improved familiars on page 251 are legal;

Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.

AHA! I see where I made my mistake now. I'll be in the corner pouting. ;(

***

Thomas Graham wrote:

Wait a minute...

Quote:

Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 and all improved familiars on page 251 are legal;

Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.
AHA! I see where I made my mistake now. I'll be in the corner pouting. ;(

nothing stops you from running the scenario to give the cert to your wizard, does it?

Grand Lodge ***

asthyril wrote:
Thomas Graham wrote:

Wait a minute...

Quote:

Familiars: all familiars in Chapter 2 and all improved familiars on page 251 are legal;

Spells: all spells are legal for play except those which grant a spellblight (such as curse of magic negation or steal voice);
Other: No content from Chapter 2 is legal for play except new familiars; Words of Power are also forbidden.
AHA! I see where I made my mistake now. I'll be in the corner pouting. ;(
nothing stops you from running the scenario to give the cert to your wizard, does it?

Except KNOWING which one to ask to be added to the play list! And I'm betting a season 4 scenario, which we are trying to keep light right now. We have TWO chosen for the next two months.

*

It is a Season 4 scenario. And I'm going to have to wait a while to apply it to anything that can cast spells, because I played it with a Barbarian. Dumb smash not understand how hand-wavy humans cause Dumb pain! Dumb only understand SMASH! RAAAAAARGH!

Anyway, now I have to run it. Later. Grr.


theonetruetom wrote:
I'm going to have to wait a while to apply it to anything that can cast spells, because I played it with a Barbarian.

take eldritch heritage: arcane bloodline.

your faery dragon familiar will probably have more HPs than any other familiar.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Marthian wrote:

Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

I feel your pain. Rey (sage bloodline) has a Charisma of 12, and just hit 5th level. He'd have to spend his 7th, 9th, and 11th level feats to get it. (skill focus, cha bump then Heritage then improved familiar.)

Funny thing is, with him being modeled after Harry Dresden, a faerie dragon would be a natural 'Bob' sidekick.

Grand Lodge ***

Matthew Morris wrote:
Marthian wrote:

Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

I feel your pain. Rey (sage bloodline) has a Charisma of 12, and just hit 5th level. He'd have to spend his 7th, 9th, and 11th level feats to get it. (skill focus, cha bump then Heritage then improved familiar.)

Funny thing is, with him being modeled after Harry Dresden, a faerie dragon would be a natural 'Bob' sidekick.

Hmm.. I'd say a 'West Highlands Dogasaurus' would be a better familar.. but you can't get 'Oh wow..that is a big puppy' sized familiars. :D

*

Quandary wrote:
theonetruetom wrote:
I'm going to have to wait a while to apply it to anything that can cast spells, because I played it with a Barbarian.

take eldritch heritage: arcane bloodline.

your faery dragon familiar will probably have more HPs than any other familiar.

Dumb would require putting all his points into Charisma. It was my second dump stat, along with intelligence. Half-orc sorcerors aren't really optimal, imo.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

Removed a few off-topic posts about whether or not something is or isn't cheating. The spoiled information has been removed, so let's keep the conversation on-topic please.

Grand Lodge *

Marthian wrote:

Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

Run it as a play by post game on the forums...


Helaman wrote:
Marthian wrote:

Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

Run it as a play by post game on the forums...

I'd like to, but I'm really skeptical on running online. On a program, it sounds like I'll have to spend money, and play by post sounds like it could take awhile (and then there's the map issue I don't know how to solve.)

***

3 people marked this as a favorite.

THE SCENARIO IN QUESTION IS CALLED

NAME:
SPIKEY DEATH DEATH and the WRONGLY TEMPLATED HORSES of DOOM!(tm)

*

Marthian wrote:


I'd like to, but I'm really skeptical on running online. On a program, it sounds like I'll have to spend money, and play by post sounds like it could take awhile (and then there's the map issue I don't know how to solve.)

I wouldn't say that online play requires any money for the program. Most of the table tops people use are 100% free. In fact the only one I can think of that charges the GM is d20pro. Check out maptools or roll20. Both are totally free.

Andoran ***

Lab_Rat wrote:
Marthian wrote:


I'd like to, but I'm really skeptical on running online. On a program, it sounds like I'll have to spend money, and play by post sounds like it could take awhile (and then there's the map issue I don't know how to solve.)
I wouldn't say that online play requires any money for the program. Most of the table tops people use are 100% free. In fact the only one I can think of that charges the GM is d20pro. Check out maptools or roll20. Both are totally free.

Fantasy Grounds 2 is also a paid VTT.

But MapTools seems to be a fairly popular free VTT, used by a fair number of GMs at the Pathfinder Society Online Collective.

*

Can it use a wand? Either from it's sorcerer spells, or using master's UMD ranks.

The familiar FAQ (this) seems to imply that the only ones that can use a wand (or any non-neck slot magic item) is brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit. But that was written before the Faerie Dragon was PFS legal.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

Steg wrote:

Can it use a wand? Either from it's sorcerer spells, or using master's UMD ranks.

The familiar FAQ (this) seems to imply that the only ones that can use a wand (or any non-neck slot magic item) is brownie, imp, lyrakien azata, or quasit. But that was written before the Faerie Dragon was PFS legal.

I'm pretty sure that the answer is yes, as it has hands AND native UMD. I think it was talked about in a previous thread as well.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite.

Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD. I will get it added to the FAQ. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Now if only I could transfer the boon from a character who can't use it to one who would benefit from it. :-(

Yes, I know I can (and will!) GM for it, but it would be nice to have two. ;-)

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

Just as a heads up, I also have advised I will get it added to the FAQ today or tomorrow. No need to mark it for FAQ.

*****

Matthew Morris wrote:
Marthian wrote:

Thank you for the reply.

I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

I feel your pain. Rey (sage bloodline) has a Charisma of 12, and just hit 5th level. He'd have to spend his 7th, 9th, and 11th level feats to get it. (skill focus, cha bump then Heritage then improved familiar.)

Funny thing is, with him being modeled after Harry Dresden, a faerie dragon would be a natural 'Bob' sidekick.

Side note--I believe Sage bloodline cannot take Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) due to already having the Arcane bloodline with the Wildblooded archetype, thus making your character the only character in the game that can never gain a familiar through Eldritch Heritage other than a Black Blade Magus.

*

Michael Brock wrote:
Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD. I will get it added to the FAQ. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Woohoo! Now I have to decide if Rich "Trippy Dick" Nickerson wants a dragon (since I randomly chose to play him on Tuesday in the scenario in question) or wants to have his secretary (Lyrakien)... Hmph, making my life _so_ hard!

*

Michael Brock wrote:
Yes it can use a wand. It uses its master's UMD.

Does this mean it can't use the wand without UMD? (For a wand of a sorcerer spell)

There's a thread in the rules section (Are Faerie Dragons Sorcerers?) about this, should I just follow whatever people end up agreeing on, or is the PFS-Specific rule that it's UMD-only?

Bonus question: If it does actually work like a real sorcerer, can I buy it a page of spell knowledge to give it another spell known? It's a slotless non-activated magic item, so the FAQ doesn't seem to prohibit it, but giving it the ability to cast magic missile might be frowned on.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Steg wrote:


Bonus question: If it does actually work like a real sorcerer, can I buy it a page of spell knowledge to give it another spell known? It's a slotless non-activated magic item, so the FAQ doesn't seem to prohibit it, but giving it the ability to cast magic missile might be frowned on.

Remember that these little guys can't carry stuff. "Slotless" doesn't mean that it's not carried, it only means that it doesn't take up a standard slot.

Qadira ****

LazarX wrote:
Steg wrote:


Bonus question: If it does actually work like a real sorcerer, can I buy it a page of spell knowledge to give it another spell known? It's a slotless non-activated magic item, so the FAQ doesn't seem to prohibit it, but giving it the ability to cast magic missile might be frowned on.

Remember that these little guys can't carry stuff. "Slotless" doesn't mean that it's not carried, it only means that it doesn't take up a standard slot.

ha! even I could make him a little pouch to carry things in - and my "Craft Leather" is like a 2. I'm sure you can buy saddle bags (properly sized) or some such for him... and he could put his stuff in those.

Now we will have someone chime in and say "it's not on any list! you can't buy it in PFS!" sigh....

*

LazarX wrote:
Steg wrote:


Bonus question: If it does actually work like a real sorcerer, can I buy it a page of spell knowledge to give it another spell known? It's a slotless non-activated magic item, so the FAQ doesn't seem to prohibit it, but giving it the ability to cast magic missile might be frowned on.

Remember that these little guys can't carry stuff. "Slotless" doesn't mean that it's not carried, it only means that it doesn't take up a standard slot.

Then how can he use a wand? Does someone have to rub it against his belly for him to trigger it?

If they can't carry anything, where do they keep their standard treasure? How do they get clothing onto tree branches?

If they can't use a backpack, they should be able to use saddlebags, right? Couldn't there be pockets in his tiny leather barding?

If he can't carry anything, he can't have a spell component pouch, so he can't cast focus spells like silent image or open/close.

Grand Lodge ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

He can lift up a wand and use if if you hold one out for him, but don't expect him to carry one 24/7.

And as far as the other snark questions.

1. Familliars have no treasure. Faerie Dragons in the wild keep the few baubles they collect in nests. they don't normally travel.

2. Faerie Dragons are sorcerers they don't need pouchs. The spells listed in the bestiary entry fall quite nicely within those limits. They're also Dragons who generally don't need to bother with material components or foci for the spells they cast.

**** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Is there a FAQ somewgere for the improved familiars? I'm just wondering...

  • What Familiar can use what item (Pseudo/Faerie dragons wearing rings/amulets/braces for example)
  • Which ones can UMD?
  • Communication issues?

  • ****

    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

    I believe that barring weapons and arms the rules tell you not to worry about the size of the magic it.

    ***** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Atlanta aka CRobledo

    Matthew Morris wrote:

    Is there a FAQ somewgere for the improved familiars? I'm just wondering...

  • What Familiar can use what item (Pseudo/Faerie dragons wearing rings/amulets/braces for example)
  • Which ones can UMD?
  • Communication issues?
  • There are quite a few, check the official GTPFOP FAQ for most:

    1. Familiars and Animal Companions are limited by their anatomy on what they can wear. For the great majority of them, they are limited to a barding and a neck slot item. Nothing else. The FAQ states that the only exceptions to this rule are currently Brownies, faerie dragons, imp, lyrakien azatas and quasits. These specific familiars can wield wands and even some magical items (specifically called out is a circlet of persuation in the head slot).

    2. All familiars can UMD, if the familiar OR the master has ranks in UMD. So if you somehow had a neck slot item that requires you to be a monk, you could give it to ANY familiar and if it or the master has UMD, they can attempt to use the "emulate class" UMD and activate it.

    Being able to UMD is not tied to being able to wield a wand.

    3. Communication is based on the familiar. Some familiars have a language, some do not. Some have truespeech. Additionally, familiars gain other ways of communication as their masters level. This is common for all familiars, so see the CRB for details.

    *

    LazarX wrote:

    He can lift up a wand and use if if you hold one out for him, but don't expect him to carry one 24/7.

    And as far as the other snark questions.

    1. Familliars have no treasure. Faerie Dragons in the wild keep the few baubles they collect in nests. they don't normally travel.

    2. Faerie Dragons are sorcerers they don't need pouchs. The spells listed in the bestiary entry fall quite nicely within those limits. They're also Dragons who generally don't need to bother with material components or foci for the spells they cast.

    Are there rules for any of that?

    How long can it carry a wand? Why can it carry a wand, but not a page? If they get the bonus feat for being sorcerers, do they also get a bloodline power? Do dragons really not need to provide focus items?


    LazarX wrote:
    2. Faerie Dragons are sorcerers they don't need pouchs. The spells listed in the bestiary entry fall quite nicely within those limits. They're also Dragons who generally don't need to bother with material components or foci for the spells they cast.

    Yeah, but based on actual RULES, they don't have levels in the Sorceror class that grants Eschew Materials as a Bonus Feat, they aren't listed as having Eschew Materials. Tattooed Sorcerors are still Sorcerors, yet don't have Eschew Materials. That said, I would say that it makes sense to see this as an over-sight... Since Eschew Materials is a Bonus Feat of a Class (like Scribe Scroll is for Wizards), I would NOT give that to them, but just give them a Pouch with the components for their spells (like Sorcerors who don't get Eschew Materials, e.g. Tattooed Sorcerors).

    Faery Dragons have their normal slots, but can carry objects within their carrying capacity. Scrolls (and Pages of Spell Knowledge) really have no weight, I don't see why they can't carry them, tied to their back if need be, pigeon style. Wands also don't have a signifigant weight, albeit if I plan on for the Familiar to be able to regularly use it, I would find an appropriately sized Wand for the Faery Dragon.

    I don't really see any of his questions as 'snark', they are legitimate questions about what is actually allowed by the rules.

    QUESTION FOR MICHAEL BROCK: You added Faery Dragon to the 'wand list'. Why not Pseudodragon, which is older and 100% Core?
    I would hardly be surprised if other Improved Familiars would also be prime material for Wand/Head-slot item usage,
    but Pseudodragon is portrayed as being nigh-equivalent to the Faery Dragon, so it seems a shoo-in...???

    **** RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

    CRobledo wrote:
    Matthew Morris wrote:

    Is there a FAQ somewgere for the improved familiars? I'm just wondering...

  • What Familiar can use what item (Pseudo/Faerie dragons wearing rings/amulets/braces for example)
  • Which ones can UMD?
  • Communication issues?
  • There are quite a few, check the official GTPFOP FAQ for most:

    1. Familiars and Animal Companions are limited by their anatomy on what they can wear. For the great majority of them, they are limited to a barding and a neck slot item. Nothing else. The FAQ states that the only exceptions to this rule are currently Brownies, faerie dragons, imp, lyrakien azatas and quasits. These specific familiars can wield wands and even some magical items (specifically called out is a circlet of persuation in the head slot).

    2. All familiars can UMD, if the familiar OR the master has ranks in UMD. So if you somehow had a neck slot item that requires you to be a monk, you could give it to ANY familiar and if it or the master has UMD, they can attempt to use the "emulate class" UMD and activate it.

    Being able to UMD is not tied to being able to wield a wand.

    3. Communication is based on the familiar. Some familiars have a language, some do not. Some have truespeech. Additionally, familiars gain other ways of communication as their masters level. This is common for all familiars, so see the CRB for details.

    Thank you. I'd hope/think Mephits could wield wands/weapons too. I just like the idea of a Fire Mephit with a small Glaive, makes me think of Toot Toot.

    ****

    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

    FOR DA PIZZA LORD!!!

    As long as it fits in the encumbrance of the Faery Dragon I see no reason why it couldn't wield a piece of equipment that was appropriately sized, or that the rules told you not to worry about its size.

    Check out size and magic on page 459 of the core rule book.

    Andoran *

    Mahtobedis wrote:

    FOR DA PIZZA LORD!!!

    As long as it fits in the encumbrance of the Faery Dragon I see no reason why it couldn't wield a piece of equipment that was appropriately sized, or that the rules told you not to worry about its size.

    Check out size and magic on page 459 of the core rule book.

    Ok so looked a few threads on this topic and just want to confirm the following.

    1. Faerie Dragons are , now, perfectly legal it seems with Improved familiar yes?
    2. If they can use a wand, and it seems they can from this thread, why would it require UMD, since, also in this thread, they are treated as sorcerers who can use a wiz spell wands all day. They come with UMD anyway so its not biggy just trying to follow the logic.
    3. If you get a faerie dragon are you suck with the sorcerer spells listed in the bestiary (not that they are awful) or can you pick
    4. For its BW, does the DC go up? The effective HD on Familiars does go up as their master does. so would a 7 level wizard faerie dragon familiar have a dc 14 (10+ 1 for con+ HD/2=3)breath attack.

    Thanks in advance.

    Sczarni

    Marthian wrote:

    Thank you for the reply.

    I do know the exact scenario that gives the boon to let you use it.

    Now if only I could get some people to GM it for (Already done it, and it wasn't on that character.)

    If you have this from play, the only way to get it is to GM. I like PbP, other than it ties up a character for an extended period of time. If you want to run it PbP, I would love to play it with a pregen for my new blight druid. I can also help with mapping for PbP.

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