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Alright, so I am a part of this "Vital Strike is Awesome" fad that's been going on here, but there is something that irks the crap out of me, and that's Devastating Strike.
It's a feat that is supposed to work in conjunction with Vital Strike, but all it offers is a +2-+6 damage bonus to Vital Strike attacks.
I look at this and think "Are you kidding me?" What kind of a feat is that, which only gives you a +2-+6 damage bonus to a certain type of attack, which makes this damage bonus, even in base form, pale in comparison?
Don't forget that it multiplies on a crit, allowing a heavier critting weapon to do some better damage than with a normal Vital Strike. I've used this with a fencers I'm playing that allows him to do a bit more damage with his keen rapier. Also a fighter I know at the FLGS uses this with his scythe for more damage on the crit (+24). Definitely does favor crit builds more.
A bit of thread necromancy, but I have a related question:
A Medium Critical Lance Mounted Charge with vital strike is established to look like this
(1d8+STR)x4+1d8 (Charging Lance of x2 Damage + Lance Critical of x3 = x4 and basic Vital Strike of +1d8)
(or more if you have a higher LV, are a cavalier, and tons of feats, but I'll try to keep this question simple)
However, quoting from the Paizo SRD:
"Vital Strike (Combat)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total."
and the extra damage die are not multiplied on a crit, as per RAW... so is the bonus damage figured into the equation right after the +STR and this multiplied by all the other multipliers as well? or is it some mystical Demi-bonus that only works on non-charges?
Should it look like this
(1d8+STR+2)x4+1d8
OR this
(1d8+STR)x4+1d8+(2x3)
It says specifically under the feat that those bonuses are multiplied on a critical hit.
To answer your question, im gonna go a little bit simpler cause your math confuses me.
If you have a 1d8 longsword and Vital Strike plus that feat it will be 2d8+2+str.
If you have the improved version it will be 3d8+4+str.
Greater 4d8+6+str.
There was a "Vital Srike is Awesome" Fad at one point? I missed that.
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Same here!
I like it, but I believe the fad was "Vital Strike is a trap feat"? :p
well, the best thing I learned in grade 6 was BEDMAS for math.
Brackets (what's inside first)
Exponents (Second)
Division (Third)
Multiplication (also, or perhaps alternatively, Third)
Addition (Fourth)
Subtraction (also, or perhaps alternatively, Fourth)
Also, I purposefully used an example with a default multiplier because I need to know where that +2 to +6 ends up in the equation. I'm leaning towards lumping it in with the other static bonuses but that could net an extra 36 damage on a LV20 cavalier, in addition to their already prodigious static bonuses that get multiplied. I think I saw a maxed Cav at about 1d8+100-ish on a charge without doing the multiplication and all that jaz.
First point. You cannot combine vital strike with charge :(
Vital strike is a standard action and charging is a full round action.
Second point. If you COULD combine the two, furious finish would be overpowered for this. All damage die maximized then tripled...
To answer your question (or what I think is your question) vital strike is not multiplied by a crit (2x, 3x, 4x ect) but other methods could multiply it (like charge, if legal)
To explain, here is this.
Lance =1d8 damage. Strength =+4. BAB =10. Devastating Strike =+2. Vial strike =1d8. charging =3x damage. Add in a critical hit.
((1d8 +14 +2 ) X2 +1d8 ) X3
So 2d8 (X3) +1d8 (x3) +60.
or to put it another way.
1d8 +16. lance and str/bab/devastating strike
1d8 +16. critical hit.
1d8. vital strike.
Then take the total of all the above and multiply it by 3. Note that you dont roll 7 dice, you only roll 3 dice and take those results and multiply them by 3.
I was a part of the 'vital strike fad' mostly because of furious finish. I just like the idea even if it is not the most powerful.
Edit: Added in devastating strike.
Edit: Reasons for why furious finish is overpowered with charge. 1d8 might not seem like much but since you can wield a lance 1 handed and a large one makes that 2 handed you get 2d6. add in enlarge person and it is 3d6. lead blades makes that 2d8. Again the difference from average 9 damage and 16 is not much but then you add in greater vital strike aka 8d8. Now the difference between 36 average damage and 62 max damage is quite noticeable. Finally when you add in 3x damage for charging and you go from 98 average damage to 194 max damage. Huge amounts, hugely noticeable and that is only the base damage, add in all other modifiers as normal. The other nice thing about furious finish is it maximises all damage dice, so flaming enhancement, sneak attack, holy damage, bane ect. all of it gets maximized.
Good thing you cant charge and vital strike at the same time ^-^
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well, the best thing I learned in grade 6 was BEDMAS for math.
Brackets (what's inside first)
Exponents (Second)
Division (Third)
Multiplication (also, or perhaps alternatively, Third)
Addition (Fourth)
Subtraction (also, or perhaps alternatively, Fourth)
they teach pemdas now
parentheses, exponent, multiply, divide, add, subtract
meh, Guess this old dog has learned a few thing by different names, lol. I like using the Parentheses and Brackets in an equation to help visualize the progression if it's stacked parenthetical equations:
([([4+1]x2)+5]/3) just as a quick "for instance". It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference, but it helps keep a visual track of things for me.
As an aside, I dislike the prevalent: "3d8 + Bonus x Multiplier" die layout people seem to be using when talking about Vital strike and other Add Damage die feats/abilities. It makes it read like you are rolling all three, adding the bonus then multiplying the whole thing for a charge.
I read it as VS die are added after all the multipliers given that they are not multiplied on a crit. So as a for instance a Critical with a +1 Bane Lance used in a mounted VS+DS charge with STR 12 should look like:
[(1d8+1+2+1+2)x4]+1d8+2d6
please give my math a going over, but I'm fairly sure it's more accurate when strung out rather than condensing it.
You aren't charging on a lance charge your horse is charging and because of mounted combat rules you are limited to one attack on the end of that charge but otherwise have your full action which means you can vital strike and also use a move action (for anything other than moving).
Wow, looks like I was wrong about that. Seems you are right as far as I can tell.
Which means... My post above... Oh carp!@M_78.
Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.
add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
You double the damage from the charge, not it criting. So that is the main argument for multiplying everything including the vital strike damage.
The line above it saying you add the results together (say 4 and 5 on a d8) before adding other damage bonuses, like the tripling of the damage (9x3=27). This is the second argument for this line of thinking. A lance simply says it doubles everything, there is no other rules including/excluding anything so I assume it means EVERYTHING. I always wished this was a bit clearer but that seems the logical way to read it.Do you read it differently? If so, how do you read it?
@M_78.Benefit: A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount.add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision-based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.You double the damage from the charge, not it criting...Do you read it differently? If so, how do you read it?
The rulebook has a section on multiplying damage:
Multiplying Damage
Sometimes you multiply damage by some factor, such as on a critical hit. Roll the damage (with all modifiers) multiple times and total the results.
Note: When you multiply damage more than once, each multiplier works off the original, unmultiplied damage. So if you are asked to double the damage twice, the end result is three times the normal damage.
Exception: Extra damage dice over and above a weapon's normal damage are never multiplied.
As you can see, the procedure is the same when multiplying from a crit or a lance charge. As I've bolded above, Vital Strike adds extra damage dice, and those are never multiplied.
There was a "Vital Srike is Awesome" Fad at one point? I missed that.
Well, more a spurt of people arguing against the prevailing "Vital Strike is terrible" opinion.
@Pupsocket. Good to know, now I can at least do it right now that I know its legal :) I will have to go back and see what is doable now but I imagine that furious finish will still be good simply because it maximizes all damage dice.
Thanks again!