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The Guide is a work in progress, and it's my second such guide; the first being my Guide to the Optimal Paladin & Antipaladin. It's based upon my experiences with the Inquisitor class and upon the advice of those who have come before me. Any constructive commentary is welcome. You can find the guide located here. I have yet to complete my work on the Inquisitor Spells, Inquisitor Gear, and maybe even putting in some sample builds.
Thank you for your time.
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Your Paladin guide was spectacular and polished. You've set a high bar for yourself - i'll go over the guide and lend my feedback.
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My Paladin guide had many, many hours of work put into it and it was helped along by constructive feedback before it ever got converted into .pdf form, but even the .pdf is imperfect. Even so, I hope that I can put out another quality guide.
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My favorite thing about your guides is the roleplaying roles sections. I don't think many people do this and I was pleasantly surprised when I was first reading your Paladin guide. You also have a great selection of art and give input to many of the more "modern" feats we have available now unlike Treantmonk and RogueEidolon, who haven't updated their guides in years.
I like this inquisitor guide already, but may I make a suggestion for a Crossbow build? Inquisitors are the only class that automatically get repeating crossbows as a proficiency so it is at least somewhat an intended role and thus someone will want to make one. I suggest adding in commentary on the "Rapid Reload" and "Crossbow Mastery" feats, which make your crossbow reloads Free Actions and thus viable. A Crossbow build is also better at crit fishing and there is a Prestige Class where you add CHA to damage. I'm sure it's not as good as the Longbow Inquisitor, but it's certainly viable.
I'm going to be playing a normal archer Inquisitor in the near future, so thanks for the guide =)
I noticed this bit in there while talking about the Aegis Inquisitor:
Eldritch Heritage (3rd): This feat is okay for the 1st level Bloodline abilities, but are you really going to be using your claws in combat (should they be from the bloodline you select) when you have so many other options? It will make those unarmed strikes more effective.
Improved Eldritch Heritage (11th): If you have two feats to burn, this isn’t a bad selection if you want to take the 9th level bloodline powers of either the Abyssal or Orc bloodlines for a +2 to your Strength (bumps up to +6 by 17th level for a +3 to hit and damage). However, you can get strong increases to both hit and damage without burning two feats to get them.
I assume that is a copy/paste mistake from something about Sorcerors?
P.S.: If you cover PrCs, I'd be interested in your take on the Gray Gardner class.
Great effort there, but keep in mind the Dwarf Inquisitor with a guided weapon, steel soul feat and Glory of Old Trait, along with witch-hunter and preacher archetypes. If combined with a 1-level Monk (Crusader's Flurry) and 1-level cleric dips for the one extra domain, you will be an unstoppable WISDOMonster. Massive Saves, Rocket-high AC, great Attack and Damage, truly a Force for the BBEG to be Reckoned with.
I noticed this bit in there while talking about the Aegis Inquisitor:
Eldritch Heritage (3rd): This feat is okay for the 1st level Bloodline abilities, but are you really going to be using your claws in combat (should they be from the bloodline you select) when you have so many other options? It will make those unarmed strikes more effective.
Improved Eldritch Heritage (11th): If you have two feats to burn, this isn’t a bad selection if you want to take the 9th level bloodline powers of either the Abyssal or Orc bloodlines for a +2 to your Strength (bumps up to +6 by 17th level for a +3 to hit and damage). However, you can get strong increases to both hit and damage without burning two feats to get them.I assume that is a copy/paste mistake from something about Sorcerors?
P.S.: If you cover PrCs, I'd be interested in your take on the Gray Gardner class.
It wasn't a copy/paste mistake. Eldritch Heritage is a great feat that gives you bloodlines. If you're in a CHA class or rolled great CHA there's a ton of bloodlines that usually suck for sorcerers that are amazing in other classes, like a Paladin with the Orc Bloodline.
One thing I noticed, there were quite a few copy-paste issues when it came to what level feats with BAB prerequisites were available for the Inquisitor.
Alright, few things I noticed while reading through the guild (and I am still reading through it) mostly in the order I noticed them.
1) your first green blurb, quoted from the Chronicles of Horus Heresy, is that per chance warhammer? :)
2) who is the iconic Imrijka? Guess i just missed the reference, but I had no idea about the spanish inquisition till today, mostly just curious.
3) A few of your pictures seem to be cut off at the botom, especially the second archer one. The pictures are a great way to break up walls of text, so I like them a lot, and it just might be a formatting issue on my part but I bring it up anyways.
4) When you start talking about teamwork feats in the archer section, you talk as if your partner needed the feat as well. Because of solo tactics, that point is moot unless the partner wanted the benefit of the feat. Example;
Target of Opportunity (9th): Get in an immediate attack against a nearby foe when an ally with this feat hits that foe. Solid choice.
In reality, you could take that immediate attack any time any ally made a ranged attack to a target within 30 feet, regardless of wether he had this feat or not.
5) In the Devastator section, you should probably note that cleave and vital strike cannot be used together, as a lot of people do not realize that.
5b) You should re-read improved devastating strike again. Currently you have it wrong. When you hit someone and you roll a 20 (or whatever number is high enough) it is a critical threat, then you roll again with the same modifiers and if that one is high enough to hit, you confirm the critical, doing the extra damage. Source.
Improved devastating strike only improves your confirmation roll, not your critical threat roll, so a keen greataxe would threaten on a 18-20 and would confirm with a +2-6 modifier. Your way was how I first thought criticals worked and was hugely disappointed when I found this out. As such, when I actually get vital strike, I only get devastating strike and not the improved version as it is not worth it IMO.
5b) Improved vital strike and greater vital strike, again does not work quite like you think so when you fix it, fix this part as well.
6) Same as #4 except for the devastator. a good one to mention would be Outflank. If only you have it, it becomes free attacks every time that two-weapon fighter beside you crits with his 15-20 weapons. Great if he has it, but still good on its own if you have another front line partner. Again with shake it off, just you need it, if you have a horse, that is one ally, if your paly buddy beside you has a horse, thats 2 allies, no need to give the entire team a feat tax just for that.
7) Instant jugement, is it really all that useful? For the cost of a feat you can activate a jugement as an immediate action instead of a swift, since you can only use one immediate or swift a round, is there any real point in activating it that much quicker? The only instances where this might be useful is with the protection, purity and resistance jugements if you manage to get caught with your pants down so to speak. I would doubt it is a blue, but maybe that is a difference of opinion.
8) I would like to see the devastator split up into 2 groups, the damage dealer and the demoralizer. the two builds are quite different and require vastly different feats to make really well. Also mentioning that both half-orks and hobgoblins make great intimidators. I would guess that this is to much to ask as it would involve to much change but I put it out anyways!
Edit: ah nm on the half-ork part, you already mentioned that! my bad.
9) I would like to expand on the eldritch heritage part for a bit. It has so much versatility and can have some potentially steep feat investments (between 2 for the basic, 4 for the line and 5 if you want everything). Some to look at would be ork and abyssal (for the str bonus and the touch of rage mostly), arcane (for the familiar or even a bonded weapon that only works for you), demon (want to kill that prisoner but not get caught and cannot attack it directly? use wasting ray), fey (laughing touch is a great debilitator, stops an archer from shooting, a caster from casting and the BBEG from attacking for a round, good trade off. Fleeting glance is great if you go that high) or Rakshasa (for the less combat, more social focused virtuoso, this is actually gold). Again, there is so much versatility, and at a cost, that I would refer you to here, as it is better advise than I could give.
10) In the Virtuoso section, you mention master of the ledger, this is a fan created feat, and if you are allowing those into your guide, I would suggest butterfly sting for the devastator with the sieze the moment or outflank teamwork feat. You give up critical damage on your hit to allow your buddy to ato crit and grant you a free attack because of it. It takes half a round longer and you do less damage initially but get more attacks and allow a teammate to do more damage (especially with a scythe!). This is the first non core thing I noticed but I have not really been paying attention. do with it what you want.
Anyways thats as far as I got, Will finish reading the guide tomorrow and I hope you realize this post for what it is, constructive criticism and hopefully you found something worthwhile. Thanks for writing the guide! I like it a lot so far.
Oh and I would like to see a goblin in there, anywhere, doing anything, anywhere at all. just for me? please? with a cherry on top? lol
Did you leave out the other standard races in your guide because you thought they are a bad choice?
I'd say that the half orc is a nice race for a Archer inquisitor because with the keen scent feat and the pheromone arrows you can nicely enhance your to hit and damage.
And the wis requirement for the feat should not be an issue for an inquisitor.
And with his bite attack he can always threaten while wielding his bow.
Um...maybe I'm slow but where is the guide? Could someone post a link?
Um...maybe I'm slow but where is the guide? Could someone post a link?
It's in the first post, but here ya go:
GUIDE
Um...maybe I'm slow but where is the guide? Could someone post a link?
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One thing to remember,
Domain Spells: Depending on the domain you choose (see below), your domain spells selections could either be really good, or mediocre. We’ll look more into domain specifics in another section.
Like a cleric’s deity, an inquisitor’s deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, and her values. Although not as tied to the tenets of the deity as a cleric, an inquisitor must still hold such guidelines in high regard, despite that fact she can go against them if it serves the greater good of the faith. An inquisitor can select one domain from among those belonging to her deity. She can select an alignment domain only if her alignment matches that domain. With the GM’s approval, an inquisitor can be devoted to an ideal instead of a deity, selecting one domain to represent her personal inclination and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.
Each domain grants a number of domain powers, depending on the level of the inquisitor. An inquisitor does not gain the bonus spells listed for each domain, nor does she gain bonus spell slots. The inquisitor uses her level as her effective cleric level when determining the power and effect of her domain powers. If the inquisitor has cleric levels, one of her two domain selections must be the same domain selected as an inquisitor. Levels of cleric and inquisitor stack for the purpose of determining domain powers and abilities, but not for bonus spells.
Inquisitors don't gain the spells from a domain, just the domain powers.
On problem with the feat list for your Aegis Build. You recommend Furious Focus in Green. That feat is technically not useable with this build as you only applies when you wield as weapon two handed. If you are weapon and shield you can't two hand you weapon and that feat is useless. You could go with Buckler but that more fits your Devastator build.
My favorite thing about your guides is the roleplaying roles sections. I don't think many people do this and I was pleasantly surprised when I was first reading your Paladin guide. You also have a great selection of art and give input to many of the more "modern" feats we have available now unlike Treantmonk and RogueEidolon, who haven't updated their guides in years.
I like this inquisitor guide already, but may I make a suggestion for a Crossbow build? Inquisitors are the only class that automatically get repeating crossbows as a proficiency so it is at least somewhat an intended role and thus someone will want to make one. I suggest adding in commentary on the "Rapid Reload" and "Crossbow Mastery" feats, which make your crossbow reloads Free Actions and thus viable. A Crossbow build is also better at crit fishing and there is a Prestige Class where you add CHA to damage. I'm sure it's not as good as the Longbow Inquisitor, but it's certainly viable.
I'm going to be playing a normal archer Inquisitor in the near future, so thanks for the guide =)
Thank you for your praise of my work. I will consider a crossbow build, although it really is just a variation on the archer Inquisitor. If you have any further specifics to suggest for a crossbow build, that will certainly help me in getting the work done quicker.
I noticed this bit in there while talking about the Aegis Inquisitor:
Eldritch Heritage (3rd): This feat is okay for the 1st level Bloodline abilities, but are you really going to be using your claws in combat (should they be from the bloodline you select) when you have so many other options? It will make those unarmed strikes more effective.
Improved Eldritch Heritage (11th): If you have two feats to burn, this isn’t a bad selection if you want to take the 9th level bloodline powers of either the Abyssal or Orc bloodlines for a +2 to your Strength (bumps up to +6 by 17th level for a +3 to hit and damage). However, you can get strong increases to both hit and damage without burning two feats to get them.I assume that is a copy/paste mistake from something about Sorcerors?
P.S.: If you cover PrCs, I'd be interested in your take on the Gray Gardner class.
I haven't ever covered Prestige Classes before. I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to it. At present, I don't know of a very good guide for Alchemists, so I might take that one on after I'm done with this one.
Great effort there, but keep in mind the Dwarf Inquisitor with a guided weapon, steel soul feat and Glory of Old Trait, along with witch-hunter and preacher archetypes. If combined with a 1-level Monk (Crusader's Flurry) and 1-level cleric dips for the one extra domain, you will be an unstoppable WISDOMonster. Massive Saves, Rocket-high AC, great Attack and Damage, truly a Force for the BBEG to be Reckoned with.
Thank you for your comments. I will think more on the Dwarven Inquisitor; if you have a build you'd like to share with me, that might give me a little more to go on. I will note, though, that I do "pure" guides and don't get into multi-classing. That would make the guides infinitely more complex, and it gets into all kinds of discussions and arguments that are much better left to the forums, in my humble opinion.
One thing I noticed, there were quite a few copy-paste issues when it came to what level feats with BAB prerequisites were available for the Inquisitor.
Excellent catch. I was afraid of that. Would you mind giving me a hand in identifying those errors? A private message, if you're up to it, would be greatly appreciated.
Alright, few things I noticed while reading through the guild (and I am still reading through it) mostly in the order I noticed them.
1) your first green blurb, quoted from the Chronicles of Horus Heresy, is that per chance warhammer? :)
That could quite possibly be the case.
2) who is the iconic Imrijka? Guess i just missed the reference, but I had no idea about the spanish inquisition till today, mostly just curious.
Imrijka is the half-orc Inquisitor that you see in the Paizo books.
3) A few of your pictures seem to be cut off at the botom, especially the second archer one. The pictures are a great way to break up walls of text, so I like them a lot, and it just might be a formatting issue on my part but I bring it up anyways.
Formatting will change as the guide nears completion.
4) When you start talking about teamwork feats in the archer section, you talk as if your partner needed the feat as well. Because of solo tactics, that point is moot unless the partner wanted the benefit of the feat. Example;
Target of Opportunity (9th): Get in an immediate attack against a nearby foe when an ally with this feat hits that foe. Solid choice.
In reality, you could take that immediate attack any time any ally made a ranged attack to a target within 30 feet, regardless of wether he had this feat or not.
Yes, I am aware of that. However, solo tactics doesn't come into play until 3rd level and depending on what archetype you select, you may not get to have solo tactics at all. While I recognize that it's something that you'll likely have anyway, it's not something that's guaranteed in all cases. That, and it still requires that they meet the action and positioning requirements.
5) In the Devastator section, you should probably note that cleave and vital strike cannot be used together, as a lot of people do not realize that.
5b) You should re-read improved devastating strike again. Currently you have it wrong. When you hit someone and you roll a 20 (or whatever number is high enough) it is a critical threat, then you roll again with the same modifiers and if that one is high enough to hit, you confirm the critical, doing the extra damage. Source.5c) Improved vital strike and greater vital strike, again does not work quite like you think so when you fix it, fix this part as well.
I am aware of how the feat works, so I'm confused, as you seem to be stating that it works the way in which I said it did, but that might possibly be just in how I worded things, making it a little confusing. Since you get to add the bonus damage from Vital Strike (plus Improved and Greater) to your critical confirmation roll, you can add up to +6 on the roll to confirm with Improved Devastating Strike. So, extra damage, plus a hefty bonus on the critical confirmation roll. I did word the entry in a way that it specifically states that it is the confirmation range, not the critical threat range.
As for Improved/Greater Vital Strike, please point out the exact error.
6) Same as #4 except for the devastator. A good one to mention would be Outflank. If only you have it, it becomes free attacks every time that two-weapon fighter beside you crits with his 15-20 weapons. Great if he has it, but still good on its own if you have another front line partner. Again with shake it off, just you need it, if you have a horse, that is one ally, if your paly buddy beside you has a horse, thats 2 allies, no need to give the entire team a feat tax just for that.
I suppose my response will be the same as from #4, then. :)
7) Instant jugement, is it really all that useful? For the cost of a feat you can activate a jugement as an immediate action instead of a swift, since you can only use one immediate or swift a round, is there any real point in activating it that much quicker? The only instances where this might be useful is with the protection, purity and resistance jugements if you manage to get caught with your pants down so to speak. I would doubt it is a blue, but maybe that is a difference of opinion.
I suspect that it is. :)
8) I would like to see the devastator split up into 2 groups, the damage dealer and the demoralizer. the two builds are quite different and require vastly different feats to make really well.
This I will consider. Thank you very much for your input.
9) I would like to expand on the eldritch heritage part for a bit. It has so much versatility and can have some potentially steep feat investments (between 2 for the basic, 4 for the line and 5 if you want everything). Some to look at would be ork and abyssal (for the str bonus and the touch of rage mostly), arcane (for the familiar or even a bonded weapon that only works for you), demon (want to kill that prisoner but not get caught and cannot attack it directly? use wasting ray), fey (laughing touch is a great debilitator, stops an archer from shooting, a caster from casting and the BBEG from attacking for a round, good trade off. Fleeting glance is great if you go that high) or Rakshasa (for the less combat, more social focused virtuoso, this is actually gold). Again, there is so much versatility, and at a cost, that I would refer you to here, as it is better advise than I could give.
I did spend some time going over why I feel that it's a feat-trap in my Paladin guide discussion. What it basically boils down to is that to get full utility out of any bloodline with the Eldritch Heritage feat tree, you're going to burn 30% of your total feats at level 20. While the abilities that you can gain from Eldritch Heritage are quite nifty, indeed, they're a collection of lateral abilities (in much the same way that the Aasimar Angelic Blood tree is) that only grant some synergy with your Inquisitor abilities. That, and Cartmanbeck has already put together a guide on Eldritch Heritage feat uses for those who are so inclined. :)
10) In the Virtuoso section, you mention master of the ledger, this is a fan created feat, and if you are allowing those into your guide, I would suggest butterfly sting for the devastator with the sieze the moment or outflank teamwork feat. You give up critical damage on your hit to allow your buddy to ato crit and grant you a free attack because of it. It takes half a round longer and you do less damage initially but get more attacks and allow a teammate to do more damage (especially with a scythe!). This is the first non core thing I noticed but I have not really been paying attention. do with it what you want.
Master of the Ledger appears in Taldor, Echoes of Glory, p. 29. Is that not an official product?
Anyways thats as far as I got, Will finish reading the guide tomorrow and I hope you realize this post for what it is, constructive criticism and hopefully you found something worthwhile. Thanks for writing the guide! I like it a lot so far.Oh and I would like to see a goblin in there, anywhere, doing anything, anywhere at all. just for me? please? with a cherry on top? lol
With as thorough as you have been, how could I not? :)
Did you leave out the other standard races in your guide because you thought they are a bad choice?
I'd say that the half orc is a nice race for a Archer inquisitor because with the keen scent feat and the pheromone arrows you can nicely enhance your to hit and damage.
And the wis requirement for the feat should not be an issue for an inquisitor.
And with his bite attack he can always threaten while wielding his bow.
Generally speaking, I don't say much about the standard races if I don't think they're great choices. It's a waste of word-count (granted, in something that doesn't worry about word count, but old habits die hard). I do, however, feel that the bite attack is generally negligible as you want to avoid getting within melee range in general, but the pheromone arrows are one that I'd forgotten about. I may give the Half-Orc Archer Inquisitor greater consideration.
Great stuff on this... appreciate the work.
Incidently, your Paladin guide seems to be stuck and can not be downloaded/saved in pdf form. Your inquistor guide does not seem to have the same problem.
Devastator Inquisitor lists power attack as as a level 1 feat... due to their BAB they can't take it until 3rd.
You've also used the term dramatic display when its 'Dazzling Display'.
The Paladin Guide is not stuck. It does not have downloading enabled... On purpose. I've mentioned this before, though I'll admit you may have missed it. When I'm completely satisfied that my Paladin Guide is a finished product, then I'll enable downloading. At this time, I do not consider it so.
The feat errors are going to get fixed; I get by with a little help from my friends. :)
Also, Dramatic Display is a separate feat that requires Dazzling Display. It's found in Ultimate Combat.
One thing to remember,
Inquisitors don't gain the spells from a domain, just the domain powers.
Thank you. Corrected.
You've got all your martial feats listed as if you were full BAB. The BAB 6 feats should come at level 8, the BAB 8 at 11, the BAB 9 at 12, and the BAB 11 at 15. An inquisitor can never qualify for Greater Vital Strike.
Not sure why you're suggesting Falchion for half-elf. Even if the eastern weapons are ruled out Elven Curve Blade has slightly higher average damage and is a better thematic fit for a half-elf. Falcata has better crits unless you're going for a critical focus build, which kicks in rather late for a medium BAB class. It's not like there's any advantage to taking a martial instead of an exotic. At the same time you don't mention falchion proficiency as a merit of the half-orc while assuming it throughout the two handed inquisitor section.
Greater Vital Strike: Fixed. Thank you. The other levels are going to be corrected.
As for falchion proficiency being mentioned for the half-orc, does it require a specific mention?
I'll consider your advice on the Elven Curve Blade and the Falcata. Thank you for your input.
On problem with the feat list for your Aegis Build. You recommend Furious Focus in Green.
Fixed. Thank you.
Additionally, Half-Orcs can swap out their racial weapon proficiencies for Flails, Dire flails, and perhaps more excitingly, Spiked Chains.
Spiked Chain + Teamwork feats (Coordinated Maneuvers) + the combat expertise feats + Judgement bonus to-hit can actually make your character a viable disarming/tripping combatant. Add to that the Half-Orc's intimidation bonus, which works beautifully with spells like Blistering Invictive, and the intimidation feat chains (Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash and the like) and you've got some versatile and powerful options.
I like your roleplaying suggestions, however, Inquisitors are much less conceptually bound than Paladins - there are simply many more viable options to the Inquisitor based on Diety, Alignment, etc. An interesting section, but a bit less needful - unless of course, there's an emerging problem of everybody thinking that Torquemada is the only way to play an Inquisitor.
In which case, thank thank thank you for keeping my favorite PF class from developing its very own "lawful stupid" problem.
In the Acolyte Inquisitor's Feat section you rate Preferred Spell as blue.
Preferred Spell (5th): Pick this to use with your favourite spell and be able to sacrifice spells just to cast it again. You can also use this feat along with other metamagic feats.
The problem with this is that the inquisitor is a spontaneous caster, making Preferred Spell a wasted feat.
The feat level errors have been corrected. Thank you to those of you who noticed the error.
Evillash, thank you for your input. That has been corrected in the guide.
sgtrocknroll, it's listed in my Hero Lab as existing. I took it on faith, but upon looking it up in Inner Sea Magic, I see that you are correct. I'll have to notify the folks who work on Hero Lab about the error. I use it as my quickest reference.
Atarlost and Killstring... I am not ignoring you. I just haven't gotten around to those points just yet.
As always, thank you all for your input.
This guide is pretty awesome, I wish I had seen it BEFORE I built Temerith here by hand. I did notice, however, your mention of Intimidating Prowess, which had me slapping my forehead going DUH! Why didn't I think of that!
I'm definitely going to be bookmarking this for easy access, and I hope you keep making awesome guides like this!
Evillash, thank you for your input. That has been corrected in the guide.
You should probably correct Greater Spell Specialization as well, since that feat basically does the same.
Lookout is a fantastic teamwork feat, especially for an Archery Inquisitor with another character with high Perception in the party. What makes it so good for an Archer Inquisitor is the part that says:
"If both you and your ally would be able to act in the surprise round without the aid of this feat, you may take both a standard and a move action (or a full-round action) during the surprise round."
This is way more powerful for an archer than a melee inquisitor.
About the performance combat feats you recommend like Dramatic and Savage Display. Don't you need the Performing Combatant feat to be allowed to use performance feats in any non-performance combats? Even then doesn't allow you only one then?
Also Martial Weapon Proficiency is missing feats section for the Devastator which I would assume is important if you aren't playing Half-Elf. Whether you like the Greatsword, Falchion, Scythe, or Nodachi you lack proficiency in them naturally. A alternative to the feat might be taking Heirloom Weapon from the Adventurer's Armory.
Lastly it should be noted in the Devastator section that if following your recommendations even with a 25 point buy we can not gain Precise Strike (a blue feat) without level up attribute spending or magical items.
Regardless thanks for the great guide it makes a class I had never been interested in playing come off as worth spending my time to get to know better.
Martial weapons are really only an average of 1 damage more than simple weapons. If you want to be able to use them I would suggest a race that grants them, and Martial Weapon Proficiency feat is a waste unless you are going for lance, otherwise go Exotic.
Having proficiency in a good two handed weapon is a major selling point for half-orcs and should be in the section on race selection for the two handed weapon build, just like it is for half-elves.
Of the core and featured races only five have proficiency in real two handed weapons: half-elves, half-orcs, orcs, tengu, and humans that have been adopted by orcs or tengu. I'd say that deserves a mention for any race that isn't going unlisted for bad stat modifiers.
Thanks for your input. Yes, the weapon proficiency is a good selling point for the half orcs, but orcs and tengu have unideal stat assignments for Inquisitors, which is why I do not recommend them. I didn't feel that it was necessary to further expound on the usefulness of having a two-handed weapon proficiency as a racial ability.
Additionally, Half-Orcs can swap out their racial weapon proficiencies for Flails, Dire flails, and perhaps more excitingly, Spiked Chains.
Spiked Chain + Teamwork feats (Coordinated Maneuvers) + the combat expertise feats + Judgement bonus to-hit can actually make your character a viable disarming/tripping combatant. Add to that the Half-Orc's intimidation bonus, which works beautifully with spells like Blistering Invictive, and the intimidation feat chains (Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash and the like) and you've got some versatile and powerful options.
Thank you for your input. I feel that it is important to note that the Chain Fighter racial ability does not give you proficiency with spiked chains, so you'd have to use another feat to get it. It allows you to treat spiked chains as a martial weapon, and then you'd have to pick up a Martial Weapon Proficiency feat to use it.
I like your roleplaying suggestions, however, Inquisitors are much less conceptually bound than Paladins - there are simply many more viable options to the Inquisitor based on Diety, Alignment, etc. An interesting section, but a bit less needful - unless of course, there's an emerging problem of everybody thinking that Torquemada is the only way to play an Inquisitor.
In which case, thank thank thank you for keeping my favorite PF class from developing its very own "lawful stupid" problem.
I'd noticed a lot of players expressing confusion as to what an Inquisitor's role actually was. That, and role-playing suggestions are always helpful, if only for an additional perspective.
This guide is pretty awesome, I wish I had seen it BEFORE I built Temerith here by hand. I did notice, however, your mention of Intimidating Prowess, which had me slapping my forehead going DUH! Why didn't I think of that!
I'm definitely going to be bookmarking this for easy access, and I hope you keep making awesome guides like this!
Thank you very much for your words of praise. :)
Lookout is a fantastic teamwork feat, especially for an Archery Inquisitor with another character with high Perception in the party. What makes it so good for an Archer Inquisitor is the part that says:
"If both you and your ally would be able to act in the surprise round without the aid of this feat, you may take both a standard and a move action (or a full-round action) during the surprise round."This is way more powerful for an archer than a melee inquisitor.
Lookout is, in my estimation, an fair feat - green, but not blue. You have to be adjacent to your partner, which isn't a serious issue for an archer, but it'll let your initiative be either the lower of your initiative or the initiative of your partner, minus one. So, it drops your initiative either way if you cannot act, granting you the ability to act if your partner can, but late in the round. I suppose it's better than nothing.
Then if you and your ally could act anyway, you get a move and a standard action (or a full round action) instead of a move or a standard action. That part of it is good, but not wonderful. If you're close, you're going to want to move out to take advantage of your range. That'll let you get a standard action off, which is nice, and if you're well outside of combat and you don't need to move away, you'll get up to three (four if you're hasted via spell or item).
Either way, it's an equivalent feat for melee inquisitors and ranged, but only because the circumstances surrounding your positioning can make it better for one versus the other. It's worth putting in the guide.
About the performance combat feats you recommend like Dramatic and Savage Display. Don't you need the Performing Combatant feat to be allowed to use performance feats in any non-performance combats? Even then doesn't allow you only one then?
Also Martial Weapon Proficiency is missing feats section for the Devastator which I would assume is important if you aren't playing Half-Elf. Whether you like the Greatsword, Falchion, Scythe, or Nodachi you lack proficiency in them naturally. A alternative to the feat might be taking Heirloom Weapon from the Adventurer's Armory.
Lastly it should be noted in the Devastator section that if following your recommendations even with a 25 point buy we can not gain Precise Strike (a blue feat) without level up attribute spending or magical items.
Regardless thanks for the great guide it makes a class I had never been interested in playing come off as worth spending my time to get to know better.
Thanks for your commentary. You're quite right about the Performing Combatant feat; the guide has been updated to reflect this. I've also included the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat (and the ways to get around needing it).
However, Precise Strike requires nothing more than BAB +1 and Dexterity 13, which is recommended by the time you're up to a 15 point buy. I appreciate your words of support, though.
No problem, I was hoping I was incorrect about the feat as already the amount allotted was tight for the builds I was trying.
"Recommended Point Builds:
10 Point Buy: Str 16, Dex 9, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 15, Cha 7
15 point Buy: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 7
20 Point Buy: Str 16, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 16, Cha 7
25 Point Buy: Str 16, Dex 12, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 7"
This is what I'm seeing for your recommended devastator builds. And with racial bonuses favored in Str and Wis your still short on a 13 Dex by one point at 25 point buy unless you give it a increase level up or magic items later on. Am I missing something?
Additionally, Half-Orcs can swap out their racial weapon proficiencies for Flails, Dire flails, and perhaps more excitingly, Spiked Chains.
Spiked Chain + Teamwork feats (Coordinated Maneuvers) + the combat expertise feats + Judgement bonus to-hit can actually make your character a viable disarming/tripping combatant. Add to that the Half-Orc's intimidation bonus, which works beautifully with spells like Blistering Invictive, and the intimidation feat chains (Dazzling Display, Cornugon Smash and the like) and you've got some versatile and powerful options.
Thank you for your input. I feel that it is important to note that the Chain Fighter racial ability does not give you proficiency with spiked chains, so you'd have to use another feat to get it. It allows you to treat spiked chains as a martial weapon, and then you'd have to pick up a Martial Weapon Proficiency feat to use it.
Meep, you're totally correct - I forgot that Inquisitor's don't get the full suite of Martials.
Welp, I need to move some things around on a character sheet.
Looking at your archery section I notice you have "1st", "2nd" next to things. What do these mean? Is that the first level you qualify to get them? If so change precise shot to 1st.
Paired opportunist isn't blue for an archer inquisitor, unless they have the snap shot chain.
Tengu aren't ideal? They get +2 Dex +2 Wis -2 Con, ideal for a ranged inquisitor in terms of stats, though yes, sword trained and exotic proficiencies is sorta bad unless you're going for a double crossbow or crystal chakram, since there aren't many good exotic ranged weapons.
Sword Train and Exotic training is pretty damn nice for a melee inquisitor, though the con will hurt there.
Also you provide many good AoO based teamwork feats for the archer, but these wouldn't work very well without snap shot which is also a great feat. Similiar idea with your fighter type builds, you suggest Martial Weapon Proficiency feats, when the prerequisites for that are the same as the ones for Exotic Weapon Profiency, BaB 1. Good Exotic Weapons to suggest are the Fauchard(best polearm) and the Falcata(Best One handed Weapon)
+1 for the half-elf weapon selection comment - Curve Blade is better mechanically and flavor-wise, and Falcata is of course ever popular for good reason, even with the added flexibility of being able to wield 1hd.
Fauchard is also excellent for trip and crit monkey builds.
Dazzling display is pretty meh until you get Shatter Defenses and Cornugon Smash, then it's solid for a melee character.
The worst part of building an inquisitor is figuring out which domain/Inquisition to take. Your color codes are made less helpful based on the fact that domain strength varies by build type. If you could have a short list of domains/inquisitions for each inquisitor type in each archetype section it would be most helpful. A suggested feat layout for each archetype up to about level 9 would also be helpful.
I think that would make it a complete guide.
Thank you for your comments, Lastoth. :)
The guide is still in-progress. While it's true that domain/inquisition strength varies by build type, the variances are small. What's an excellent domain power for a devastator inquisitor typically remains so for a virtuoso, and should any of those variances become significant, they will be so noted.
Also, I have no plans to include a short list of recommended domains/inquisitions for each inquisitor type in the archetype sections; not only would it be duplicate information, but misplaced and the value of each domain does not vary much between builds. That, and I feel that it drives player choice far too much.
There will be a section devoted to discussing the domains, and in that section, I plan on suggesting build-types and/or archetypes that would be suitable for use with that domain.
As for feat layouts for each archetype up to level nine, that's probably not going to happen either. As I learned while building my Paladin Guide, not every archetype is optimal for the roles that a Paladin might choose to play. It's a lot of duplicate work for almost zero benefit (either to the Guide or to players).
However, if you're interested in doing the work, I would consider inclusion into the guide with full credit to you for your work.
Dwarf(Hardy)+Glory of old trait+Steel soul= +5 racial vs spells
Combine with Inquis high Fort/Will saves and Witchunter Archetype(Knowledgeable Defense) = Auto pass on saves bar ones.
+Stalwart class ability and you laugh at casters.
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One particularly good feat combo you missed for any race with Darkvision or Low light vision is Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Moonlight Stalker.
Being able to reroll miss chance and invis foes getting no bonus against you is nice.
The AC bonus from Combat Expertise is not awesome but is OK to have for fights where you need to tank.
Moonlight stalker is awesome. +2 to attack and damage when you have concealment (Inquisitors can Stealth, have Invis and greater invis on their spellist)
Get a lesser cloak of displacement for permanent +2 hit and damage.
My example build:
Dwarf Inquisitor of RAGATHIEL (grants bastard sword)
Domain:Rage
Archetype: Witchunter
1- Steel Soul
3- Power Attack
5- Blind Fight
7- Combat Expertise
9- Moonlight Stalker
Duncan laughs off enemy magic like it was nothing.
He fights with Bastard Sword and wears a Buckler.
This let's him be a Devastator by 2 handing the sword+Power Attack+Judgement
(Can use Destructive Smite for more hurt and bane) or go 1hand+shield.
He wears +1 Jarring Agile Breastplate for good AC (which he can bump by going 1h+buckler for more AC, plus Shield Wall teamwork feat and adjacent party fighter, defensive training and Combat Exp) plus enemies who Power Attack and barely miss must save or sicken.
SoulGambit0, thank you for your praise of my guides.
Dwarf(Hardy)+Glory of old trait+Steel soul= +5 racial vs spells
Combine with Inquis high Fort/Will saves and Witchunter Archetype(Knowledgeable Defense) = Auto pass on saves bar ones.
+Stalwart class ability and you laugh at casters.
Thank you for going into greater detail on this, STR Ranger. It has been included in the Guide.
One particularly good feat combo you missed for any race with Darkvision or Low light vision is Blind Fight, Combat Expertise, Moonlight Stalker.
Being able to reroll miss chance and invis foes getting no bonus against you is nice.
The AC bonus from Combat Expertise is not awesome but is OK to have for fights where you need to tank.
Moonlight stalker is awesome. +2 to attack and damage when you have concealment (Inquisitors can Stealth, have Invis and greater invis on their spellist)
Get a lesser cloak of displacement for permanent +2 hit and damage.
Duncan Redhammer, thank you for your input on the guide. :)
Let me check this out. For the cost of three feat choices (100% of our total non-teamwork feat choices at level 5, 30% at level 20), you gain:
- Blind-Fight: The ability to reroll miss chances because of concealment (50% miss chance against invisible creatures; effectively cut down to a 25% miss chance). This benefit is overridden by use of the see invisiblity spell, and to me, a feat pick is far more valuable than a spell pick. Blind-Fight may be a constant ability once the feat is chosen, but the spell beats the snot out of it. It's a better choice for characters who don't have the potential to cast see invisibility. However, it's a prerequisite feat for Moonlight Stalker.
- Combat Expertise: Take a penalty to hit in order to gain a Dodge bonus to your armour class. At first, it seems solid since Dodge bonuses stack with each other, but they're affected by things that take away your Dexterity bonuses. Kind of a mixed bag, since you'll take a -1 to -4 penalty to your attack to get the bonus, and while there are a lot of ways to boost your attack back up, they don't all stack. I've always been on the fence about this feat.
- Moonlight Stalker: Get a modest bonus to your attacks when you have concealment.
So the genuine benefits you get are a +2 to attacks while you're concealed (quite nice if you're using Invisibility, Greater) and up to a +4 Dodge bonus to your AC... At the cost of three feats, a -4 to your attack rolls (slightly mitigated by the +2 to attacks when you're concealed). I'm not convinced that the trade-off is optimal, even if the benefits are nice.
Now, looking at your build, your character would have to be at least level 11 to have some sort of defensive training (you'd need a sixth feat for either Defensive Combat Training or Defensive Weapon Training; assuming no other extraneous items or information than what you've given me here, but that you are raging, have your Judgment of Sacred Destruction, your Destructive Smite, the Judgment of Sacred Protection, Combat Expertise, and Power Attack all active), but assuming the character is level 9, you'll have an AC of 21, and your attack stats are +6/+1 (+8/+3 with Moonlight Stalker and your cloak of displacement) doing 1d10+18 damage. I'm certain that you can do better than this with other feat selections.
Torture Subdomain is a good option for Inquisitor.
Thanks for the input, blackbloodtroll. Might be why I have the Torture Subdomain marked green. :)
Master of the Ledger is indeed in Taldor, Echoes of Glory, which is a Pathfinder 3.5 book, so some material may not be completely compatible with Pathfinder. I believe the feat in question had a few 3.5 references in it, hence the Fan Content tag on d20pfsrd.com. When we have to make some adjustments, we tag it as fan content or conversion to differentiate it from official material.
Duncan's view on the 3 feat chain.
Blindfight- True. See invis IS on me list. But 1. I am a spontaneous caster and don't get many spells known. Plus it's blowing an action when I should be swinging. Plus See invisible only helps vs invisible. It don't help vs Concealed, Stealthed or Displaced or Deeper Darkness or Black light etc.
Combat Expertise- ye get 2 traits. 1 should be Threatening Defender. Ye take one less on yer attack penalty for Combat Expertise. So at worst -4 to Attack for +5 AC. And nobody said ye need to use it all the time. It's used when ye need it.
Moonlight Stalker- A cloak o lesser displacement is affordable. With me stupid high saves I didn't need the Cloak of Resist anyway. So It's on ALL THE TIME. This feat is worth weapon focus (which you reccomend) and Gtr Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec all in one. And it works with Any Damn Weapon, not just one (like weapon focus normally does).
I be playin this build and I be the number one Ass Kicker!
Yer guide though....