because he is a melee fighter? and I could only afford one sweet weapon. I would rather climb a tree and jump on the flying guy then dane to fire a "bow" |
Above 1st level, everyone can afford a bow or crossbow. Above 3rd level everyone can afford a masterwork weapon. Above 5th level you should be carrying a few magic arrows (you find them everywhere, just hang on to them). Above 10th your missile weapon can be +1. All of this is achievable with a minimal outlay of resources to ensure that you are able to do something in all circumstances.
... because I have Acid Orb (and can enhance it with my bard songs, neat trick).
... because I _am_ the ranged missile (50ft of movement, 10ft-step and at-will flight: psionic).
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...because every fight should be played hand to hand. The honorable way!We face each other as God intended. Sportsmanlike.
So... I put down my sword, and you'll put down your rock?
because I've got magic missile.
Alternatively (from our monk) I have a 50 foot move.
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. . . because I know you do.
. . .because it's nice not having to roll dice every fight.
. . . because ranged weapons are bow-ring!
because this is MERICA and you cant tell me what to buy and what to do. I am a melee character plain and simple. if I have to fire range I will sit down kick my feet up and let our glass cannon deal with it for a change.
Because I choose to play the character I play?
because this is MERICA and you cant tell me what to buy and what to do. I am a melee character plain and simple. if I have to fire range I will sit down kick my feet up and let our glass cannon deal with it for a change.
If someone in my group did this, risking the other characters life because "they like to", we'd probably kick the character out of the group, because we want someone who is capable in combat - not someone who's a stubborn ass that just knows how to swing an axe.
If you as a player kept doing stuff like that, I don't think we'd welcome you to the table anymore.
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because this is MERICA and you cant tell me what to buy and what to do. I am a melee character plain and simple. if I have to fire range I will sit down kick my feet up and let our glass cannon deal with it for a change.If someone in my group did this, risking the other characters life because "they like to", we'd probably kick the character out of the group, because we want someone who is capable in combat - not someone who's a stubborn ass that just knows how to swing an axe.
If you as a player kept doing stuff like that, I don't think we'd welcome you to the table anymore.
So if someone played a char with dex 8 who would use a sling to miss his opponents at range round after round that would be ok but someone standing beside the ranged readying his attacks in case something comes near would not be ok?
Or would the "sit down and kick my feet up" part have to be meant seriously to get thrown out?
Here I thought Umbranus was going to answer "...because a Dhampir stole it" (:3), but I agree with his sentiment in this case. Things need to be discussed before anyone gets kicked from a table. And really, there's a difference between a slightly sub-optimal build and a total basketweaver which also needs to be taken into account.
While a poor choice in terms of optimization it fits roleplaying to a "T".
p.s. It is also fun to watch all of the rule's lawyers and power gamers get that little twitch in their eyes.
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You've obviously never seen the damage you can do with a well minmaxed accountant who splashed into disguise, forgery and bluff. He can destroy an entire kingdom within a day.
Why would a rules lawyer complain about a pacifist?
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Why would a rules lawyer complain about a pacifist?
If the pacifist is more effective than his loophole-ridden RAGELANCEPOUNCE machine then he may complain :)
Note to all people who say "it infringes on my right to do what I want".
No one is telling you what to do. No one is saying you need to buy an expensive ranged weapon. No one is saying that if you can do something else useful, you should waste action shooting with a poor DEX.
It would help if you listened to what people were actually saying.
A bow is cheap. A sling is free, weighs nothing, and you can scrounge up ammo from anywhere. Often you will have something more useful than shooting a rock from a sling, especially as you get higher and higher levels. But, having the option of shooting a rock instead of doing nothing is only a plus, it does not weigh you down, and it does not make you not use more efficient actions when you have the chance.
The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.
Because if I'm at range I won't be shooting, I'll be Hexing.
It would help if you listened to what people were actually saying.
It would also help if you realized that 90% of the responses after page 2, including all the people saying "I do what I want" like you're complaining about, are people being silly and not meant to be taken seriously.
The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.
That is the time for wonderful roleplaying opportunities, or more important snack/bathroom runs!
Because I used up all my starting funds on 100 lbs of mundane gear with uses limited only by your imagination.
... also because I forgot about the existence of slings...
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The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.
There might be situations where what you say is true.
But I don't think I 've ever been in one.If there's a flying foe who is attacking with ranged attacks or spells for example.
If the flying beast is a melee it's not that easy any more. A readied attack with a reach weapon adjacent to the most likely target might be better.
because this is MERICA and you cant tell me what to buy and what to do. I am a melee character plain and simple. if I have to fire range I will sit down kick my feet up and let our glass cannon deal with it for a change.If someone in my group did this, risking the other characters life because "they like to", we'd probably kick the character out of the group, because we want someone who is capable in combat - not someone who's a stubborn ass that just knows how to swing an axe.
If you as a player kept doing stuff like that, I don't think we'd welcome you to the table anymore.
okay you just make me a list of what things I have to do to play my character the way you want me to. is it okay if I pick my own feats? or do you want me to max out my heal skill just in case?
the bottom line is there is no reason that any character should ever have to not be true to there concept. if i want to play a face punching Barb i am under no obligation to carry any ranged weapon what so ever. this reeks of bad wrong fun.
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Let me share a backwards story. I play a gunslinger I have a STR of 10 we had a underwater battle. I was absolutely worthless i even had a +1 underwater fighting sword but missed every other time. you know what i ended up doing? I dropped my gear grabbed a but-ton of potions and swam them to my party and was the potion medic.
my point is a character shouldn't be forced to use a weapon he is absolutely terrible with just so you are happy it was frustrating to me and no fun at all.
226 posts and counting. Wow, I would never have guessed this subject would bring in this many posts.
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Let me share a backwards story. I play a gunslinger I have a STR of 10 we had a underwater battle. I was absolutely worthless i even had a +1 underwater fighting sword but missed every other time. you know what i ended up doing? I dropped my gear grabbed a but-ton of potions and swan them to my party and was the potion medic.
my point is a character shouldn't be forced to use a weapon he is absolutely terrible with just so you are happy it was frustrating to me and no fun at all.
Indeed. There is no such thing as "unable to do anything" even if it's as simple as getting to cover so that no healing resources are used up on you that is still beneficial to the group as a whole. There is more effective and less effective.
Me using a pretty lousy secondary weapon on critters built to do what they do and do it well? Less effective.
Me creating a situation through cleverness and common sense where everyone is more effective and the critters are less effective? More effective.
It's not that having a ranged weapon isn't handy. It's just that I rarely find myself in a position where that's the best option.
...because I throw the halfing.
...none of my spells have a range of "touch" or require a ranged touch attack.
C'mon, even Aragorn used a bow...
...once.
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because this is MERICA and you cant tell me what to buy and what to do. I am a melee character plain and simple. if I have to fire range I will sit down kick my feet up and let our glass cannon deal with it for a change.If someone in my group did this, risking the other characters life because "they like to", we'd probably kick the character out of the group, because we want someone who is capable in combat - not someone who's a stubborn ass that just knows how to swing an axe.
If you as a player kept doing stuff like that, I don't think we'd welcome you to the table anymore.
So if someone played a char with dex 8 who would use a sling to miss his opponents at range round after round that would be ok but someone standing beside the ranged readying his attacks in case something comes near would not be ok?
Or would the "sit down and kick my feet up" part have to be meant seriously to get thrown out?
I didn't mean "do this once and you're kicked out", I meant if your attitude was "I do melee, anything else I won't participate in because i don't like it" means such a character wouldn't be kept around for long. Readying vs, attacks, reloading someones crossbow, reading a scroll of bless, heck, pushing the wagon in front of the party to give cover - heck, do whatever, but if your attitude is "i do what i want to do, even if it puts the party in danger - if i don't feel like doing X, I won't" that's not a character we'd keep around for long.
And most dex8 character who'd try to use a sling would 1. have better things to do or 2. really consider what their character does. I mean, that has to be a VERY rare situation.
We could probably stomach it if it was an important part of a character that was otherwise very useful - say, some super-religious fighter that thought ranged combat immoral, but was very effective otherwise, though that is a central part of the character. If someone was just "hey, i don't like it, so i won't do it" - would that be someone YOU would go adventuring with?
EDIT: And I didn't say we should kick the player because of a suboptimal build - I said that if they player kept doing characters with bad attitudes on purpose, despite the characters being kicked-out of the party in-game, we'd not invite that person (because why would we, if they'd just come up with another character that tries to get the party killed?).
Because I have no arms!
I am not allowed to take weapons here.
...because my campaign started with a shipwreck, and I haven't had a chance to make one yet.
Hmm whats the range increment on throwing a crab?
The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.
I have had 1st level characters kill goblins with slings before now. While everyone wondered what to do about the running critter about to raise the alarm because they 'could not afford' a ranged weapon or get over his barricade easily, I twirled it about and beaned him right on the noggin - and with a caster. Good days!
As stated before, its the ability to do something over nothing. One PC with a bad missile weapon is an annoyance. Everyone in the party using a missile weapon is a deadly barrage. Numbers count.
...because my campaign started with a shipwreck, and I haven't had a chance to make one yet.Hmm whats the range increment on throwing a crab?
I don't know, but my Monday group's Monk could tell you the range on a stingray. Though it's probably got better aerodynamics than a crab. (I believe the throw was about 15 feet or so. It's been a few weeks since.)
...of stupidity.
The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.As stated before, its the ability to do something over nothing. One PC with a bad missile weapon is an annoyance. Everyone in the party using a missile weapon is a deadly barrage. Numbers count.
A deadly barrage of d4s that each have a low chance to hit! I see your point about how if it's the only other option you have besides saying "I just pass turn", you might as well, but at the same time it'd probably be better for you to just try to take a third option, as both of those suck. Maybe consider a tactical retreat to an area that's more advantageous, or wait and see if whatever is harassing you gets cocky and slips up when it can't go anything to you because of cover.
On a side note; the whole running away to raise the alarm scenario does come up occasionally, but it always makes me wonder how oblivious the enemies a few rooms down are that they don't hear the screams, clashing of steel, or feel the tremors from massive fiery explosions :O
Because i really wanted a great sword and figured one would drop in a bandit camp
I don't carry a ranged weapon because...I throw a tibbit ninja at the enemy. >:D
The problem is if you do not even have a sling, you can end up standing around doing nothing in some situations, and that will annoy your team to no end.As stated before, its the ability to do something over nothing. One PC with a bad missile weapon is an annoyance. Everyone in the party using a missile weapon is a deadly barrage. Numbers count.A deadly barrage of d4s that each have a low chance to hit! I see your point about how if it's the only other option you have besides saying "I just pass turn", you might as well, but at the same time it'd probably be better for you to just try to take a third option, as both of those suck. Maybe consider a tactical retreat to an area that's more advantageous, or wait and see if whatever is harassing you gets cocky and slips up when it can't go anything to you because of cover.
On a side note; the whole running away to raise the alarm scenario does come up occasionally, but it always makes me wonder how oblivious the enemies a few rooms down are that they don't hear the screams, clashing of steel, or feel the tremors from massive fiery explosions :O
Do you imagine players who failed to pick up a ranged attack of some kind are the kind of players likely to take 'a third option' ?
