Contributor
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Hey all,
If I could get Razor Coast out (that's still a BIG if - no promises), what would you say is ok for me to leave out?
I'm assuming if its even possible that not everything can fit. So would it be:
A. Less art, if that's what it takes.
Just get me my book!
B. Lou, pass on your last edit. I'll deal with some typos.
Just get me my book!
C. If you have to, skimp on a map or two. I can draw my own.
Just get me my book, already!
D. I don't need my art in color. B&W is just fine.
E. Don't bother updating the Indulgences, creating a player's guide, etc. etc. Just get me my @#$%&# book!
F. Razor Coast? What's that?
G. At this point, Lou, stick Razor Coast where the sun don't shine.
What do you think?
E, but that's just me.
Wishing you luck, Lou.
A, D, and E.
In order of least important to most important. B, A, D, E, C.
I would never tell you to stick Razor Coast where the sun don't shine. I need the light to read it!
In order of importance: E, A, D
I am somewhat confused about this initial post since I learned the following today and posted in another thread:
This project has been raised from the dead. More news is coming by October 20th. Let me say that has been picked up a great third-party publisher and will be going into Kickstarter in December.
Razor Coast will be a full-color hardcover as a sandbox-style, mini-campaign setting and toolkit that helps GMs create a rich, age of sail flavored adventure path. It will be complete experience for both Pathfinder and unnamed ruleset.
I think all of you will be very pleased with the company that Nick is now working with on this project.
Furthermore, here is quote from my source which I won't reveal at this time in the pending press release. "This is going to be a hardcover, full color extravaganza, complete with Player's Guide and enough swag to sink any pirate ship!"
Is this a red herring to gauge initial interest before the announcement?
H
Do it right. This has years of hype behind it. If you don't believe you can deliver on that then don't do it at all.
Then again, you could do a kickstarter around the start of the year when people are getting their tax returns. Start off small and make items A through E stretch goals. Just a thought.
EDIT: talk about getting ninja'd
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(Don't make 'B' a stretch goal.)
That would be pretty funny though. "If we raise 20K, I'll use spell check!!"
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Contributor
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Hey Zarathos,
Nope it's not. It's three things:
1. It's me trying to determine my level of involvement depending on some of the things being discussed as to _how_ Razor Coast might be delivered.
As a rule, I only like to commit my time to things that will make the people who buy them happy. Like jump up and down, do a jig happy.
2. It's me trying to figure out what would be ok to cut corners on if it did come out. And I reiterate my "if" -- no Kickstarter is guaranteed to fund. So even a Kickstarter project would only be a maybe. Not a promise.
3. And it's me trying to gather information on which to base decisions, while respecting the confidentiality wishes of those contemplating the kickstarter.
So I'll say it outright, Zarathos is right. A kickstarter for Razor Coast is contemplated. And still in the planning phases.
But I'm an "I'll believe it when I see it..." kind of guy, especially with Razor Coast (given its history). So I'll admit there actually _is_ a kickstarter, when I see the page go live.
That said, Zarathos, you didn't answer the question: where do you think it'd be ok to cut corners?
In order:
E, D, A, B, C.
Woo-hoo!
@Louis
I really like this product concept; so my gut reaction is no corners will have to be cut; but that is only because of what I know about this particular third-party publisher.
If I had to choose a corner that had to be cut; I would choose D because I like old school B&W.
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Contributor
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Hey Callous Jack,
I'll tackle your questions one at a time:
1. Indulgences are short support pieces that came out for Razor Coast in the 3.5 system. They included player-centric pieces -- one titled "The Art of the Duel" -- was very popular. Also pieces on the Shark God Dajobas, Eater of Worlds, short adventures by Richard Pett, Greg Vaughan and others, an article on Underwater Adventuring by Wolfgang Baur...etc., etc. There were 8 all told, averaging 5-7 pages each -- about the length of a SGG piece. Originally sold as PDF only. Top notch art.
2. The book has been thoroughly edited by me. It was crunch checked by John Ling. Two professional proofreaders, myself, and John read through it. I'm concerned it would still benefit by including a chapter on instantiating your own Razor Coast adventure path and some tools to make that easier to do.
3. We do have art and maps -- and some pretty amazing art at that -- but it really needs a bit more, along with a few more maps. Then there is the whole "not necessary" but "nice to have" level of art and maps.
Lou
A, B, D and E. (Normally I'd say edit, edit, edit and then edit again, but it sounds like you've already done that.)
I'll be interested to see how a Kickstarter will dovetail with the pre-orders still held by stubborn folks like Dark Mistress and myself. Like, will that convert to "new Kickstarter pledge + $30?" or would we need to request a refund from one source and then pledge to the "new" project from the ground up?
E
But to be honest, I would rather seen it done "right" if it may actually see the light of day. Here's hoping!
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E
But to be honest, I would rather seen it done "right" if it may actually see the light of day. Here's hoping!
This more accurate to how I feel.
I never pre-ordered so I was never burnt, but I would rather throw some money into a Kickstarter and have the whole kit-n-kaboodle than cut something out.
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Hey Callous Jack,
I'll tackle your questions one at a time:
1. Indulgences are short support pieces that came out for Razor Coast in the 3.5 system. They included player-centric pieces -- one titled "The Art of the Duel" -- was very popular. Also pieces on the Shark God Dajobas, Eater of Worlds, short adventures by Richard Pett, Greg Vaughan and others, an article on Underwater Adventuring by Wolfgang Baur...etc., etc. There were 8 all told, averaging 5-7 pages each -- about the length of a SGG piece. Originally sold as PDF only. Top notch art.
2. The book has been thoroughly edited by me. It was crunch checked by John Ling. Two professional proofreaders, myself, and John read through it. I'm concerned it would still benefit by including a chapter on instantiating your own Razor Coast adventure path and some tools to make that easier to do.
3. We do have art and maps -- and some pretty amazing art at that -- but it really needs a bit more, along with a few more maps. Then there is the whole "not necessary" but "nice to have" level of art and maps.
Lou
Thanks Lou.
Two more questions (sorry).
-I'm trying to find a product description but what content does this product currently contain? Is is a world guide, a DMG, a rulebook, etc.?
-You mentioned a player's guide, updating the Indulgences and a chapter on instantiating your own Razor Coast adventure path and some tools to make that easier to do. If these chapters/articles were not done now, could/would they be done in the future?
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A or B. Please leave the maps in (Sean MacDonald had done the initial maps for RC and they truly look professional quality).
What would happen to Fire as She Bears? Would that be included in the base product or is it likely to be a stretch goal?
Although the delays with this have left a bad taste in folks mouth, I'd love to see an expansion scenario as a stretch goal. I was a patron of Blood of the Gorgon and have never had a problem with Nick's writing. RC is pretty large on its own, but it would be nice to see a sequel or prequel scenario if the Kickstarter does well enough.
A,B, D, E- heck, i'll take it in whatever form its in currently.
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Although the delays with this have left a bad taste in folks mouth, I'd love to see an expansion scenario as a stretch goal. I was a patron of Blood of the Gorgon and have never had a problem with Nick's writing. RC is pretty large on its own, but it would be nice to see a sequel or prequel scenario if the Kickstarter does well enough.
What and where is Blood of the Gorgon?
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Although the delays with this have left a bad taste in folks mouth, I'd love to see an expansion scenario as a stretch goal. I was a patron of Blood of the Gorgon and have never had a problem with Nick's writing. RC is pretty large on its own, but it would be nice to see a sequel or prequel scenario if the Kickstarter does well enough.What and where is Blood of the Gorgon?
It was published in 2008 by Kobold Press as a limited edition, Patron only adventure for D&D 3.5. The info page at KP can be found at http://www.wolfgangbaur.com/projects/Blood_of_the_Gorgon.php
It is classic Logue at his most creative, operatic, and goriest best. Without giving much away, I will say that it has one of the most unusual villains I have ever seen in an adventure. Think Phantom of the Opera mixed with Fight Club and a strong dose of Sweeney Todd. An odd mix I know, but Nick makes it work. It requires a smart dm, but it is a great adventure for an Urban setting. I would love to see it updated to Pathfinder one day (but the nature of the patronage may not allow it). Folks who like alchemist characters would love this adventure, although any group of adventurers will have a fun (if deadly) time with it.
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Contributor
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Hey Callous Jack,
No worries, but we're starting to wander into areas that it's really not my place to talk about. Wish I could. A kickstarter is contemplated and a plan is being explored, but I'd get in trouble if I started speculating about a hypothetical. :)
And I _really_ don't want to say anything about Razor Coast that isn't a straight up fact.
But I can say this: As written, the Razor Coast manuscript is a combination campaign setting and adventure path, designed to take characters from about 5th to 13th level. It's highly non-linear. No two campaigns should ever play out the same way.
In flavor, Razor Coast is Sword & Sorcery meets Age of Sail Pirates, salted with a unique blend of the Caribe/Polynesian. It features weresharks and naval battles, treasure maps, exploration, dark conspiracies and darker horrors.
The two main villains are a cast out Shark God (Dajobas - Devourer of Worlds) and Harthagoa the Krakenfiend - unholy spawn of Demogorgon and a She-Kraken.
And it has undead cannibal pygmies.
A,B,D & E for me. I love maps///
I love rumors:)
Oh. OH.
I love rumors:)Oh. OH.
Huh? OH.
A & D for me, especially D.
"Color art" and "more art" would make excellent stretch goals for Kickstarter. So would E, for that matter.
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The two main villains are a cast out Shark God (Dajobas - Devourer of Worlds) and Harthagoa the Krakenfiend - unholy spawn of Demogorgon and a She-Kraken.
I would wager than any actual release would have to change the identity of the daddy.
Then again, if all you say is that they are the spawn of Demogorgon, maybe not. After all, the name itself is NOT WotC's IP, only the imagery of Demogorgon as having two mandril heads sprouting from twin snake-like necks, with arms ending in long tentacles, etc.
If you just say "Demogorgon" and let the GM fill in those blanks, it would still be perfectly acceptable.
I'll be happy to contribute to whatever eventuates. Having said that, my view is that if you were to compromise on any of the production qualities you'll end up with disgruntled backers. It seems to me that, after all this time, if it isnt exceptional there will be grumbling. Even though (given the project's history) it's remarkable that it's even a possibility, nonetheless people are not always super-rational.
My advice would be to ensure it's done to a superb standard. That way the experience will be "Well it took ages, but I'm so glad it's here!"
In answer to your question though, if you have to drop something:
I'd drop the "extras" first, then the color, then cut back on the art, then the maps. (So I guess that's E-D-A-C in order?).
I, as on the die-hard no-refund crowd, agree with "do it right" sentiment.
I really want this book and it would be a damn shame if it were done anything less than up to the standard it deserves.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
I want it! I want it in PF rules, and I want it converted to be set in Golarion. That is all :-)
A & D
I wasn't in on the original pre-order, but I would certainly back a RC Kickstarter if Lou continued to be involved.
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It was published in 2008 by Kobold Press as a limited edition, Patron only adventure for D&D 3.5. The info page at KP can be found at http://www.wolfgangbaur.com/projects/Blood_of_the_Gorgon.php
It is classic Logue at his most creative, operatic, and goriest best. Without giving much away, I will say that it has one of the most unusual villains I have ever seen in an adventure. Think Phantom of the Opera mixed with Fight Club and a strong dose of Sweeney Todd. An odd mix I know, but Nick makes it work. It requires a smart dm, but it is a great adventure for an Urban setting. I would love to see it updated to Pathfinder one day (but the nature of the patronage may not allow it). Folks who like alchemist characters would love this adventure, although any group of adventurers will have a fun (if deadly) time with it.
Thanks Tzzarg!
Drat, so I can't buy it now?