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I really like the flavor of the Dirty Trick combat maneuver, and was hoping to know all my options for optimizing it for PFS play to blind foes for multiple rounds. Here's what I've got so far:
18 in Str or Dex (w/ Agile Maneuvers) for +4 (20 in a stat isn't effective at 1st level)
Shoanti Race Trait for +1 to manuevers/Intimdate
Heirloom Weapon Trait for +2 to Dirty Trick when wielding that specific weapon (with the masterwork transformation spell to allow it to be magical later on)
Improved Dirty Trick for +2
Greater Dirty Trick for +2
Lore Warden Fighter level 3 for +2 to all maneuvers (Cad archetype gives +3 by level 10 I know, and a free trick at level 7, so its a maybe)
Daredevil Bard level 2 for +2 to Dirty Trick
By level 6, +2 stat belt for another +1 to maneuvers (4000gp)
Ioun stone for insight to AC+wayfinder for +1 to maneuvers (5250gp)
That's all I've got, planned to level 7 as a Dex based bard 4/fighter 3. With all of that, he'll have a +23 for Dirty Trick (+24 if the judge allows the masterwork enhancement to work which isn't RAW), +15 to all other maneuvers without further modification.
Anything I missed? Would a maneuver master monk be better or something else?
I thought PFS didn't allow Masterwork Transformation for some stupid reason that doesn't make any sense.
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the only thing i see with a MM monk is the ability to use dirty trick as part of an full attack action, you would need 7 levels for a serious pay off.
and since it looks like you want spell casting i would just stick with the bard if no other reason then to buy scrolls/wands and the group bonus to hit/damage.
damn i thought about it then remembered the dirty fighter archetype for half orcs, but you cant play it in PFS
Dirty Trick is terribad until Greater Dirty Trick, so I'd try for BAB +6 ASAP. That probably means Lore Warden Fighter 6, before considering multiclassing at all.
I've a Maneuver Master / Weapon Adept Monk that just got Improved Dirty Trick, so I'm dotting this for interest.
huh? sorry steam im missing your train of thought. blinding someone and forcing them to waste a move action to remove it? seems like a completely useful maneuver.
Because you wasted a standard action to maybe force him to waste his move action?
I'm building a Cad fighter to focus on Dirty tricks and Grappling, putting ultimate equipment to good use.
When you get the gold for it, Burglar's Buckler (p130 of UC), gives a +2 Competence on Dirty Tricks.
Feats outside of the hardbooks I won't be allowed so I have little interest beyond them. Enjoy your dirty tricks.
Always be smoking or using some sort of tobacco like product. A cigar in the eyes or in the mouth yields instant blinding or sickening respectively. Lighting one in the dark with your eyes shut is a dazzle, should you feel like dazzling anybody.
Alternatively you could spit your chewing tobacco in their face, also sickening or blinding.
One thing I really like about the Buckler (and the Cad) is using improvised weaponry to aid in your dirty tricks. Change it into a spoked wagon wheel and beat with an improvised weapon or entangle their hands in the spokes.
You can also make small barrel open at one end to either fight with two handed or plop down over their head for the the blinded condition. If it's a big enough barrel and open in the center, over their torso for entangling.
A paper bag is a simple thing to use for either the blinded (over the head) deafened (inflated and popped) or shaken (inflated and popped) conditions.
Have fun with your dirty tricks! I don't know how well these will fly for PFS, but good luck with any of 'em.
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The latest PFS guide allows one instance of Masterwork Transformation per character.
Thanks for the note on the Burglar's Buckler... could be useful if I choose the non-monk route for sure. Great ideas for the tactics Pharmalade!
Losing out on the +4 from the daredevil bard and the lore warden fighter seems rough, although there is the +Wisdom modifier bonus 1/round and the ki fueled reroll, and AC would take a hit vs the monk. 18 Dex and 16 Wis would have the monk at a base of 19 that's harder to upgrade, whereas the bard/fighter would be able to get the 18 Dex with a chain shirt and a heavy darkwood shield with dodge and shield focus... without enchantments, that's a constant 22 with the cheap armor/shield enhancements bringing it to 24 for $2k. Although the monk could benefit from losing a feat (maybe Weapon Finesse, as he'd pretty much only be using maneuvers anyway) for the human racial substitute for an extra +2 to a stat (in this case Wisdom).
Monk 7 would have 8 select-able feats (plus Improved Unarmed Strike and Stunning Fist) compared to the bard 4/fighter 3's 7 select-able feats (plus Combat Expertise).
They'd both have Agile Maneuvers, Weapon Finesse, Improved Dirty Trick, Dodge, Greater Dirty Trick, Improved (Trip or Disarm)and Combat Reflexes, and the fighter would have Shield Focus on top of those.
For maneuvers, the monk would have full 7 BAB (+5 normal) compared to the +6/+1 BAB of the fighter bard. The monk would be at -4 to Dirty Trick, but would be able to get the +3 or +4 back through the as a swift action once per round. Seems like a toss up.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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huh? sorry steam im missing your train of thought. blinding someone and forcing them to waste a move action to remove it? seems like a completely useful maneuver.
Sort of depends on whether you are fighting solo or in a party fellow adventurers who might be able to take advantage of a blind enemy.
Dueling weapon adds twice your enhancement bonus to CMB for dirty trick, good for an eventually easy +10.
prototype00
I prefer the H-Orc skulking slayer rogue/Lore warden.
They can make a dirty trick or steal anytime they can get a sneak attack, so they get it as first thing on iteratives after BAB +6. Also, get a +1/sneak die on dirty trick, +1 1/2 per sneak die on steal.
Wow, holy crap is that a terrible archetype for rogues!
As a 1 level dip for that dirty trick in the full attack routine, though, it's somewhat promising. Certainly on par w/ Maneuver Master Monk for that.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Be aware that unless you have something that gives you a specific exception, the Dirty Trick maneuver does not use a weapon and therefore does not benefit from weapon-specific bonuses (such as enhancement bonuses, Weapon Focus, Heirloom Weapon, etc).
I prefer the H-Orc skulking slayer rogue/Lore warden.
They can make a dirty trick or steal anytime they can get a sneak attack, so they get it as first thing on iteratives after BAB +6. Also, get a +1/sneak die on dirty trick, +1 1/2 per sneak die on steal.Wow, holy crap is that a terrible archetype for rogues!
As a 1 level dip for that dirty trick in the full attack routine, though, it's somewhat promising. Certainly on par w/ Maneuver Master Monk for that.
I beg to differ. It has quite a bit of options for things. Also, pair it with Scout, and you get +Xd8 on a charge or a dirty trick or steal.
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By my $.02, Greater Dirty Trick is nice, but Quick Dirty Trick is the one that sells it. If you've got rogue levels, you can blind the enemy and then use the rest of your full attack to sneak attack. Sadly none of this comes online until you can get two or more attacks in a full attack. Rogues have to wait until 8th level to get BAB +6, or TWf, which means they won't have enough feats until 7th at least.
I'd say Lore Warden or Cad fighter until you can pick up Greater, Quick, and a second attack (through TWF or BAB). From there you can dip into rogue (or Sandman bard) or stay with fighter and just enjoy the ability to blind, sicken, and entangle somebody all in one round.
You can do multiple dirty tricks in one round, can't you?
