Badoom ChWhat would you recommend to get started?A Wizard
Honestly, can you imagine a thread called "STR-based wizard build" ?
Awww, I was expecting a link to a thread titled "STR-based wizard build".
An elven (+2 Dex, +2 Int) crossbowman (fighter archetype) with Focused Shot. You get to add both your Int modifier AND your Dex modifier on damage rolls associated with attacks performed as part of a readied action.
Here's how I would build an elven crossbowman (15 points):
Str 12 (because armors are heavy as hell)
Dex 16 (increase at level 4,8,12,16 and 20)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 7
Feats
1st lvl: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2nd lvl: Focused Shot
3rd lvl: Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow)
4th lvl: Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)
5th lvl: Weapon Specialization (Heavy Crossbow)
6th lvl: Deadly Aim
7th lvl: Improved Initiative
8th lvl: Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow)
Split your money between a magic crossbow, a heandband of Int, a belt of Dex and a magic armor. You're going to be the bane of all spellcasters who didn't cast Wind Wall before the initiative is rolled. :)
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An elven (+2 Dex, +2 Int) crossbowman (fighter archetype) with Focused Shot. You get to add both your Int modifier AND your Dex modifier on damage rolls associated with attacks performed as part of a readied action.
Here's how I would build an elven crossbowman (15 points):
Str 12 (because armors are heavy as hell)
Dex 16 (increase at level 4,8,12,16 and 20)
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 12
Cha 7Feats
1st lvl: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2nd lvl: Focused Shot
3rd lvl: Rapid Reload (Heavy Crossbow)
4th lvl: Weapon Focus (Heavy Crossbow)
5th lvl: Weapon Specialization (Heavy Crossbow)
6th lvl: Deadly Aim
7th lvl: Improved Initiative
8th lvl: Improved Critical (Heavy Crossbow)Split your money between a magic crossbow, a heandband of Int, a belt of Dex and a magic armor. You're going to be the bane of all spellcasters who didn't cast Wind Wall before the initiative is rolled. :)
This seems really interesting. I like this idea.
What skills would you choice?
This seems really interesting. I like this idea.
What skills would you choice?
Stealth (for sniping)
Climb (for reaching otherwise inaccessible locations and start sniping)Ride (I would probably take Leadership to get a decent mount)
Acrobatics (for tumbling out of dire situations)
The 5th skill would depend on the kind of campaing I'm playing in (pirates campaing = swim, wilderness campaing = survival, urban campaing = diplomacy, bluff ,intimidate or sense motive, etc.) and the skills that are already covered by other members of the party.
just to note re the crossbowman - he gets to add 1/2 his DEX not his full DEX to readied action attacks with his crossbow (at level 3)
Focused Shot has some serious limitations to consider:
1 - it is a Standard Action attack to you lose future iterative attacks
2 - you have to be within 30' of the target so you lose out on one of the key benefits of being a ranged fighter (being effective at range)
The crossbowman archetype gets a bunch of other benefits in place of armor and weapon training - some are nifty but do mean that the crowwbowman is relatively rigid - doesn't have the flexibility of many other archetypes or general fighters.
Yeah, it's a sub-optimal built, like any Int-focused Fighter. However, you get full Dex bonus on damage rolls at level 11 and those bonus are not limited by range (this is why I'm suggesting that you should raise your Dex, and not your Int, while leveling up). A readied action is always a standard action (or a move action), so using Focused Shot as a readied action won't hurt you if you always ready your action to get your Dex modifier on damage rolls.
However, you have to know that this character is going to be useless if your GM do not throw spellcasters against you. The coolest ability of the crossbowman, Meteor Shot, comes into play far to late to be of any use (at the level, you won't me able to beat the CMD of the monsters you are fighting, unless they're medium humanoid with class levels).
I think Lore Wardens which are another fighter archetype that can benefit from INT can be pretty effective builds - in no small part because due to the combo of extra skill points, all INT skills as class skills and a likely high INT they can play a lot of skill monkey roles out of combat and a tactical "knowledge checks for the win" role in combat (not just to activate their class skills but even before that to help their party know what they are fighting). With the right selection of weapons, combat maneuvers and feats they can be highly effective and have a very real impact in most combats.
I have heard a lot about the Lore Warden, but I don't even know in which book this archetype is featured. Is it in the Inner Sea campaing setting book?
"Editor's note: James Jacobs has stated that the white-haired witch's grab, trip, constrict and pull abilities should be swift actions, not free actions. GMs are encouraged to use these rules, though an official FAQ has not yet been written on this topic."
!!!!!!!!
WTF?!!!!
It's not a rule. It has not been errata'd, FAQ'd, or anything. JJ, by his own admission, does not write the rules. What is this garbage doing here?
Making them swift actions turns an already grossly nerfed (compared to normal class) archetype into a complete joke!
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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"Editor's note: James Jacobs has stated that the white-haired witch's grab, trip, constrict and pull abilities should be swift actions, not free actions. GMs are encouraged to use these rules, though an official FAQ has not yet been written on this topic."
!!!!!!!!
WTF?!!!!
It's not a rule. It has not been errata'd, FAQ'd, or anything. JJ, by his own admission, does not write the rules. What is this garbage doing here?
Making them swift actions turns an already grossly nerfed (compared to normal class) archetype into a complete joke!
That "garbage" is there because it is our policy to let people know when there is a rule that's been called into question by Paizo's leaders. We know that James Jacobs isn't the God of Pathfinder, but he does have some credentials over there. That's why it's an editor's note, and we didn't change the text, because we ONLY change the text of a rule if it's been officially FAQ'd or it changes on Paizo's SRD site.
Would you like to suggest a better way to inform people of things like this than the way we do it?
What would you recommend to get started?A Wizard
Honestly, can you imagine a thread called "STR-based wizard build" ?
Do you mean something similar to this one?
Side question for the crossbow sniper above can you ready a vital strike? If so i would strongly suggest adding the feat chain.
Side question for the crossbow sniper above can you ready a vital strike? If so i would strongly suggest adding the feat chain.
Yes, yes you can, but you can't use Vital Strike and Focused Shot at the same time, it's one or the other.
Using Vital Strike instead of Focused Shot would let your drop your Int and raise other ability scores instead, but since the OP asked for ideas/suggestions about an Int-based Fighter, I suggested Focused Shot.
I believe that a Vital Strike built would be stronger in a low ability scores, low magic and/or low wealth by level campaing while a Focused Shot built would benefit more from a high ability scores, high magic and/or high wealth by level campaing.
The Vital Strike chain becomes even more interesting if you can cast Gravity Bow on your Heavy Crossbow, raising it's base damage to 2d8 + modifiers.
Yes, yes you can, but you can't use Vital Strike and Focused Shot at the same time, it's one or the other.
Can you point me to the source for this? The discussion on the forums about Vital Strike and Charge refer to Vital Strike and Cleave being discussed in an FAQ, but I can't seem to find it.
Would you like to suggest a better way to inform people of things like this than the way we do it?
By not including it? Or at least not saying GMs are "encouraged" to use this "rule"...?
It's not a rule. It's his opinion.
I do like d20pfsrd's editors notes when they're used to point out blatant discrepencies. Like when a monster's damage value or Fly modifier is clearly wrong. That's math errors. There's no grey area with math, it's either true or false.
Those kind of editors notes for comments that are not actually rules / FAQs is overstepping, however, IMO.
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Here's an idea for a straight fighter that is (more or less) "Intelligence-based". I used a 20 point buy and went the route of exploring the Combat Expertise feat tree in combination with the use of the Heavy Flail:
Human Fighter 10
Starting scores:
STR 14
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 16
WIS 13
CHA 10
Bump Strength at 4th and 8th level for STR 16
FEATS:
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Improved Disarm
Combat Reflexes
Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail
Greater Trip
Greater Disarm
Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail
Improved Critical
Tripping Strike
Disarming Strike
Critical Focus
Fighter Weapon Training start in Flails
This character can either be light and mobile or clomp around in heavy armor. He de-buffs enemies by disarming them and/or tripping them, then gets additional AOOs when they try to stand back up or pick up their weapons.
He only needs an INT of 13 in combat, but the extra points allow him to have lots of useful skills to give him something to do outside of combat.
Further useful Feats include Drag Down (in case someone tries to trip you back), Power Attack, Stand Still, Step Up, Weapon Specialization
Can you point me to the source for this? The discussion on the forums about Vital Strike and Charge refer to Vital Strike and Cleave being discussed in an FAQ, but I can't seem to find it.
Yes, yes you can, but you can't use Vital Strike and Focused Shot at the same time, it's one or the other.
Source? Sure, go read Vital Strike (CRB) and Focused Shot (APG) descriptions. Both require a standard action to perform, and you can ready a standard action.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Would you like to suggest a better way to inform people of things like this than the way we do it?By not including it? Or at least not saying GMs are "encouraged" to use this "rule"...?
It's not a rule. It's his opinion.
I do like d20pfsrd's editors notes when they're used to point out blatant discrepencies. Like when a monster's damage value or Fly modifier is clearly wrong. That's math errors. There's no grey area with math, it's either true or false.
Those kind of editors notes for comments that are not actually rules / FAQs is overstepping, however, IMO.
Okay, maybe the word "encouraged" shouldn't be used in this case, fair point. But we're trying to keep every player informed as much as possible, and that rule has been called into question, so I feel very strongly that it's important to point that out. I'll adjust the wording a little bit, though.
Alright. Thank you.
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Int Based fighter....
Easy.
Unarmed Figher 1 Level, then Master of Many Styles 2 levels, then either fighter or ranger til the cows come home.
Level 1 Unarmed Fighter Feat - Kirin Style, Level 2 MoMS - Kirin Strike, Level 3 MoMs - Kirin Path
+2 to knowledge checks. After identifying the type of monster (as a swift action) you are fighting - you get + int bonusx2 to damage (swift action), moving to potentially flank a hostile creature without need for combat maneuvers, acrobatics checks, or threats of aoos, and +2 to saves. Great!
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..like to think most players aren't quite so simple-minded..
I think that thirty years ago, this was the case..
.. when "role-play" was something you did rather than a meaningless label or a category which seldom seems to have relevance to what is in it.
But, there was a RPG once called "Commando," in which players are placed in a situation similar to, say, that depicted in the "Dirty Dozen (movie)."
For the most part, what I see players doing these days is more like a variation on that sort of theme, but in a medieval-ish setting.
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What would you recommend to get started? Every build I'm used to has been either dex or strength based.
In my opinion there are many ways this may be done (as evidenced by some of the thoughtful replies in this thread).
Speaking for myself, I might mix it up between something arcane, and perhaps include fighter as well as rogue.
It is all about the feats and abilities and strategy & tactics therewith.
And, of course, much more fun to make something workable in a novel way.
Since it has been so long since this thread was written, I would be interested to learn what you did and how did it go?
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Int based fighter? Sounds like someone just watched Dorkness Rising.
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With the "message board lawyers" either sayin "this thread is too old.." or "don't start a new thread if there is one already.."
pft - I'll ignore such commentaries hencefourth.
Now, back on topic..
I personally think it is a cool idea for a Int based Fighter..
as it happened, I was pondering the same until a stumbled across this thread.
And this baby is alive an kicking so long as there is any benefit to anyone who wants to see more material on this subject
keep 'em comin!
(saves me a load of time anyhow on finding this stuff all on my own)
I'm playing one for Giantslayer. 18 STR, 15 Int at lvl 4. Honestly, it's working.What would you recommend to get started?A Wizard
Honestly, can you imagine a thread called "STR-based wizard build" ?
Right now, your 18 Str costs very little. Next level, it'd going to cost you a daily casting of Haste, Fly or invisibility Sphere.
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What would you recommend to get started?A Wizard
Honestly, can you imagine a thread called "STR-based wizard build" ?