My suggestion?
Don't give them Evil Creatures to fight (all the time). Give them some tough, neutral creatures, and if they're dealing that much damage (even at 15th level, when a base creature at that level has just as much, if not slightly higher, max health than the damage he does), then don't be afraid to buff them up with some miscellaneous subtypes.
I'd say go with a Golem or Construct of some sort; make an entire campaign or two of them. Most constructs lack an alignment (which hurts the PC), their DR is nearly impossible to bypass through other means besides the proper weaponry.
Most spells (unless they do not have a Spell Resistance component) do not work on Constructs. You can also throw in some special effects (or penalties/debuffs) into the campaign setting to make their attacks and such less effective. A little debuff can go a long way (and save the skin of your monsters to make the fights more difficult).
Half the time we face against creatures, our GM has to adjust the creatures accordingly to make them tougher, weaker, larger in number, etc.
It's crazy broken with the damage they deal, but look what happens: you're giving them rounds to buff up. That's standard actions they are using up that you could be using (if possible) to try and disrupt their spellcasting. Grappling, pinning, using Combat Maneuvers can be a major weakness against these guys as well, as most players do not think about buffing their CMD (or focusing on Combat Maneuvers in general).
Another concept is to fight fire with fire: They're using some pretty powerful stuff, don't be afraid to use some (if not all) of it back onto them. Have some Good characters become mind-controlled by some other, god-like source and use some similar tactics against them. Most characters do not function that well against themselves, and this would be quite a test to see how they stand up to what they can do (which chances are, they won't do so hot).
The build is very good but ultimately he will need to cast those buffs.
-Righteous might is round per level and a standard action to cast.
-Divine power is round per level and a standard action to cast.
-Ferocious strike is great but can only be used to make a single attack per round. To be honest your lucky he didn't take rage. Then he could rage
like a barbarian and get his strength even higher.
You are going to have to watch his action economy and make sure that all his buff do in fact stack.
Also If you are playing intelligent enemies they would realize that a cleric casting a spell is bad news. So maybe hold an attack and try to interrupt the spell casting. Or perhaps they have underlings who could dispell things.
Recently, I was playing a 13th level Inquisitor that made your cleric look like a push over. The same spells plus swift action buffs. And you know what? I stopped playing the character because it just wasn't fun being that powerful. I out barbarianed the barbarian and out fought the fighter. Ultimately I changed my character concept...
Zen archers to the rescue! 1. Can act "holier than thou" for RP fun as be is a fellow religious folk. 2. Can outrun dangnear anything. 3. Can pelt with arrows. No good meleeing if you can't REACH your target.
The clerics 3 spell 3 round combo is juicy for sure, but what is he not accomplishing in those three rounds? Weigh that in. One group I was in the cleric tried the same thing. He was so set on pulling it off that the rest of the party was in tatters by the time he was done.
The first rounds of combat should be in most cases tactically important, so I hope that in most of your fights combats there are more important things to do than 3 rounds of self buffing.
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@Mage Everything: I'd be curious to have your inquisitor build, could make a though enemy. And the rage domain, he already spoke of it... the fact that you can't cast while raging is a very, very big downside to a high level cleric.
Thanks for all your inputs guys, I'll look forward a few things!
Here you go:
Male Half-Orc Inquisitor 13
LG Medium Humanoid (orc)
Init +6; Senses Darkvision; Perception +19
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 13, flat-footed 17
hp 129
Fort +15, Ref +10, Will +17
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee
+1 Cold Iron Bastard Sword +16/+11 (1d10+22/17-20/x2)
Ranged Longbow, Comp. (Str +2) +12/+7 (1d8+2/x3)
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Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 13, +14 melee touch, +12 ranged touch):
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lvl 5 (1/day) Righteous Might, Dispel Evil (DC 18)
lvl 4 (3/day) Stoneskin (DC 17), Divine Power, Invisibility, Greater (DC 17), Shared Wrath (DC 17)
lvl 3 (5/day) Magic Vestment (DC 16), Magic Weapon, Greater (DC 16), Invisibility Purge, Dispel Magic, Searing Light
lvl 2 (6/day) Restoration, Lesser (DC 15), Resist Energy (DC 15), Silence (DC 15), Knock, Ghostbane Dirge (DC 15)
lvl 1 (6/day) Divine Favor, True Strike, Hide from Undead (DC 14), Protection from Evil (DC 14), Cause Fear (DC 14), Gorum's Armor
lvl 0 (at will) Acid Splash, Resistance (DC 13), Light, Detect Magic, Create Water, Disrupt Undead
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Statistics
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Str 21/27, Dex 16, Con 14/18, Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 14
Base Atk +9; CMB +17; CMD 30
Feats
Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round), Dazzling Display (Sword, Bastard), Improved Critical (Sword, Bastard), Intimidating Prowess, Outflank, Paired Opportunists, Power Attack -3/+6, Precise Strike, Shatter Defenses (Sword, Bastard), Swap Places, Weapon Focus (Sword, Bastard)
Traits
Brute (APG), Indomitable Faith
Skills
Acrobatics +14, Bluff +8, Climb +10, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Heal +7, Intimidate +41, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Knowledge (nature) +5, Knowledge (planes) +5, Knowledge (religion) +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +19, Profession (torturer) +7, Ride +7, Sense Motive +13, Spellcraft +15, Stealth +17, Survival +13, Swim +6, Use Magic Device +5
Modifiers
Monster Lore
Languages
Abyssal, Common, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin, Infernal, Orc
SQ Helm of Fearsome Mien, Inquisitor Domain: Rage, Rage (13 rounds/day), Ring of the Ram, Second Judgement (5/day), Solo Tactics, Strength Surge +13 (1/rage), Teamwork Feat (change 3/day), Track +6
Combat Gear +3 Chain Shirt, Elf bane, Elven Chain, Empyreal Edge, hammer of light (heal/restoration all 1/day), Longbow, Comp. (Str +2), Quickdraw Shield, Light Steel, Silver Dagger, Masterwork; Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Cloak of Resistance, +2, Helm of Fearsome Mien, Ioun Stone, Pale Blue Rhomboid, Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds, Ring of Protection, +2, Ring of the Ram,
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Special Abilities
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Combat Reflexes (4 AoO/round) You may make up to 4 attacks of opportunity per round, and may make them while flat-footed.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Dazzling Display (Sword, Bastard) Intimidate check to demoralize can affect those within 30' who see you.
Destructive Smite +6 (6/day) (Su) You gain the destructive smite power: the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a morale bonus on damage rolls equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum 1). You must declare the destructive smite before making the attack. You can use
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (13 rounds/day) (Sp) Discern Lies at will
Greater Bane (+2 / 4d6) (13 rounds/day) (Su) Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
Helm of Fearsome Mien This metal helm is made to look like the wearer has horns, tusks, and other features resembling a fearsome predator. If the wearer is a barbarian, she can use the intimidating glare rage power whenever she rages. The helm has no effect if the wearer is not a barbarian (or another class with the rage class feature).
Judgement of Sacred Destruction +5 (Su) Weapon Damage bonus.
Judgement of Sacred Healing 5 (Su) Fast Healing
Judgement of Sacred Justice +3 / +6 (Su) Attack bonus
Judgement of Sacred Piercing +5 (Su) Concentration and vs. SR bonus
Judgement of Sacred Protection +3 / +6 (Su) AC bonus
Judgement of Sacred Purity +3 / +6 (Su) Save bonus
Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 3 (Evil) (Su) DR/magic
Judgement of Sacred Resistance 10 (Fire) (Su) Energy Resistances
Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic, Good, Adamantine) (Su) DR bypass
Monster Lore +9 (Ex) +9 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Outflank Flanking bonus increases to +4 if the other flanker also has this feat, and ally gets an AoO if you score a critical hit against the target.
Paired Opportunists +4 to hit for AoOs if you and an ally with this feat both threaten the target.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Precise Strike +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
Rage (13 rounds/day) (Su) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Second Judgement (5/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Stalwart (Ex) If you succeed at a Fort or Will save for reduced effect, you take none instead.
Strength Surge +13 (1/rage) (Ex) Once per rage, add +13 to a STR check, CMB or CMD.
Swap Places You can trade places with an ally with this feat during your movement.
Teamwork Feat (change 3/day) Swap your most recent Teamwork feat for another
Track +6 +6 to survival checks to track.
Every day I would cast magic weapon (+3) and magical vestments (+3 ac).
In battle I tended to buff with judgements(swift) and perhaps on the first round before I close the distance cast a spell (standard) or make a demoralization check, then next round I bane my weapon (swift) rage and power attack. This gets the damage silly high levels and if he is intimidated (and everything is intimidated when you have a +41 modifier) you only have to hit flat footed AC.
Alternatively, you could take the Enforcer Feat, and after the first hit only have to hit touch AC. While the enemy is shaken.
You're all using the wrong idea here. The big issue is that the BBEG is a SBBEG, Single Big Bad Evil Guy.
Stop throwing one enemy at them. Throw a group of enemies at them. Some ranged (to disrupt spell casting), some fast, some who hit hard. And no single BBEG, but a half-dozen smaller ones. The cleric and paladin are basically taking themselves out of the fight for the first 3 rounds, they can only do that vs a single BBEG because action economy still favors the PCs. If it's 6 BBEGL's (BIg Bad Evil Guy Light), then them taking themselves out for 3 rounds basically makes it a 6 on 2 fight. Or better yet, four on 2 (allies) and 2 on 0 (cleric/Paladin not doing anything but cast).
Multiple encounters per day before they can rest. Round based buffs are nice, and let a character shine for that combat, but if they have to run a gauntlet of encounters in a given day with some type of pressing time constraint they will be depowered (and more fun for you) at some point.
You're all using the wrong idea here. The big issue is that the BBEG is a SBBEG, Single Big Bad Evil Guy.
Stop throwing one enemy at them. Throw a group of enemies at them. Some ranged (to disrupt spell casting), some fast, some who hit hard. And no single BBEG, but a half-dozen smaller ones. The cleric and paladin are basically taking themselves out of the fight for the first 3 rounds, they can only do that vs a single BBEG because action economy still favors the PCs. If it's 6 BBEGL's (BIg Bad Evil Guy Light), then them taking themselves out for 3 rounds basically makes it a 6 on 2 fight. Or better yet, four on 2 (allies) and 2 on 0 (cleric/Paladin not doing anything but cast).
Not really.
The issue is that the OP is complaining about how his characters are hitting ridiculous amounts of damage on single targets. The other part is that he says even throwing multiples at them, their AoE spells will reduce them to nothing.
It's all about proper defenses. Constructs are immune to just about any forms of alignment and spell effects, which is the main driving power behind the party's attacks.
Another issue he isn't tackling is the Cleric's action economy; sure, he can buff, but that takes 3 rounds worth of Standard Actions. What the heck is the rest of the party and the monster(s) doing within that time? He needs to be more aggressive (and more demanding) with his monsters, because it seems like he's doing nothing to alter their strengths, or even anything with them at all while Cleric sits there and buffs and buffs and buffs. And buffs.
When you let characters buff, they're going to be a b**** to kill. We're facing this Magus right now, and since he got the down-low on us, he's buffed up, and I can agree that facing Mirror Images, Mage Armor, Shield, Haste, and his minions all at the same time is a complete nightmare. Because we didn't bother to follow down his way and try to stop him from buffing. Now he's a nightmare and he has half of our party practically dead.
What he needs to do is not have his monsters pick their noses, beef them up some, and debilitate these clowns. Dispel Magic, Grapple/Pin, Disarm, etc. All of these are key things that can severely alter the course of combat. What's that Cleric going to do without his weapon? Cast spells? What's that Paladin going to do when he's eaten by the Big Bad Dragon of Doom and Sadness? How's he going to smite when he's frozen by a Time Stop and there are 5 DBF's about to go off? What's the Cleric going to do against that?
Additionally, you can change the timeline.
Most people expect the BBEG at the end of the night. Have them go up against a BBEG encounter at the beginning of the night.
Then fight some CR appropriate scrubs with interesting abilities.
Then fight another BBEG. Lets say it's the original BBEG's younger brothers. So instead of fighting one CR 17 creature you are fighting bunch of weaker guys and their scrub minions. Only now they know your moves and the players have already used up quite a few spells and the final battle which is technically easier is more challenging.
The build is very good but ultimately he will need to cast those buffs.
-Righteous might is round per level and a standard action to cast.-Divine power is round per level and a standard action to cast.
This was my first thought as well. I played in a 2-year campaign that ended at 20th-level. Once you're up in the teens, spending 2+ rounds buffing yourself is very very risky. It means you aren't doing other critical things in those first few rounds of combat.
It's definitely powerful, but he's spending a lot of precious time setting it up.
Not really.
Yes, really.
The issue is that the OP is complaining about how his characters are hitting ridiculous amounts of damage on single targets. The other part is that he says even throwing multiples at them, their AoE spells will reduce them to nothing.
Right, but the trick only works on one guy at a time. And if you're hitting someone for 300 hp who only has 100 hp, you're wasting your time. Additionally, it's taking 3 rounds to set up, which takes us to the point below. Finally, AoE spells only work if the enemies are bunched up. They should only bunch up when they are in melee with the characters, and if the cleric blasts an AoE, he's hitting his own people (or he's using up resources for shaping it to avoid them).
It's all about proper defenses. Constructs are immune to just about any forms of alignment and spell effects, which is the main driving power behind the party's attacks.
Yes, but it becomes obvious that you're basically screwing over the players to keep them from using their abilities. Throwing multiple lower level guys at them still let's them use their abilities, but it keeps them from one-shotting encounters. Your solution of using constructs all the time basically makes the player's characters irrelevant, and blows their fun out of the water and makes them useless.
Another issue he isn't tackling is the Cleric's action economy; sure, he can buff, but that takes 3 rounds worth of Standard Actions. What the heck is the rest of the party and the monster(s) doing within that time? He needs to be more aggressive (and more demanding) with his monsters, because it seems like he's doing nothing to alter their strengths, or even anything with them at all while Cleric sits there and buffs and buffs and buffs. And buffs.
Did you even read my post? Half of it was devoted to why multiple smaller opponents made the action economy swing, yet you're correcting me saying I didn't take it into account?
Additional advice: Use dispel magic. Round based buffs are great, but they can be stripped. Antimagic field. Wild/dead magic zones. Vary it up and keep them jumping.
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One thing I've done before in my games is use level 1-3 mooks to great advantage. Arm them with shortbows, and set them up on archer towers or walls surrounding the fight. Or they just pop up out of the grass. And I mean, for 15th level characters, about 15 or 20. The basically only hit on a natural 20, but if you're rolling 20d20 a round, you're going to hit a couple of times a round, and that 1d6 damage adds up over a couple of rounds. Plus it's a major distractions. And it takes forever to stomp them all out if they're not bunched up. Also, a good thing for each to have is an acid flask or alchemists fire jar, if the PCs get close, that's touch ac. Finally, give each of them Slings, in case someone pops off a wind wall. Sling stones can actually penetrate a wind wall, where arrows can't. Less damage, but can actually get through. And all that is relatively cheap. We're talking about maybe 300 gp to equip each mook.
EDIT : This is in addition to the BBEG and his major grunts, obviously.
@ mdt
The smaller guys are still going to be easy to cut down; the OP says the characters also have functions like Cleave, Extra Reach (Lunge), etc. Cutting down one guy isn't really a smart option, when the other, much smarter option is to cut down 3-4 guys with a single Cleave attack option.
The characters are functioning on Buffs, Buffs, and more Buffs. The monsters should function on Debuffs, Debuffs, and more Debuffs to counteract this. Dispel Magic, Bane, Doom, etc. All of these spells are severely effective in reducing the Cleric back down to size (pun intended).
I only suggested Constructs because they are a surefire way to denote nearly all of their abilities, and I also said that it isn't exactly a be-all end-all solution. Fighting constructs gets boring after a while, not being able to crit 24/7 and use class features is a pain. But it's an option he has, and one that he should take to counter their stuff.
I can also suggest Spell Resistance, Traps, and facing Ethereal targets. Sure, Paladin can Smite Evil, but their damage reduction bypass doesn't affect Ethereal defenses. They don't have much of a Skill Monkey in the group apparently, so tossing a Trap or 2 at them (or Surprising them before they can even buff with a few encounters) will definitely deplete their resources and force them to play/behave differently than the whole "Buff and Swing," which, by the way, isn't much fun after a while either. But a Construct would probably be the most fitting way to shut them down, and would make for a great boss fight for them.
Also, take note that last part was directed at OP's complaints, not your addressing of said complaints. Besides; Quantity is nothing. Quality is everything. In some scenarios, it does take the quantity to make the quality, but if a single person can do the work of 10 men, then they are obviously superior than said 10 men, and are obviously as equal an acceptable solution as 10 men.
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Ok, I'll agree that quality helps, but the idea is that you don't need to be better than the PCs, you only need the BBEGs to be decent and have action economy. Look again at my suggestions, cleave doesn't work very well because you can't cleave a smite into someone else. I also said you shouldn't have them bunched up to counter AoE spells. Have some even lower level mooks to be cannon fodder. Again, this all goes to making it both fun for the PCs, and challenging without turning it into the Cleric and Paladin hour for the other players. I'm perfectly fine with the paladin getting to cleave through 2-4 mooks on his turn. he's now wasted one whole turn on 2-4 level 4 guys. Meanwhile the level 12 BBEG is hitting him with a lightning bolt, or summoning a devil next to him, or whatever. This is both fun (I've yet to have a player complain about being able to cleave through 3-4 grunts during a big fight), and it leaves plenty for other players to do. Rather than have 3-4 guys out there who are designed to stop the Cleric/Paladin cold, put out 8 or 9 guys who can't shut them down cold, but who can make their lives interesting, which gives everyone else something to do.
Yes, you're right. The PC's also need to have fun, and facing creatures that can counter a major part of class features can make it both interesting and fun for the players. Sure, Paladin won't have Smite Evil, but he's still a walking powerhouse with Buffs and Spells he can cast on others to make them more effective against Mr. Iron Golem. The Cleric can do the same, if not even attempt to strike at Mr. Iron Golem for some damage here or there, if Mr. Iron Golem isn't already pinning Bad Boy Cleric to the ground.
A Fat Dragon with Spell Resistance (that can summon minions) is going to put a dent in their attempts to damage the guy with their spells, and if the Fat Dragon has spells that can Dispel them, buff him (and his minions), and negate any sort of nasty SU or SP effects they plan to use; this would ultimately translate them to do the whole "Hack 'n Slash" playstyle, which can still be fun when you're dealing with the Fat Dragon and his shambling minions.
If the Party is walking down a hallway, they may very well lead to an unsuspecting trap that can severely debilitate them; while this may suck, they have resources to counter such things, so if they're not keen on their resources, throwing a couple traps at them will keep them on their toes and make them have to watch how they spend their resources.
Facing targets with other special (or homebrew) properties can help combat this as well, because even if the Ghost if some evil guy, he's still ethereal and the Paladin's damage is going to be half effective (and only hit half the time) due to the Ghost being ethereal. Unless they have a Ghost Touch effect, in which they should be properly prepared for it.
These are all viable options that can help with making the game more entertaining for both you and the PC's (as well as more difficult for them). Pick them out, mix and match them, and it would make for quite an interesting encounter for you.
Hittem in the skill points have skill based encounters where they must prevent something or get to somewhere ect.
Multi stage encounters can also soften the short term buff gods fairly well.
One problem I've had with buffing PCs is that the game uses "time" as the main limitation of powerful buffs, but the GM is entirely responsible for tracking the passage of time, especially outside of combats. This makes it socially awkward to cut off their buffs, which often forces me to be more lenient than I would ordinarily.
So generally, your solution is to get really good at policing durations. Don't be chintzy and attack them just as their buffs run down (unless it is a planned ambush, then do) but just be sure to make them feel the fight length once in a while.
In order to do that, I find it really helps to have an agreed upon method of abstract duration tracking to translate game-world time into table time. Not only does it make tracking all the buffs easier, it makes their durations more reliable for both the GM and the Players.
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As a GM if the 15th level Cleric in the group is enegaged in melee and not casting spells I'd consider that a win really.
It is always a challenge to understand how buffs impact character "power". It takes time to cast and ahs a duration. Balance encounters that require certain buffs to defeat is often a quick path to a TPK.
If a cleric is willing to spend 3 rounds buffing to become an effective melee person then more power to them I say. At least it's not a fighter with a bow.
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I ran a game with a cleric like this in it. Even used an option from the old inner sea world guide (3.5) to have full BAB. It wasn't a problem. It took him 2-3 rounds to buff to ridiculous (even with quicken spell), during which the rest of the party had to hold off the enemies. Then he strolls in and ends the fight in turn 4-6. That's about how long I expect the fight to take anyway, so I really didn't care that he did massive damage in 2 rounds instead of reasonable damage in 4.
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Another thing is that once they are finished buffing, just leave. Almost every fiend has greater teleport at will. Dragons have flight, and every BBEG should have an escape plan. Run away, and attack again after the buffs have expired.
Another way to balance against buffing PC's is to have enemy NPC's buff too. Disposable items are very handy to put a kink in the plans of the players. Potions of true strike and tanglefoot bags help to give the mooks some effectiveness.
Also, try to eliminate the 15 minute adventure day. Sure, there will be large single encounters some days or maybe just a handful. Though when the party decides to raid the liches crypt, they should have to conserve their resources instead of going full nova on the first encounter. If the group decides to take a rest period (especially inside the dungeon) then have inhabitants reinforce the area, or have them build traps to ambush the party.
I have a few other suggestions for you as well. First off I'll start by saying what you are facing is IMO normal, Pathfinder allows for almost every class to do huge amounts of damage around levels 15+. I think that is one of the core reasons PFS play ends there.
As the DM you aren't restricted by anything. You don't HAVE to use the Bestiary for everything. If your campaign involves a lot of humanoids then start making more of them Neutral. When you think about it most soldiers and political leaders aren't Evil, they are in it for themselves but so are their rivals in other countries. Truly evil characters should be a bit more rare I think.
Also, don't be afraid to get creative with special abilities, you aren't limited to those in the book. The big bad evil lich might have some other crazy powers the PCs never dream of. Our last campaign ran to Epic levels (around 28 or so) and the damage output there was insane, it was co-DMed by myself and a friend, here are some encounters we faced.
- Monsters that instantly teleport when hit, that means you never get more than one attack per round on them.
- Monsters that are completely intangible until they strike, which means the only way to hit them is to hold a standard action to strike them as they fly in to attack, again only one attack on them per round.
- Golems and Elementals with good resistances, as noted above.
- Anti-magic and debuffs as noted above.
- Enemies with good ranged attack and high movement, let them move 60 in a single move and have a ranged attack. Throw 15 of them out there and have them running away from the PCs peppering them. They will get cut down, but slowly.
- Throw in some things that do big damage back. A one or two shot fight. If the PC moves up next to something in round 1, the monster gets a full attack and hits on a 4+ d20 roll and does 75% of the PC's hit points....I bet that PC steps back next round or at least doesn't want to step up next to the other 5 of these things standing there.
- Give the monsters more hit point. I threw a Greater Devil at my PCs back when they were around level 18 or so....I took one of the Devils right out of the Bestiary as is, but bumped his hit points to 5,000.
- Give other interesting creative abilities, we faced elementals that were healed by physical damage, only certain elements hurt them.
- we faced other elementals that when you hit them you gained a "charge", as soon as you tell a PC, you feel strange energy wash over you, for this fight start tracking charges...You have 1. They get nervous fast...when they had X number of charges things would start to happen. They would explode taking arcane damage, causing damage to those around them expending all their charges. But....that blast damage that hit the other PCs would give them another charge....that fight was ugly....explosions sometimes caused chain reactions, that forced the party to stay away from each other.
- Throw out other defenses like high DR, high AC. If an enemy fighter has a strange ability, he has some class or feat the players never heard of and don't have access to because he was trained by some sword master initiate and that is the only way to learn it.
In the end, the point of all this...get creative and remember that you control all the numbers in the game. Challenge your PCs and you will all have fun (be warned after having their way for so long they may cry foul when some of this starts to happen). Also, if you want more example....I have plenty more.
-AK
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Another thing is that once they are finished buffing, just leave. Almost every fiend has greater teleport at will. Dragons have flight, and every BBEG should have an escape plan. Run away, and attack again after the buffs have expired.
This. Right here. Bone Devils, Erenyes, and anything with Greater Teleport will work. Make them blow spells and buffs and then leave. I have to do this with my party sometimes. Its called "burning resources". Make them use things so that later maybe they have to cast only 2 of those 3 spells or even 1 because they fear they will be stuck without any if they blow them too early. The key is to make them have a sense of urgency like "OMG it will explode if we don't hurry" or "they have this captive they may kill if we take too long"...then they will be less likely to stay around and rest 4 times before completing a dungeon.
Random encounters to disrupt rest can help too.
The key to challenging a party capable of dishing out high amounts of damage is to not engage a party like that. If they are buffing up like that then use battle field control to redirect tough opponents and target the weaker ones. Focus on de-fuffs that target a range of save. A cleric might save well against Wil but how are they against reflex? Also the bad guys can buff too and go head to head but the bad guys have the advantage, they are waiting for the party to arrive to their ambush.
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Can't believe I only now thought of this. The enemy caster sees all of this buffing happening, and simply casts a greater dispel magic when the cleric goes to engage. Doesn't disrupt the fight with battlefied altering spells, and the cleric gets to keep a few buffs (probably). He's likely still useful in melee, just not the unstoppable train he was before.