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Alright, I know this is objective, but hopefully we can come to a general agreement. My group generally doesn't use 3rd party stuff, as while some of it is good, a lot of it is not balanced. I have heard a lot of good things about Super Genius Games, and looked into some of their stuff, which seems cool. Are there any opinions out there of which third party publisher produces the best, most balanced and high quality stuff? If you had to pick a third party publisher to make legal in your games, who would it be?
We use a lot of stuff from 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming, Rite Publishing, Dreamscarred Press, Radiance House and Headless Hydra Games.
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Alluria's Cerulean Seas has some of the best art, writing, and mechanical design I've ever seen in 3rd party material. Dreamscarred's Psionics books are pretty solid, although I think they have a tendency to overlook some of the grotesquely broken combos you can get when you multi-class their material with core material splat books. Or maybe that's just too much to expect someone to account for.
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Dreamscarred's Psionics books are pretty solid, although I think they have a tendency to overlook some of the grotesquely broken combos you can get when you multi-class their material with core material splat books. Or maybe that's just too much to expect someone to account for.
Feel free to let me know of any such combinations you find. We try to find as many as possible, but with just me and Andreas making up Dreamscarred Press, we get a large amount of our mechanical feedback from our open playtesting volunteers. We're more than happy to issue errata if something was missed.
As for the topic at hand, I've personally bought and would recommend products from (in no particular order):
Frog God Games
Super Genius Games
Purple Duck Games
LPJ Design
Rite Publishing
Alluria Publishing
Jon Brazer Enterprises
I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, and there are others I've heard good things about but haven't personally bought from (TPK Games, Fire Mountain Games, for example.)
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Dreamscarred's Psionics books are pretty solid, although I think they have a tendency to overlook some of the grotesquely broken combos you can get when you multi-class their material with core material splat books. Or maybe that's just too much to expect someone to account for.Feel free to let me know of any such combinations you find. We try to find as many as possible, but with just me and Andreas making up Dreamscarred Press, we get a large amount of our mechanical feedback from our open playtesting volunteers. We're more than happy to issue errata if something was missed.
As for the topic at hand, I've personally bought and would recommend products from (in no particular order):
Frog God Games
Super Genius Games
Purple Duck Games
LPJ Design
Rite Publishing
Alluria Publishing
Jon Brazer EnterprisesI'm sure there are others I'm forgetting, and there are others I've heard good things about but haven't personally bought from (TPK Games, Fire Mountain Games, for example.)
Thanks for that JS! I know just recently there were some issues with the multi-classing capabilities of the Aegis that we bumped into, I'll double check that and let you know. Kudos on not adding your own company to the list of great 3pp you'd recommend, but you do deserve to be on the list with the best of them!
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It certainly IS subjective, but I think you will find companies such as Open Design/Kobold Quarterly/Kobold Press, Super Genius Games, Frog God Games and Raging Swan Press consistently put out material every bit as good and as balanced as Paizo's material.
I would have NO problem letting such material in any game I played in or GMed (more to the point, we routinely DO allow material from the above companies in our games)
dotting. :)
as good and as balanced as Paizo's material.
Not that this is saying much. :P
If you're interested in checking out 3rd party stuff without committing any cash to something you may hate, check out the stuff available on D20PFSRD. A lot of the 3rd party stuff is available there, since it's all published under the OGL.
Obviously, if you like it, buy it, but money's tight for a lot of us right now. I don't think anyone is going to begrudge you wanting to make sure you'll get your moneys worth. Heck, half of the guys at my table have Dreamscarred Press' psionics book because we were able to check the rule out ahead of time online, decided it would work well for us revisiting one of our old 3.5 campaigns, and picked up the book in anticipation of that.
The guys over at the incredibly-popular Know Direction podcast gave us (Abandoned Arts) a great review as of late.
We've also had nothing but positive feedback (so far) from our giveaway thread.
As for the "established" guys, most of the 3pp producers on Jeremy Smith's list do offer free products with which you can sample the quality and production value of their items. (Check out Raging Swan's free version of the Shadowed Keep on the Borderlands module.)
Daron Woodson
Abandoned Arts
First Caedwyr, thanks for the mention!
Second if you'd like to judge whether Fire Mountain Games is worthy of your interest you can download a free 32-page preview of "Way of the Wicked", Pathfinder's only evil adventure path here.
You can also read reviews of our first book the ENnie nominated "Knot of Thorns" here.
And if you'd like to learn more about our upcoming adventure path Throne of Night (build an empire in the depths of the earth as either dwarves or drow) you can either read this thread or sign up for our facebook page.
Thanks for your consideration.
Gary McBride
Fire Mountain Games
I would suggest the yearly list of The best 3PP products by Endzeigiest and Dark mistress
Pathways #1 2010 list
Pathways #12 2011 list
I also recommend the ENnie nominated products.
The Player's Guide to the Great City from 0one games (Gold winner),
Alluria's Cerulean Seas,
The Way of the Wicked by Fire Mountain Games,
Mythic Menagerie by Super Genius Games,
Streets of Zobeck by Open Design (Gold winner).
I would also point out that from Sea to Shore (an official product) was create by a 3pp (open design)
Then there are the 3PP books paizo uses the crap out of Tome of Horrors Complete and the 3.5 advanced bestiary.
I would also like to thank everyone who mentioned our products.
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My list of 3rd Party Publishers that see use in my games.
-Adamant Entertainment
-Alluria Publishing
-John Brazier Enterprises
-Super Genius Games
-Dream Scarred Press
-Radiant House
-TPK Games
-Rite Publishing
-LPJ Design
-Fire Mountain Games
-Raging Swan Press
This is not to say I use everything from these publishers, but they are consistent enough that I don't worry about them too much.
Edit:Also, frog god games and Amora Games
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My favorite's gotta be Dreamscarred Press. They have created a true love of psionics in me. They'e so well balanced, and their new classes (not the updated XPH ones) are extremely creative, particularly Aegis, Tactician, and Cryptic.
I've become a fan of Abandoned Arts and their class act series. Creative, short books worth giving a look. They just need to expand to more classes. Right now, I think they've just got stuff for Fighters, Wizards, Clerics, Rangers, Druids, Witches, and Barbarians. I think.
Super Genius Games also has their excellent bullet points series. I don't have anything else of theirs, but bullet points are great, and there's a million of them.
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OP: Apart from my Top-10-lists, I'd add the following:
It depends what you're looking for.
My experience is the following:
Top-tier companies:
Rite Publishing and Super Genius Games are my go-to-guys regarding crunch: I (almost) universally allow their stuff. Also: Rite has some of the best premium adventure products for any d20-iteration with e.g. Coliseum Morpheuon etc..
Raging Swan is a godsend for beleaguered DMs with their list-products, dungeon dressings, TRIBES etc.
Open Design is a slightly two-edged sword: On the one hand, OD has some of the very best books I've ever read. On the downside, their crunch is often closed content, meaning there won't be much additional support. The smaller pdfs are a tad bit more hit-and-miss. But: adventures/bigger books: Get them!
Frog God Games: No way around them for old-school adventures - deadly, cool, iconic.
Dreamscarred Press: Their psionics ROCK. I've been playing with them forever. The myth of overpowered psionics? Bogus, imho. DSP's psionics is better balanced than WotC's.
Also very good, but with less available files:
Fire Mountain Games: From out of nowhere they came, went and won - their Way of the Wicked is awesome and set the bar higher. If they can get rid of the few editing mistakes and keep the quality that high and producing, they'll go on my top-list.
Radiance House: I'm a huge sucker for Pact Magic - so no way around these guys either - loved them since their 3.5 books, love them still.
TPK Games: Massively improved company, has started ok and quickly improved to providing awesome files - especially if you're looking for dark and creepy.
Adventureaweek.com: Another candidate that has steadily and quickly improved to deliver a lot of interesting modules with an own, distinct style.
Zombie Sky Press: Another candidate that has yet failed to disappoint me; Plus: Their incantation-books should be considered canon.
Run Amok Games: Great adventures for a low price.
Clockwork Gnome Publishing: Glorious ideas in Morithal and the Cloven Hoof Syndicate.
Worth checking out as well:
0onegames: The Road to Revolution is a stellar urban AP - perhaps the best one available so far. Their maps are also neat. They also have a series of nice, short modules on an urban disaster that sometimes are downright genius - but not always.
4 Winds Fantasy Gaming: Some awesome books, but not much happening lately. Their equipment book is another must-buy.
Alluria Publishing: Cerulean Seas is awesome and THE resource for underwater adventuring, Remarkable Races ok.
Jon Brazer Enterprises: The two big Books of Beasts are STELLAR, Kingmaker-groups need their compiled reference guide and the upcoming plane of shadows stuff looks sweet as well.
LPJr Design: Their NeoExodus-stuff is great to check out something that is different from standard fantasy fare. Not a fan of most of their older setting-neutral stuff, though.
Purple Duck Games - Their legendary-series is a staple in my games - I almost never use any regular items any more, designing along the samples provided.
Legendary Games: Premium production values, great AP-tie-ins, but pricey.
Also worth a look:
Dias Ex Machina - if you're interested in the setting.
Headless Hydra Games: From rather bad beginning, they improved massively. Their city-setting is definitely worth the asking price.
Tricky Owlbear Publishing - Get the (potentially) combat-less adventure "The 11th Hour" -it's 3.5, but you don't need the stats! It's brilliant!
Misfit Studios - Superior Fantasy Synergy ROCKS hard.
Dreadfox Games - Pricey, but interesting crunch-books.
Gaming Paper - "Citadel of Pain" is awesome, but not all of their offerings are that good.
Abandoned Arts - A newcomer in the area of crunch, AA has continuously improved and shows some rather interesting promise with their extremely affordable pdfs.
Butterfrog Studios - Hugo Solis' studio kicked off with an awesome free teaser-file.
Sneak Attack press - Has a nice horror-module and the extremely useful Terrain Toolbox.
Spes Magna Games - Some cool, very cheap files to be found there.
This list is not complete and I apologize for omitting any of you fine folk - it's late and I'm tired.
Whatever you do, stay away from
AGES Gaming and Alvena Publishing - nothing to salvage to be found there.
I Thank You for the comment Endz! Much obliged.
As far as 3PP at my table, I have long been a fan and supporter of the concept of 3PP material.
Amongst those companies I recommend without a second thought:
Super Genius Games - Time and time again the design work coming out of the SGG camp impresses me.
Rite Publishing - I do believe I can count on one hand how many releases from Rite I wasn't a fan of...and I can do it with less than half of the fingers on that hand.
Frog God Games - OK, granted, they don't tend to release a massive amount of material, and they are more focused on adventures as opposed to crunch books...but when it comes to needing an adventure that will have you talking for years to come, these are the guys you want to do business with. But, speaking of crunch...these guys did bring us the updated Tome of Horrors...nuff' said.
Open Design - Kobold Quarterly, Midgard, Wolfgang Bauer...need I say more? Yes, there have been a few middle of the road moments, but they are far outweighed by the bullseye material from this powerhouse.
Raging Swan - If you're a GM and you don't know about the swan, it's time to educate yourself. On top of excellent crunch material and settings, they publish one of the most useful GM tools out there, filling your arsenal with massive amounts of lists to handle anything and everything, all presented in a clear format.
Jon Brazer Enterprises - Shown some serious growth and improvement, and has certainly captured some attention with their upcoming setting.
TPK Games - Exquisitely Dark is the best way I can think of to describe practically everything these guys touch. If you are looking to inject a healthy dose of creepy into your gaming table, TPK is exactly what you looking for.
Alluria Publishing - Long considered to have published the final word when it comes to the sourcebook for underwater adventuring for a very good reason. Cerulean Seas is a must own for any GM out there, pure and simple. Their Bestiary of the Bizarre: Creepy Creatures is on my short list for best critter books.
Several other companies belong on this list, but I could sit here all night going through them...and I just don't have that type of time right now...so a truncated list
Headless Hydra, Purple Duck, Abandoned Arts, Tricky Owlbear Publishing
Now, I have never had the chance to crack open a book from Dreamscarred press...so I am loathe to give an opinion either way...I can state that they are well known as the final word in regards to Psionics in Pathfinder, and that speaks for itself I do believe.
The same ends up being the reality for Fire Mountain Games. As much as Gary and crew came out of nowhere and exploded on the scene, I have seen no more than the original preview, and therefore can give no opinion.
I mention both Fire Mountain Games and Dreamscarred press specifically because I believe from the sheer amount of popularity they deserve to be on any list of 3PP's worth noticing, for one does not garner that much attention by not being good at what you are doing.
Going to end this with a simple, if you didn't see your company, there could be many reasons why. I probably have never read/reviewed your material. I might have simply forgotten a few names (nothing personal). I might actually not like your stuff, and am too nice to say so publicly. Or I might just be really really tired, lol.
In the end, most of these companies have some form of free material so that you can see what they are all about. I recommend to anyone who is pondering third party material to grab a handful of stuff, and decide for themselves who works within the dynamics of their playgroup, and who doesn't?
Just a quick "Thanks!" for those mentioning Tricky Owlbear. We've been pretty quiet lately but are pleased that hasn't made us forgotten. And to this...
Tricky Owlbear Publishing - Get the (potentially) combat-less adventure "The 11th Hour" -it's 3.5, but you don't need the stats! It's brilliant!
...I say, "Thanks much for the kind words, End!"
I know it's already been said by my go-to's are Frog God Games, Open Design, and Raging Swan Press.
Just want to pipe up and say thanks to everybody who's given their recommendations so far. I'm always on the lookout for new campaign material and you've given me plenty of stuff to add to my must-buy list, lots of which that I doubt I would have discovered otherwise.
For those of you just learning about the most recommended 3pp companies for Pathfinder, and seeing Rite Publishing highly rated by many of the posters in this thread, one of those Rite Publishing assets is the Kaidan Japanese horror setting (think Oriental Adventures meets Ravenloft, sort of) - we have only 5 days left in our Kaidan Campaign Setting Kickstarter to create printed guide books. Please check it out and join in pledge, or spread the word. We have only $670 to reach our next tier goal.
For adventures, Frog God Games.
Especially Slumbering Tsar and Rappan Athuk.
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Thanks to all of you who have mentioned our works. TPK has been expanding our works to branch out from our standard fare this year. Our products are all dark fantasy, with some bordering on true horror.
I know several of you mentioned buying 3PP products based on reviews. If you are new to TPK's work, check out the Malefactor base class, it won't disappoint.
As a consumer, my hat goes off to Super Genius Games, Dreamscarred Press, Rite Publishing and many more. There's a lot of third party material that is very well written and creative, but goes unnoticed by mainstream consumers. Threads like these are good for everyone!
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As long as everyone is jumping in, I'm pretty proud of The Very Last Book About Mounted Combat and I'd encourage people to check out the reviews.
If you are new to TPK's work, check out the Malefactor base class, it won't disappoint.
I'd have to recommend the Malefactor. I liked the class enough to include support for it in Shadowsfall. Same holds true for all the classes in Dreamscarred Press' Psionics Unleashed and Super Genius Game's Time Thief and Time Warden classes. I liked them alot and they will receive support in JBE's Shadowsfall books.
Super Genius games generally has an open invitation at my table. I think i have made precisely 3 changes to their material for use at my table.
Rite publishing, dreamscarred press, and frog god games all see regular use at my table. I have also used material from 4 winds fantasy, kobold quarterly, and open design and I dont regret using any of it. The quality of 3rd party material for pfrpg is very very high in many cases.
Part of that is Paizo uses many 3rd party publishers as free lancers for paizo products. So they have insight into the design process and the intentions of the game designers. That makes it far more likely that people will release consistent and balanced material for pathfinder.
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Comparisons-wise, I allow more Super Genius Games material than Paizo material, and I allow about the same amount of Rite material as I do Paizo material.
The rest are around there, although there are a few companies I do not allow for various reasons.
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Comparisons-wise, I allow more Super Genius Games material than Paizo material, and I allow about the same amount of Rite material as I do Paizo material.
Me too! I actually think SGG's material is better-thought out and better-balanced than Paizo's on average. I mean, can you imaging the howls if a 3pp had released the magus?
I allow all Super Genius, nad have never regreted it. I also like the overall quality of Dreamscarred Press (if you are interested in psionics) Rite Publishing, Open Design , and Jon Brazer Enterprises (especially the Kingmaker stuff)
Perhaps more often than I should've thought of that! SGG even released a class that gets something like the magus' spellcombat. At level 20, with only a single attack. Fascinating to see the different perspectives of the power level of things, isn't it?
Open Design (or Kobold Press as they have been renamed in my downloads) and Super Genius Games are the dominant 3PPs in my downloads. I have a number of other individual items from 3PP, some great, some not, but those two consistently come out with items I want / use and maintain a high level of quality while they're at it. I like Spes Magna as well, but I only have three from them. The ones I have,I like.