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Stupid question: did you put together a stat block for the templated Star Spawn? Or just the templates?
I feel like the final boss should be more than a creature out of the bestiary plus some templates, but that's just me.
Regardless, the work you've done is deeply inspiring to me as designer. I love seeing high level stat blocks.
Templated Star Spawn? No, the star spawn I went with was the mythic version with a few suggestive changes (ie. increase HD to 26, stat boosting items and spell swaps). The second option I gave was if that was too overwhelming for the party, then instead use the original star spawn, add two levels of fighter and the Simple cleric template for the same CR 25.
EDIT: I don't know what's up with this forum any more. It loves crashing and not working when it should. Anyway, if what you're actually asking is if I played around with my own ideas and actually put it together, yes, I did and it's daunting to say the least. I can see people pretty much ignoring the suggestion, or jumping all over it and throwing it at the party without hesitation. There's not really an in-between here.
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I had said before that I'd probably do it, and here is the first entry of the next mini-series of posts.
Throne of Night, The Other Book 3 Encounters
This is just more of Michael's art as well as links to the bestiary stat blocks for each one, based on the information and hints alluded to, given in the synopsis write-ups that were dropped on the Kickstarter.
Any other encounters that don't have art, I've already brought up in other entries (ie. half-dragon dwarven children), or I brought up in today's (a group of drow laying in wait for the golem puzzle to be solved). If there's anything beyond that and the stat blocks I wrote, I am unfortunately unaware of them, and apologize that my investigation, while thorough, was lacking in that context.
I'll probably do a few more. Not sure how many will get bundled together though. Book 4 will likely be it's own. Encounters and art that have no specific book that they were dictated to be in, I might do as their own separate miscellaneous entry. I can already think of a couple that fit that criteria.
Stupid question: did you put together a stat block for the templated Star Spawn? Or just the templates?
I feel like the final boss should be more than a creature out of the bestiary plus some templates, but that's just me.
Regardless, the work you've done is deeply inspiring to me as designer. I love seeing high level stat blocks.
Templated Star Spawn? No, the star spawn I went with was the mythic version with a few suggestive changes (ie. increase HD to 26, stat boosting items and spell swaps). The second option I gave was if that was too overwhelming for the party, then instead use the original star spawn, add two levels of fighter and the Simple cleric template for the same CR 25.
EDIT: I don't know what's up with this forum any more. It loves crashing and not working when it should. Anyway, if what you're actually asking is if I played around with my own ideas and actually put it together, yes, I did and it's daunting to say the least. I can see people pretty much ignoring the suggestion, or jumping all over it and throwing it at the party without hesitation. There's not really an in-between here.
For the record, I love it!
Any idea if how it fits into the plot? It's exceedingly Lovecraftian for a campaign that doesn't feel very Lovecraftian overall? Especially for the final boss.
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Stupid question: did you put together a stat block for the templated Star Spawn? Or just the templates?
I feel like the final boss should be more than a creature out of the bestiary plus some templates, but that's just me.
Regardless, the work you've done is deeply inspiring to me as designer. I love seeing high level stat blocks.
Templated Star Spawn? No, the star spawn I went with was the mythic version with a few suggestive changes (ie. increase HD to 26, stat boosting items and spell swaps). The second option I gave was if that was too overwhelming for the party, then instead use the original star spawn, add two levels of fighter and the Simple cleric template for the same CR 25.
EDIT: I don't know what's up with this forum any more. It loves crashing and not working when it should. Anyway, if what you're actually asking is if I played around with my own ideas and actually put it together, yes, I did and it's daunting to say the least. I can see people pretty much ignoring the suggestion, or jumping all over it and throwing it at the party without hesitation. There's not really an in-between here.
For the record, I love it!
Any idea if how it fits into the plot? It's exceedingly Lovecraftian for a campaign that doesn't feel very Lovecraftian overall? Especially for the final boss.
I thought up a third option instead or the "the GM will choose either option 1 or 2", and that's the idea of just using the monster as the CR 25 that it's written right now and not make any changes whatsoever, and that's also a perfectly fair choice to take.
Glad you liked my revised changes to the build.
So the official??? (let's go with that because I can't think of a better term) is that in Book 5, after the PCs learn of all the recent kidnappings/disappearances, they come across a strange device that turns out to be something akin to a submarine. My theory is that, much like the DeLorean in first "Back to the Future" movie, the last person who used it kept the last coordinates programmed into the sub, and that's what takes our group to the city of the aboleth. By the time you're done with all of that, we come to Book 6, and the PCs find yet another Underdark of sorts that is filled with Lovecraftian aspects and creatures. At the very least, the PCs will come to learn that the aboleths are actually pawns to what is below their city.
It's also here that the PCs meet up with a pleroma aeon and a collar controlled purple worm. As to what role the pleroma has, I'm not entirely sure, unless it believes the star spawn is its foretold master (Monad, the sentience of the universe). There's a bunch of other terrible creatures to content with, including a neh-thalggu and sea creature/aboleth carcass comprised charnel colossus.
When the star spawn is introduced in the synopsis, it's straight up called "a horror from another world" intent on world domination with the "Sunkiller", a device created to cast the world in unending darkness.
Unfortunately, that's the extent of the information I've been able to piece together from the Kickstarter updates.
As for how it fits, it might actually be a being from the stars or another world looking to conquer and rule this one. That honestly seems rather anticlimactic that the final boss might be one-dimensional and cartoonish. What, he suddenly wake up one day and go, "You know, Brain of 'Pinky and the Brain' makes a valid point and today I should try and take over the world."? Or maybe the star spawn was trapped for 10,000 years and now its finally free, so it's time to conquer Earth? I don't know that dwarves count as a group of teenagers with attitude, but drow might.
To be perfectly honest, given the crazy high CR of a lot of the monsters the PCs must face in the final book, I think it's more a grind than "Way of the Wicked", and possibly, instead of ending the adventure at level 20 once you've beaten the final encounter, you're meant to be level 20 for the final encounter.
That's my take anyhow.
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It's also here that the PCs meet up with a pleroma aeon and a collar controlled purple worm. As to what role the pleroma has, I'm not entirely sure, unless it believes the star spawn is its foretold master (Monad, the sentience of the universe).
When the star spawn is introduced in the synopsis, it's straight up called "a horror from another world" intent on world domination with the "Sunkiller", a device created to cast the world in unending darkness.
As for how it fits, it might actually be a being from the stars or another world looking to conquer and rule this one. That honestly seems rather anticlimactic that the final boss might be one-dimensional and cartoonish. What, he suddenly wake up one day and go, "You know, Brain of 'Pinky and the Brain' makes a valid point and today I should try and take over the world."? Or maybe the star spawn was trapped for 10,000 years and now its finally free, so it's time to conquer Earth? I don't know that dwarves count as a group of teenagers with attitude, but drow might.
I just had the absolute worst idea while making lunch, and had to share it. As bad of a joke as I made making the star spawn seem like Rita Repulsa, what if I wasn't all that far off base? What if the pleroma doesn't believe the star spawn to be Monad, but realizes that the star spawn will disrupt all of the balance it's meant to protect?
From the pictures Michael Clarke released, it appears Book 6 will introduce two locations: the Tower of Aeons and the Isle of Jaan-Jatha.
What if the pleroma learns about the PCs, and sends telepathic waves to have them come visit him, or just straight up plucks them out of existence and brings them to his tower? He could be the one who informs the PCs on what's really going on, and give them the entire exposition on the star spawn and the motives behind the small army of Lovecraftian creatures. Have him turn into the Zordan of the story, and maybe even give them some kind of upgrade. No Zords of course, but maybe the first level of the mythic tier, or upgrade their weapons or armor with a mythic attribute so they don't just straight up get murdered. As anyone can attest, non-mythic PCs vs. mythic monsters can be pretty dark hard to deal with, especially if the creature has a "if the creature you attack isn't mythic, you win" ability.
Just thinking out loud, but it was too interesting to not write down.
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Here is the second entry of the next mini-series of posts.
Throne of Night, The Other Book 4 Encounters
I say "encounters", but I feel that's a really loose term with this one. Lots of what is presented comes off as this book mostly being an extended diplomacy mission, and failure could mean the final encounter is much more difficult to the point of it being ludicrous.
There's not much in the way of new art in this post, but like the previous one, is has more of Michael's art and links to the bestiary stat blocks for each. There wasn't really much in the way for hints that told you exactly how each one was meant to go down, so I guessed on a couple, or elaborated on what little we were given.
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Today, I did something completely different. It's a theory build, except also not. Unlike the builds I'd done before where I had art of a monster, and fully stated it out if I were to run that encounter, I took a map that hadn't seen use and the art of the PCs heading towards said map location, and theory crafted how the interior might be laid out for encounters. Didn't do full builds, but I did link monsters and what class levels they might have.
I fully expect to be 100% wrong in this, and that everything I came up with is so far off course it's laughable. Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of overthinking things, and it kept me up until I wrote down the basics on my phone. Now, I have finally elaborated on the threads I spun a mere 8-9 hours ago.
Again, I fleshed out how things might go, how encounters might go down, where enemies might be located, etc, but I didn't actually build each encounter with the full monster stat block that I usually do. I just gave the basics that a GM who liked the idea could take and run with.
Speculated Encounter Design for the Capture Ship of Book 5
I will say that this entry has new art, so at the very least that's something to look at and enjoy.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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Can't say I expected to do another theory build. Glad I said that I didn't have any more planned, and not that I was done. I would have looked like quite the fool. *sigh*
Unknown Encounter 17 - The Brain Collector
More New Art, again. Yippee!
With this done, now maybe I'm done with the theory builds. *knocks on wood* If not, so be it. However, it does mean that until then, I'll be doing the Book 5 and 6 art releases mixed with linked stats. From what I can see, Book 5 doesn't have a whole lot released in the form of monsters. It was more exploration, hazards, and obstacles. And that's perfectly fine considering it's hundreds upon hundreds of feet of open water, currents, and rushing rapids. Even the synopsis is incredibly short for Book 5. Definitely a true sandbox, that one.
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Stay healthy and safe.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Today, I did something completely different. It's a theory build, except also not. Unlike the builds I'd done before where I had art of a monster, and fully stated it out if I were to run that encounter, I took a map that hadn't seen use and the art of the PCs heading towards said map location, and theory crafted how the interior might be laid out for encounters. Didn't do full builds, but I did link monsters and what class levels they might have.
I fully expect to be 100% wrong in this, and that everything I came up with is so far off course it's laughable. Unfortunately, I have a bad habit of overthinking things, and it kept me up until I wrote down the basics on my phone. Now, I have finally elaborated on the threads I spun a mere 8-9 hours ago.
Again, I fleshed out how things might go, how encounters might go down, where enemies might be located, etc, but I didn't actually build each encounter with the full monster stat block that I usually do. I just gave the basics that a GM who liked the idea could take and run with.
Speculated Encounter Design for the Capture Ship of Book 5
I will say that this entry has new art, so at the very least that's something to look at and enjoy.
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Stay healthy and safe.
I am in love with this encounter. I could run it as a one-shot. I mean, I'm a sucker for all the creatures presented as well as Lovecraftian/Dark Tapestry/ Dominion of the Black themes. But this is just masterful.
*Tips hat*
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Good Morning Sir Video,
I was curious as to how the remainder of your story arc progressed after Book 2? I saw the Lost Mine materials that you provided to wrap up the story line, but I was curious as to what you may have done to flesh it out more along the lines of how it should have gone?
I'm thinking that I'll shoehorn this into the Golarion setting. As I won't claim to be the most creative of GM's, so when I eventually get around to running this AP, my plan was to run the 1st 2 books, then "Book 3" would be the discovery and reclamation of Dammerhall. "Book 4, Pt. 1" would involve seizing an old dwarven (now drow occupied) seaport and with a captured drow war galley, they would begin raiding drow shipping, attacking outposts and gathering allies from amongst the other underdark races to form and army to fight the drow. "Pt. 2" would possibly involve infiltrating the drow city (maybe stealing some inspiration from the PF Second Darkness AP) before launching their attack. Up to this point the PC's should (hopefully) be realizing that there are hidden powers at work behind most of their obstacles. "Book 5" will involve the PC's actively taking the fight to the aboleth puppet masters by staging assaults against their primary servitors; the kuo-toan's and serpentfolk. For this I was thinking to use some content from the 2nd ed. Night Below campaign, along with PF's Serpent Skull #5. "Book 6" would then be the final infiltration and attack on the aboleth city.
That being said, I'd be interested in hearing how you (and others) planned to map out their story.Have a good day,
For the most part, I pretty much laid it all out in all of my entries on my blog.
One suggestion I had way, way back (mostly because the mine aspect is pretty high level and Book 2 has you stop at level 10) was to take the "Tombs of Golarion" book, and run the "Everforge" section. It has a great set up with duergar on spider mounts (mimicking the drow riders in Book 4), as well as the a leng spider and worm that walks boss encounter both set up a Lovecraftian element that's introduced in Book 6 (possibly Book 5, if you do up the submarine).
While I didn't actually stat them out, I did put down how to do the half-dragon dwarf offspring, and how one could stat out the luring submarine.
I've tried to compile everything I'd released here, but wow did I ever do a lot. Not to toot my own horn, but I want to say that 80% of the posts on this thread, are mine. It's kind of sad, actually. I put down monster encounters and alternate ways to beat the game, magic item references, and then (as of today) 27 theory builds plus all the extras.
It's hard to tell you to just go through all of the posts and pages, but as this post, there are 1460 posts and 30 pages. That'd be incredibly mean to have you do that, but honestly, it might be in your best interest. I honestly can't even remember everything I've posted or where exactly to point you (other than my blog), but doing so would allow you to pick and choose what you do and don't want.
I will say that I'm still planning on doing 2-3 more posts. After talking with some players and game developers, and getting their help, I've revised the gunzarak (true mithral) and will be posting more on that before the end of the month. I'm also going to be posting more on the encounters the party would deal with in books 5 and 6.
You'd think after all these years I'd be done posting information, but there just keeps on being more and more discovered, and worked on.
It sounds like you've got a fairly good plan of action for your players. All I can really add to that if have a look at AAW and their "Rise of the Drow" AP. If you've got kuo-toans, then you must be dong 5e. Thankfully the AP was recently converted to that during one of their last Kickstarters.
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I am in love with this encounter. I could run it as a one-shot. I mean, I'm a sucker for all the creatures presented as well as Lovecraftian/Dark Tapestry/ Dominion of the Black themes. But this is just masterful.
*Tips hat*
*Bows*
I'm glad you approve. As I said in the entry, I'm sure that I'm very, very likely barking up the wrong tree with what I came up with, especially after looking more closely at the art of the neh-thalggu and thanadaemons. Still, I think I like mine better. The encounters in Book 6 are just too much of a left-fiend-WTF whiplash without some kind of proper gateway encounter, and while, arguably, the neh-thalggu could itch such a scratch, I don't feel like it's enough.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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If you've got kuo-toans, then you must be doing 5e.Brain no work good today. Sorry, too many years of D&D. I meant skum, not kuo-toan. I'm planning on using PF 1st. ed.
My issue is that I don't want a campaign to just be a series of encounters that are strung together. The adventure begins as just another group of murdering hobos, wandering about in search of a lost dwarven city. They then begin securing their new dominion and in the process, discover that a city of aboleth, guided by some unspeakable, Lovecraftian horror from beyond, has been the driving force behind most of the bad things occurring in the region.
I'd like to build a story that leads the PC's down that path, rather than spoon feed it to them.
Stealing your quote, I won't claim to be the most creative of GM's. The AP was designed to be a sandbox. There’s an overarching story, but it’s not so linear that it explains itself.
Wish I had more than a bunch of spoons available though.
Good Morning Sir Video,
I was curious as to how the remainder of your story arc progressed after Book 2? I saw the Lost Mine materials that you provided to wrap up the story line, but I was curious as to what you may have done to flesh it out more along the lines of how it should have gone?
I'm thinking that I'll shoehorn this into the Golarion setting. As I won't claim to be the most creative of GM's, so when I eventually get around to running this AP, my plan was to run the 1st 2 books, then "Book 3" would be the discovery and reclamation of Dammerhall. "Book 4, Pt. 1" would involve seizing an old dwarven (now drow occupied) seaport and with a captured drow war galley, they would begin raiding drow shipping, attacking outposts and gathering allies from amongst the other underdark races to form and army to fight the drow. "Pt. 2" would possibly involve infiltrating the drow city (maybe stealing some inspiration from the PF Second Darkness AP) before launching their attack. Up to this point the PC's should (hopefully) be realizing that there are hidden powers at work behind most of their obstacles. "Book 5" will involve the PC's actively taking the fight to the aboleth puppet masters by staging assaults against their primary servitors; the kuo-toan's and serpentfolk. For this I was thinking to use some content from the 2nd ed. Night Below campaign, along with PF's Serpent Skull #5. "Book 6" would then be the final infiltration and attack on the aboleth city.
That being said, I'd be interested in hearing how you (and others) planned to map out their story.Have a good day,
For the most part, I pretty much laid it all out in all of my entries on my blog.
One suggestion I had way, way back (mostly because the mine aspect is pretty high level and Book 2 has you stop at level 10) was to take the "Tombs of Golarion" book, and run the "Everforge" section. It has a great set up with duergar on spider mounts (mimicking the drow riders in Book 4), as well as the a leng...
Stupid question, but what would it take to compile all the material that was released plus your work into a single document? I feel like that would be a tremendous undertaking, but the result could well be something closer to the actual AP that was promised.
I'm not volunteering anyone for a project I'd that magnitude, just thinking. Especially considering so many people were so severely let down.
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Stupid question, but what would it take to compile all the material that was released plus your work into a single document? I feel like that would be a tremendous undertaking, but the result could well be something closer to the actual AP that was promised.
I'm not volunteering anyone for a project I'd that magnitude, just thinking. Especially considering so many people were so severely let down
It’s not a stupid question, but it’s definitely a loaded one. Unfortunately, due to various legalities, I technically couldn’t compile this into a document. While it was never completed, the story and art are still owned by Gary and Michael, and would need to be signed off on. This is the main reason why I’m not doing this through Kickstarter or Patreon. If someone else were to do it, they could take my work, but wouldn’t be able to use the official art. They’d have to instead use stock art. Anyone who took on such a venture would definitely need to look into what necessary precautions they’d have to take to stay safe.
I’ve talked with various publishers and editors over the years, especially the ones I’ve worked closely with, regarding this AP, and it’d be a massive financial investment with almost no return, to get this AP completed today, and that’s assuming Gary still has all of his notes. If something like what happened during the last two books of “Way of the Wicked”, where his hard drive blew and he didn’t have a back up, that could be make things even worse.
So, again, not a stupid question. It’s just a lot to unpack and there’s some troublesome baggage to watch out for should someone decide to try their hand at it. Nothing might ever come of it, but it’s worth noting just in case.
Stupid question, but what would it take to compile all the material that was released plus your work into a single document? I feel like that would be a tremendous undertaking, but the result could well be something closer to the actual AP that was promised.
I'm not volunteering anyone for a project I'd that magnitude, just thinking. Especially considering so many people were so severely let down
It’s not a stupid question, but it’s definitely a loaded one. Unfortunately, due to various legalities, I technically couldn’t compile this into a document. While it was never completed, the story and art are still owned by Gary and Michael, and would need to be signed off on. This is the main reason why I’m not doing this through Kickstarter or Patreon. If someone else were to do it, they could take my work, but wouldn’t be able to use the official art. They’d have to instead use stock art. Anyone who took on such a venture would definitely need to look into what necessary precautions they’d have to take to stay safe.
I’ve talked with various publishers and editors over the years, especially the ones I’ve worked closely with, regarding this AP, and it’d be a massive financial investment with almost no return, to get this AP completed today, and that’s assuming Gary still has all of his notes. If something like what happened during the last two books of “Way of the Wicked”, where his hard drive blew and he didn’t have a back up, that could be make things even worse.
So, again, not a stupid question. It’s just a lot to unpack and there’s some troublesome baggage to watch out for should someone decide to try their hand at it. Nothing might ever come of it, but it’s worth noting just in case.
Yeah, I'm not suggesting publishing it or trying to take money for it. More just a fan document (pdf or something) that complies all the stuff that's out there. As a resource to GM's want to utilize it. This wouldn't necessarily cover assets like art or maps.
Again, not saying you should do this. Just wondering if it was possible and more importantly feasible.
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Yeah, I'm not suggesting publishing it or trying to take money for it. More just a fan document (pdf or something) that complies all the stuff that's out there. As a resource to GM's want to utilize it. This wouldn't necessarily cover assets like art or maps.
Again, not saying you should do this. Just wondering if it was possible and more importantly feasible.
Oh, it's definitely possible. Not sure about feasibility. There was one person, Alice, who was posting on the thread regularly, who had done her own run of the AP and said she was fully committed to releasing it. Gave us highlights of what each "book" would contain over the course of a few weeks, and how she had run the game for her players. She's been missing from the site for going on 3-4 years now. No one knows what happened to her. We never saw her release her campaign notes anywhere.
But for a resource, the closest we have for that at this moment is my blog, which I made sure to itemize what changes for what AP, and other things I've done. I wanted to make it as easy and as accessible for GMs as I could possibly make it.
That link should access every build, every modification, every conversion, and every write up possible that I've done or found. Even the Player's Guide should be linked in there somewhere. It's thankfully only about 5 pages (so far), so it's not that heavy of reading, or sifting through.
The only thing not posted on there is the synopsis of each book, but I posted here on the thread. It's post #708, and looks to be on page 15. Unfortunately, the Google+ pages were are shut down, so all the cool art from Micheal on there got lost, but thankfully Pinterest and Google Images saved some of them, and I got to keep what I found. I can't imagine how many were lost.
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It should also be added that about 5 1/2 years ago, Weslocke released his synopsis for the rest of the AP. When I found it, I copied/pasted it from his original location to here.
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And the third entry of the next mini-series of posts.
Throne of Night, The Other Book 5 Encounters
Again, less "encounters" on this one, and more "skill challenges", it seems. Anyone who's done Pathfinder Society has met with these a lot, especially the past few seasons. As such, I made sure to include an example of mechanics. After GMing PFS for eight years and being an agent (VA and VL) for three, you experience a ridiculous number of examples and almost have them ingrained to memory.
There's a mix of old and new art in this one. Old for anyone who was part of the Kickstarter, and new for anyone who wasn't able to access to the updates.
I make sure to do so each time and have them all posted on my Ko-Fi after receiving one, but I definitely want to take a moment and thank everyone that's supported me thus far in that regard. There's no obligation to do so, but when it happens, I'm always eternally grateful. More so during this economic slump as freelance is at an all-time low, especially when so many gaming stores and warehouses announcing they're permanently closing.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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I'm making a resource page of all the relevant posts and trying to compile everything, and there's a lot of text of people getting trolly back in the day, and even more posts removed by Paizo mods for violent threats, baseless accusations, etc. It's been so long that I'd forgotten about most of them. I've now come to this post.
Mar 16, 2015, 01:28 pm
Fire Mountain games should hire you. You have been doing most the work for them on these boards since Gary disappeared.
If only that had happened. Not saying things would be different though. There's no hindsight here. I remember writing two separate letters and sending it via snail mail to Gary's place, and even had Michael forward an email copy of one of them, to Gary, which the artist all too happy to do on my behalf, adding he'd encourage the author to consider my words of a variant version of an "internship". Michael said that if he was capable of making hiring decisions, he would consider bringing me in as a "community manager", in addition to taking on some writing duties, but that he held no such power. Regardless, it still meant the world to me that he'd say that.
Not long afterwards, Michael said Gary stayed silent on what I'd put forward for quite a while, until right before he laid off Michael, saying he was good to go on the writing of the stat blocks and just needed to finish writing the adventure itself into coherent sentences. That was back in 2016. Michael had drawn 52 maps and 180 illustrations (by his estimation), and filled out the entire art order he was to do for the AP.
I can't say I don't think about this from time to time. Probably more so lately as I do my own builds and entries. Especially Michael's words that Gary had told him he'd every intention of finishing the AP. That all Michael's efforts wouldn't be squandered.
It might not mean much now, but I'm definitely doing my part in making sure Michael's art is being showcased and the gaming community see just how good of an artist he is. At least what art I've been able to find of it. It's certainly not no 52 maps and 180 illustrations though. >_<
Even after all these years, my answer would surprisingly probably still be the same.
Personally, I'd have loved to freelance for FMG. It was Gary's praise for the work I had been doing on his first AP that inspired me to be a freelancer, and now I've gone two write-ups for Purple Duck Games, and working on a third. Now, I don't know what's going on. If he e-mailed me tomorrow saying he needed some stats written up, or needed someone to bounce ideas off of, I'd be all for it. Anything to get this going again.
That “two write ups with a third coming soon”, paraphrased, is much higher nowadays. And I still stand by my words that if Gary saw my work, and stole it all just so he could finish the AP, I’d have no regrets or hesitation in letting him. I’d just asked for some kind of writer’s credit added to the book, even it was in Font size 6.
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I backed Throne of Night - I also have a Kickstarter that's roughly 2 years behind schedule. So I have the fun view of both sides of the equation.
I think Gary is working to finish the books and is likely using revenue from sales of other products to offset budget shortfalls, but I think he's failing in transparency with his backers. Having backers of my own projects who have been VERY negative despite all attempts to keep backers informed and up-to-date, I honestly can't blame him for it. There have been times I have gone in GREAT detail over the challenges, obstacles, and mistakes made in the project - yet some backers just don't care aside from "where's my stuff?" It is demotivating and leads to a cycle of not wanting to give an update. When I gave an update that rewards were shipping, I then got backers posting DAILY about why there weren't updates - despite my last update specifying that rewards were shipping.
When projects like this run over their expected timelines, it creates a domino effect, impacting other projects, your personal life, and so much more. It is an absolutely soul-crushing scenario - believe me, I've been in it. Some backers are INCREDIBLY supportive, others don't care what you do if they haven't received EVERY SINGLE ITEM their reward tier specifies, regardless of how in-depth you go of why they haven't gone out yet. It doesn't matter how much they've already received - if they don't have each and every item, you catch hell every single day you're past your ESTIMATED delivery date.
My suggestion in this instance would be for Gary to give more than just a short "things are taking longer than expected" and give SOME indicator as to why - if it was budget shortfall, if it was resource issues, if it was personal matters (those can be kept as short as "personal matters") - but as a backer, AND as a Kickstarter creator with a project equally overdue, his explanations thus far have simply been too vague and that's why there's continued animosity.
Another post from 2015. Sometimes I need a reminder that everyone is human and can get depressed or de-motivated quite easily, and that I need to just keep my mouth shut on certain things instead of getting upset. But at the same time, everyone's responsible for their own actions. It's a two-way street.
If the completion of ToN happens, I'd be very happy. Maybe not forgiving, but I'd still give credit where credit's due.
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There have been a handful of projects that have been rescued on KS, but all of those involved friendly handovers. Since it has exceeded the five year time limit with no work or communication offered, is there an opportunity for assuming an unfinished project? Everything else can be solved, that is the tricky part...
It can definitely take on an unfinished project. It’s what Frog God Games did for Razor Coast after it was crazy behind schedule. But the publishers I’ve talked wouldn’t touch this with a 50 ft pole. There’s too much negativity surrounding the AP and they’d never see a financial return. And that’s assuming anyone is able track down Gary and get him to relent.
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A little over four years ago, Gary gave us the synopsis of Books 3 through 6, and stayed silent on Book 7. At the time, I only posted the one massive exposition synopsis that he gave us that year.
Yeah, I did that back on page 15 for everyone so they could essentially do the same thing. Linked for your convenience.Does anybody have a synopsis for all 6 adventures for this adventure path?
I have the first two adventures and a synopsis for the third but cant find the rest of them outlined. I figure I'm going to finish these adventures myself but would like to see what he had outlined for them.
However, since writing my own entries, I rediscovered that he's already written down Book 3's synopsis, but with details.
Most of this I covered when I was adding in my own changes and stat builds. Best of all, it's much more elaborate and separated by the Explorer/Overlord categories. Apparently you even fight different bosses, or they're fixated on different ones.
Book Three: Death or Dammerhall! (Level 10-13)
Warning: This synopsis contains serious spoilers for Throne of Night. You have been warned.
Explorer (Dwarf)
Following the cryptic markings of the map recovered from the mine, the explorers discover an old tunnel hidden behind a secret door long forgotten even by the dwarves. At last -- the long lost seventh gate of Dammerhall has been rediscovered! Though the map hints at how to open the door, it is still a challenge to understand its secrets.
Once open, the dwarves may journey to the lowest levels of lost Dammerhall. This entire book is set within this massive lost city. The city, though lost to wreck and ruin, is still full of countless wonders and lost secrets of the dwarven people. Pages of maps explore its many splendors and reveal the magnificence of this dwarven city in great detail. What they discover is that the city is not as abandoned as they were lead to believe.
There are two factions still active within Dammerhall. The first faction is made of up dwarves but warped and twisted with mutations and strange bestial traits. These are the survivors of the fall of Dammerhall and they call themselves Hazzuk-mûn. The great dwarven kingdom did not fall from external threat. The players uncover a monstrous plot and an alliance made between dwarf and a powerful shape-changing deep dragon. The conspirators and their descendants, horribly warped by dark magic, persist in Dammerhall to this day.
But there are allies here too. Upon the day the black flame was called forth, the crypts of Dammerhall gave up the spirits of the High Kings of the dwarves. These ghosts wrought a terrible curse upon the Mountain sealing it so that twisted Hazzuk-mûn might be contained. Now the PCs must purge the dragon-king of Dammerhall from his corrupt throne and find one worthy amongst them to again bear the title of High King.
Through blood and battle, Dammerhall will be reclaimed!
Overlord (Drow)
The drow too must figure out how to get into Dammerhall and they too find a vast city locked in unending warfare between righteous dwarven ancestor-ghosts and the twisted half-dragon dwarves. But the drow are more interested in pillaging the wealth of these dwarven halls. Mithral! Mithral everywhere! Mithral all but blows down the streets in the former dwarven capital.
There are many things they might do with this wealth, but one becomes all too obvious when they discover they are not the only drow in the city. The drow city-state of Taaryssia has been waiting for decades for someone to solve the puzzle of sealed gate. Now that Dammerhall is reopened they have sent a rival band to pillage its depth. The overlords must defeat their rivals and learn the current state of Taaryssia the City-Without-Mercy.
They learn that they have the chance to replace the current demi-god queen that sits upon the Merciless Throne. They see it – the method wherein they call rule all of the Azathyr! Immortality is within their grasp! With the dragon's hoard they will raise a great army and claim at last a Throne of Night.
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Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.
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I am in love with this encounter. I could run it as a one-shot. I mean, I'm a sucker for all the creatures presented as well as Lovecraftian/Dark Tapestry/ Dominion of the Black themes. But this is just masterful.
So the issue I had with Book 5 at the beginning was it didn't really have much in the way of explaining how we were suddenly becoming Lovecraftian. Thought the sub would be the perfect gateway for that, and wrote what I wrote. And I knew I'd be somewhat off basis. So it looks like the sub is what houses the thanadaemons, neh-thalggu, and even a neothelid. On Mike's own personal site, under the Monsters link (which I had found by sheer accident), the description of the picture says "Neothelid in Technomagical Sub". That's not on his deviantart or anywhere else. It's just "Neothelid" on the other pages.
Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.
Bless you! This is precisely what is needed to keep all this effort from fading into forgetfulness.
I may run this AP someday.
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Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.Bless you! This is precisely what is needed to keep all this effort from fading into forgetfulness.
I may run this AP someday.
Yeah, felt this was a better way to go about things rather than continuously re-sharing and re-posting all the previous posts. Eventually something's going to get lost or it'll be done too often and essentially look like spam. Not to mention this is far more convenient overall. Time saving is definitely the way to go.
Yeah, felt this was a better way to go about things rather than continuously re-sharing and re-posting all the previous posts. Eventually something's going to get lost or it'll be done too often and essentially look like spam. Not to mention this is far more convenient overall. Time saving is definitely the way to go.Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.Bless you! This is precisely what is needed to keep all this effort from fading into forgetfulness.
I may run this AP someday.
Not that I have immediate plans to run this, but I really like the idea of a campaign with multiple entry points. I think that's what sold so many folks on it. That and WoftW being so good.
Even the idea of potentially multiple parties is really cool to me, though obviously ridiculously ambitious.
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And yet another theory build. Yeah, I thought I was good to go, but then I found a link on Mike's site that technically doesn't exist. Seems he made it just for the "monster" encounters, but didn't link it to the main site. Go figure. It was there that I discovered that two of the monsters are part of the submarine level. So I felt compelled to do something about that. Apparently I need to knock on wood harder.
Unknown Encounter 18 - The Denizens in the Sub
There's three builds in this one. The most I'd done before was two. The main encounter and their companion/pet, or the main encounter and links to the monsters they'd summon.
Not much in the way of new art. They're on his Deviantart, but it's still impressive every time I see it.
Next time I should be doing the other encounters for Book 6.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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Not that I have immediate plans to run this, but I really like the idea of a campaign with multiple entry points. I think that's what sold so many folks on it. That and WoftW being so good.
Even the idea of potentially multiple parties is really cool to me, though obviously ridiculously ambitious.
Stupid ridiculously ambitious, and that seems to be what really killed this one in the end. Lots of overlap, but given the synopsis for Book 3, it's obvious that Gary started to divert and give each party their own story ending. Which is fine, in a video game, but when you have to keep things to a certain word count for a book, so you're not paying through the nose when the time comes to print said book, you start to look at cutting corners, and that really hurts your story in the end. The way I saw this AP was that it was quickly becoming a "choose your own adventure" story, and eventually you might find yourself written in a corner. Still, this could have been quite the story for generations to come.
Regarding multiple entry points, this was the first story for me, that really had that available, and not be a death trap. I grew up with Tomb of Horrors, and even recently the FGG Rappan Athuk. Although the latter had some that weren't death traps, but might have instead dropped you into an incredibly high level area that you weren't even remotely ready for. If you were lucky, the creature was slower than you and you could escape.
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Not sure what compelled me to do so many entries today, but here's the last two entries for book encounters.
Throne of Night, The Other Book 6 Encounters
Throne of Night, Other Encounters from Unknown Books
Again, a mix of old and new art in these. And as far as I am aware, that's it for encounters. Nothing has come my way saying otherwise, and there's nothing that makes me think there's other ones that need class levels.
The last entry, which should happen by the end of the week, if I hear back from everyone, especially fellow game designers, is the true mithral entry. It's not that anyone needs that, nor would it break anyone's game to not have it elaborated on. But, after that, I think that'll do it for anything I might have to say for "Throne of Night".
I can't even imagine there being anything else. Anyone who wants to correct me is more than welcome to. I'll at least hear you out.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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It's too bad that Pathfinder 1e couldn't have stuck around a little while longer. Going through the 2e bestiary on Archives of Nethys, and both the drakauthix and grikkitog would have made for excellent additions for this AP.
If anyone wants to convert them back over, or knows someone who has, be sure to share. I know of someone, but you have to be part of their Patreon's higher tier or commission them directly.
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Because apparently I didn't do nearly enough entries yesterday (a whole three), I've got another entry today as well. This time, however, it's not a theory build or anything like that. I was going through old 3.5 drow books, and came across more items that would fit really well with this AP.
Didn't want to write everything down, so I just copy/pasted and did a little Paint Shop collage work.
There's a couple of magic items, but mostly it's armor and adventuring gear.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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The new bestiary from Purple Duck Games, that I helped do a few monster stat blocks for, was reviewed by Endzeitgeist and received a 5 star rating with seal of approval. I'm so very happy to hear about this.
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Today, I'm posting what may very well be my last post on my blog regarding Throne of Night. At least with regards to how it's presented. If anything new comes my way, I'll deal with it then.
New Special Material - Gunzarak
Thank you everyone for allowing me to be selfish and posting a ridiculous amount of times on this thread, flooding it with theory builds and everything else.
Appreciate you for coming with me on this journey. Anyone who decides to run the AP, I wish you luck.
EDIT: Made sure to post the relevant links on the main threads for books 1 and 2. Hopefully this way anyone who has or will start this AP can complete it some form, and no longer feels quite so abandoned anymore. We're all in this together, after all.
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Stay healthy and safe.
I’d like to add that next week will mark the 7th anniversary date (May 7th) of when the Kickstarter for this AP came to a close. Huh. That’s some crazy timing that I managed to somehow finish things today.
Congratulations!
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I’d like to add that next week will mark the 7th anniversary date (May 7th) of when the Kickstarter for this AP came to a close. Huh. That’s some crazy timing that I managed to somehow finish things today.Congratulations!
Thanks. If Gary ever does release the real deal, so be it, but it doesn't really matter much anymore. Still, the actual AP would be wonderful for completion sake. What I've done is only an aid to those who can make use of it, and will never truly replace the real thing.
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Like yesterday, here's a converted creature that you can put into the game. The DC's are a little high, but then it's save for half, and it doesn't have much in the way of standard attacks, so it's fine.
This is a creature that absolutely should be found in the mushroom forest. Especially if you're playing good or neutral aligned characters. Maybe not so much for the drow. Although, that could be an interesting turn of events as well.
Of course, just because the original is large-sized, doesn't mean that's what the PCs have to find. It's more than possible to find huge-sized ones to fit larger parties.
** spoiler omitted **...
Five years ago, I converted an old 3.X 3PP monster from Bastion Press. I was still new to converting monsters and didn't know the depths of balance. I also, unlike the cavernivore, never posted it on my blog. Have no idea what. The nice thing about that though is I get the opportunity to do better than I had before, and give a more balanced version.
Monster Conversion - Blessed Ring.
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Stay healthy and safe.
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I'd just like to say that one of the absolute worst things you could possibly do is accidentally delete one of your entries. Thankfully I recalled most of the text that I had put on there in the first place, but that sub level with thanadaemons and neothelid is going to sound relatively different from what I put down before. The same message and thought process should still be apparent, but unless someone happened to save what I put down before, what's there now will have to be how it is. ^^; All I meant to do was clean it up and format things. Didn't mean to erase it all and save it. Oh well. It's all "new" now.
I'd just like to say that one of the absolute worst things you could possibly do is accidentally delete one of your entries. Thankfully I recalled most of the text that I had put on there in the first place, but that sub level with thanadaemons and neothelid is going to sound relatively different from what I put down before. The same message and thought process should still be apparent, but unless someone happened to save what I put down before, what's there now will have to be how it is. ^^; All I meant to do was clean it up and format things. Didn't mean to erase it all and save it. Oh well. It's all "new" now.
I really like the concept if the Submarine level, but like... why Thanodaemons working with a Neothelid? Looks cool but... why? I guess that's more a question for Gary.
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I really like the concept if the Submarine level, but like... why Thanodaemons working with a Neothelid? Looks cool but... why? I guess that's more a question for Gary.
Yeah, even looking at the lore, I can’t figure it out. Like, is the River Styx part of the water supply that runs into the sub? I don’t get it.
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I really like the concept if the Submarine level, but like... why Thanodaemons working with a Neothelid? Looks cool but... why? I guess that's more a question for Gary.Yeah, even looking at the lore, I can’t figure it out. Like, is the River Styx part of the water supply that runs into the sub? I don’t get it.
The closest I've found is this:
Using a thanadaemon simply to cross the River Styx is usually a safe bet, but expecting it to bring you back or take you far up and down the river is another story—one with betrayal written in the final chapter. Because while ferrying souls is their job, harvesting souls is their reason for being.Adventurers find themselves trapped in the silvery void of the Abyss. A thanadaemon answers their call, offering to transport them to wherever they wish. However, if they do not specify the route, they will first spend as much as a year winding through the hope-sapping marshes that border the River Styx.
So maybe the neothelid found a way to summon them, and wanted the daemons to take them to a location where there'd be a lot of river traffic for potential slaves, experiments, brains to harvest, etc, for the right price. In exchange, the thanadaemons get to harvest each soul, making them as powerful as I have them listed. In 3.5e, Charon got more powerful with each defeat (like he was a saiyan or something) and when he fulfilled his duty and took X number of souls across the river every century. (I think I'm remembering that correctly.)
But if that's the case, then my theory about the sub having locked in coordinates for getting back, might be wrong, unless that's a backup in case the neothelid decides to betray the daemons. It's possible then that the PCs could make a deal with the daemons, and after giving some coin, allow the daemons to harvest alien souls from that point forward in exchange to be taken to Ground Zero of where this is all originating from (ie. the aboleth city).
But you're definitely correct @Artofregicide, it's definitely a question for Gary. Anything else is just spitballing.
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Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.
I keep adding and adding to this. It's currently about three pages in length. Be sure to check out the map links.
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Stay healthy and safe.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Finally went through all 30 pages and created an official "resource document" of all the pertinent information on this forum thread regarding the AP.I keep adding and adding to this. It's currently about three pages in length. Be sure to check out the map links.
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Stay healthy and safe.
You are both a saint and a scholar.
I don’t know about that, but I absolutely welcome the praise. XD It feels good.
Fine then. You have a considerable number of levels in both expert and oracle?