Molthune is way more Soviet Russia then a Nazi Germany.
I'd have to ask, are you looking to make him what the nazi's considered ideal Arayan? (i.e. blue eyes, blonde hair) Or more 'normal' German population representive?
The idea Hitler had was that Arayans had ties to the Vikings of old, meaning I'd make your villian Ulfen, and probably from Nidal, or Cheliaxian.
Otherwise a plan Varisian makes a good parallel to the 'natural' people of Germany. Especially if your looking to slide a bit more into Eastern Europe background.
He's just from a part of the world whose government is more willing to allow torturous experiments at the expense of humanity than other parts of the world. (Which to be fair was most of Europe at one point).
Which to be fair encompasses pretty much anywhere on Earth - not just Europe. Many many governments from North to South and East to West have done some pretty despicable things when it comes to civil liberties and unlawful experimentation on people.
He's just from a part of the world whose government is more willing to allow torturous experiments at the expense of humanity than other parts of the world. (Which to be fair was most of Europe at one point).
Well, in that case, make him an ex Gray Gardener from Galt. He joined up because of the power and secrecy it offered him, but was cast out because his methods were too disgusting even for them.
Sounds like what you are aiming at would the "Mad Scientist" from any of the Gothic Horror movies... Frankenstein, et. al.
In that case, I would suggest a character from Ustalav....
BTW if you want some more gruesome experiments, Japans in China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
America in America, with convicts btw and many, many more
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_ States
Did you ever consider that stuff like this can be pretty offending too?
All across the board people are complaining about whatever and its all taken so serious.
To me, the it is offending.
Especially the german=nazi part and that the villain has to look like this. It´s an inadequate misuse of stereotypes.
To be fair, Molthune comes off as Bismarckian Germany to me.
Same here.
Whatever may be the different influences from the real world for Golarion, this is not cool:
"...who's kind of a psychotic Nazi. I wanted a more authentic race to call him by, rather than "German" for the sake of keeping authenticity in the realm."
I honor the quest for authenticy though.
Also i don´t have stuff on Molthune.Bismarck though was a great guy and had nothing to do with nazis, he introduced social welfare to Germany.
You make me smile :)
Although i think its more individual.
While some think halfling or kitsune would suit me well, i know others that might very well be half-orcs some, some eladrin, some elves, and whatever. It´s more individual i guess.
And being a good part German, with Old World relatives and some newer in-laws from the Old Country, let me also go on record as saying that there are plenty of Germans around all too ready to walk right into the stereotype of cold, blonde, tall, stand-offish, snobby and a bit racist.
So what's the point? Yeah, like everybody else in the world, Germans have good points. And like everybody else in the world, Germans unfortunately sometimes fit right into the worst of their stereotypes. The good news is, individuals of every sort still vary, and being a walking stereotype does not make you a less valuable human being.
My recommendation? Watch more Mel Brooks movies. If anybody can help us get over our sniffly problems with poking fun at races of all sorts (and especially at those who called themselves Nazis) it's Mel.
Look, we're all human. Which means we're all nutso b+$#!&%~s. Let's not get uptight. Let's make fun of ourselves. It's the least we can do.
A pure-bred Hermean.
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And being a good part German, with Old World relatives and some newer in-laws from the Old Country, let me also go on record as saying that there are plenty of Germans around all too ready to walk right into the stereotype of cold, blonde, tall, stand-offish, snobby and a bit racist.
So what's the point? Yeah, like everybody else in the world, Germans have good points. And like everybody else in the world, Germans unfortunately sometimes fit right into the worst of their stereotypes. The good news is, individuals of every sort still vary, and being a walking stereotype does not make you a less valuable human being.
My recommendation? Watch more Mel Brooks movies. If anybody can help us get over our sniffly problems with poking fun at races of all sorts (and especially at those who called themselves Nazis) it's Mel.
Look, we're all human. Which means we're all nutso b*&$###$s. Let's not get uptight. Let's make fun of ourselves. It's the least we can do.
Like it sounds you are american, not german.
You´ve ever been to Germany? I bet not.I am german and i don´t know any such people here.
The picture you conjure fits more to skandinavian people from Ikea advertisement, at least the tall and blonde part.
I won´t start calling people from other countries names, but i politely ask you to be more sensitive. It would suit you pretty well.
Thanks a lot.
While I may come up with languages based on word structure of earth languages, I try to avoid comparisons between earth races and cultures and ones on Golarion. I try to develop the various cultures as unique to Golarion as possible. I get a bit tired of every created commercial world being an earth copy-cat. Just my opinion. Make your villain a unique character, not a Nazi cut out.
And being a good part German, with Old World relatives and some newer in-laws from the Old Country, let me also go on record as saying that there are plenty of Germans around all too ready to walk right into the stereotype of cold, blonde, tall, stand-offish, snobby and a bit racist.
So what's the point? Yeah, like everybody else in the world, Germans have good points. And like everybody else in the world, Germans unfortunately sometimes fit right into the worst of their stereotypes. The good news is, individuals of every sort still vary, and being a walking stereotype does not make you a less valuable human being.
My recommendation? Watch more Mel Brooks movies. If anybody can help us get over our sniffly problems with poking fun at races of all sorts (and especially at those who called themselves Nazis) it's Mel.
Look, we're all human. Which means we're all nutso b*&$###$s. Let's not get uptight. Let's make fun of ourselves. It's the least we can do.
Like it sounds you are american, not german.
You´ve ever been to Germany? I bet not.
I am german and i don´t know any such people here.
The picture you conjure fits more to skandinavian people from Ikea advertisement, at least the tall and blonde part.I won´t start calling people from other countries names, but i politely ask you to be more sensitive. It would suit you pretty well.
Thanks a lot.
I'm German, and I know that such people exist here. It helps to spend some time away from home to notice them. Gives you perspective.
Don't be so prickly (except if you identify yourself with that description, then you have all right to be prickly, because it fits the stereotype. ;) ) No-one called anyone any names here.
I don't agree on watching Mel Brooks' movies, however. They are just bad. I also don't agree on Bismarck. The man was - quite frankly - a bastard (and I'd rather use a worse word for him).
Yeah, as a German I find the phrasing of this thread unfortunate. To say the least.
Yes, the phrasing is unfortunate, but I don't see anyone purposely putting down Germans or Germany. The OP made it clear that is all in reference to movie and video game tropes and that his group associated it with stereotypes of Germans. Heck, he even apologized for any offense he may have caused. I think that everyone participating in this thread recognizes the differences between fiction and reality and that someone who wants a Fu Manchu-style villain for their game doesn't necessarily think all East Asians are sneaky, underhanded, poison wielding mystics who smoke opium from long stemmed pipes. The same applies to mad scientists with a German-esque background.
In answer to the OP, I think a Chelaxian from Nidal would be appropriate.
well I think the chelaxian analogy is really good for the nazi idea. WW2 era Germany was a nation like any nation, that was taken over by a government that was not at all what it seemed, and was not at all in the line of what the country had been (or has been since) So the House of Thrune is an excellent parallel to the Nazi Government, and Germans are well "european" and most art I've seen for Chelaxians make them look "Eurpoean". (ie caucasians)
The enslaved halflings and second class citizen tieflings are a good mash of subjugation too. So I would vote Chelax.
To be shockingly honest, German myself, when we started Council of Thieves I tried to explain the setting to my girlfriend as like during WW2. Oppression from the above, a group of external police and a curfew, also a ghetto... just sounded about right.
But I have also have to say, one of the players went ballistic and said one never takes that time as a reference point.
How about a scot?
Och. We're loved the world o'er laddie. Nae villianous Scots...
If yer on the lookoot fer a right villian o' a German - look nae further than the sassanach royal family ;)
Edit: Germany as we know it is also a lot younger then most of Europe. I think it has only been a country for about 200 years, as opposed to say England who has sort of been sculpting its identity for the last 1000+ years. Not to say Germany does not have culture that is as old, just that I do...
That is actually wrong. Not on the "unified Germany" part, but on the rest of Europe. The whole "national identity" thing is much more recent than you probably think.... and for everybody in Europe, not only the Germans. Most people in the middle ages paid fealty to their local feudal lord. Germany just had a bad case of factional independency from the Kaiser, who was the nominal leader of the German Reich since the middle ages up until 1806 and then again after the unification in 1871.
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I've always seen Molthune as Nazi Germany, all the way. There is a sentence in the early description of Molthune in The Inner Sea Guide that made me think that it was Paizo's Nazi kingdom but that Paizo couldn't go too far in their descriptive text without offending some people and so toned it down a bit.
I think Russia is more in Brevoy, Iobaria, Issia and the far northeast. Or, lots of people see Galt as Red Revolution Russia, so...
I don't think, with two obvious possible "Russias," Molthune would make for a good Russia. (Especially since it makes more sense to have Molthune as Germany)
Anyhoo,
my 2 coppers.
The Ulfen, are almost identical to Anglo/Saxon....which where Germanic tribes.
Germanic, Scandinavian, and Norse....all have far more in common than differences.
Ustilav generally makes me think "Russian".
Kellid, especially as described in reference to Sarkoris, feel very much like bronze age inhabitants of the British Isles.
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Foreword of sorts: this all an opinion of dubious quality written in a coffee-frenzied trance.
To W E Ray: that's a bit of prickle to swallow, your image of Molthune. I'm not saying it's wrong(well, actually I'm saying exactly that), just that it's a bit misinformed, that's all. Take for instance, Molthune's predilection to offer citizenship as the prize for military service. To me that evokes the late renaissance reforms more than anything. Then there's idea of using non-human regiments flavored with nepotism that resembles Imperial Rome, with non-latinites being replaced with non-humans naturally. If anything, Molthune is a hodgepodge of Imperial Germany and Rome(visually) and of various militant late-renaissance and classic states. Prussia, for instance. Cool coats, strict doctrine and waxed moustaches. It's from where all wandering PC's with a military background hail from - far from geopolitical or planar outsider agendas.
Nighttree, I kind of have a headcanon that's going against the idea of Kellids as celts, gaelics or silurians. True, they seem to have vested interest in the building of monoliths, painted tribesmen and all, but those same barbarians originally went on to become the foundations of many non-Ulfenic (notice that Irrisen is ethnically an Ulfen kingdom, only the ruling family is from Triaxus) northern regions. Ustalav, Brevoy(sure, originally colonised by ulfens, but ethnically Kellid), Sarkoris, some River Kingdoms and Numeria including various tribal lands in the Siberia-expy Iobaria.
Sure they tend to get portrayed as a million different things, from Cimmerians to Tatars, but I've taken a liking to them as the Slavic peoples of the campaign setting. It's not perfect, I know, however the geographic location fits pretty perfectly with the proximity of both the northern sea and Iobaria, and thematically Brevoy for instance makes for a damn fine Novgorod while the Stolen Lands just echo with the feel of mythic Russia - parts of Kingmaker brought to mind Edouard Uspenski(Otfried Preußler as well, but that' another story) of all things. Pretty cool coming from an American company
I agree though that River Kingdoms are a strange area that seems to struggle against direct derivatives, with the local folklore being a mishmash of Russian and British Isles things and the Kellid works of Ustalav have a strange occultish feel which I'd be loathe to coin as Slavic. I tend to blame the fey and the denizens of the Dark Tapestry, myself. And those darn cyclopes! :D
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Well, ethnically, a lot of different people are called "German" today. Northern Germans tend to be taller and fairer, while Barvarians and Swabians are stouter and a bit darker in complexion.
We can compare Cheliax to fascist Spain, China under Shih Huang Ti, and Communist Cambodia and Russia just as easily as Nazi Germany. Lawful evil is lawful evil. I'm half German myself and have visited many times. Medieval "Germany" was a mess of small states with several large ones - like the river kingdoms. Southern Germans might be described as Ustilavian, Northerners as Ulfen.
My two cents are, its a slightly hurtful stereotype to talk about Germans as Nazis. My German ancestors were heavily persecuted by the Nazis for their beliefs.
Molthune is like napoleonic prussia, Galt was revolutionary France. Meanwhile Nirmthas looks like Scotland, Wales, and Ireland was merged with Robin Hood.
Strange. When i look at Golarion i see most notably: GOLARION.
I never saw elves, orcs, devils, neither clerics or wizards and other specifics appearing on Golarion here in Europe.
Mh, but then Hogwarts isn´t just round the corner, it´s in the UK and we never saw some of that stuff happen there swap over here.
Perhaps summoning outsiders, especially the evil ones and binding them is easier over the ocean. Probably that´s why all the evil summoners left here some centuries ago to "the land of the free".
If i look at it from this angle, suddenly a lot of things make a lot more sense. Lol.
Anywhoo! The charcter can be form wherever you want if you roleplay him reasonably well then its all kushty. (kushty means good, excellent etc.)
Back to the ops initial question try korvosa. They egotistical elitists and with the acadamae wierd and disturbing experiments are likely.