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On friday I was in a game in which a player failed a roll and tried to use his shirt that he had with him. The DM refused to let him use it as he was not wearing it. Keep in mind it was sitting in his bag next to him on the floor. The DM also went on to state that if someone tried to use the new character folio and didn't have it sitting on the table the entire time he wouldn't let them use it either.
The player of course didn't get his prestige quest finished, though the rest of the players tried to help him. None of our level 1 characters could make the check so he lost out.
My question is this. I was under the assumption that as long as you had a shirt with you you were golden. If Mike or someone high up could saye what exactly is the rule that would be great. Cause it kinda sucked for everyone else to get his prestige quest done but this guy didn't.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Hey there, Cylyria.
The goal is to encourage the Pathfinder community to make our affiliation visible, to be a big happy cult. You can't do that if you're shamefacedly hiding your shirt.
For what it's worth: I also require that the magical re-roll shirt be worn during the roll that you want to re-roll; that's the rule. But I also try to remember to let the table know that well before you might need to use it.
Typically, my spiel is something like: "I see that [Player X] has a Pathfinder shirt. That's good for a re-roll. I'm also wearing one, which I'll donate to all the rest of you. Not [Player X]; you don't get more than one re-roll, mister! But everybody else, first come first serve, you can use my shirt as a re-roll."
If, after that, you still want to hide your shirt and not wear it, no skin off my nose; but you should realize that it's waiting, dormant.
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I believe the shirt was just sitting on his bag next to him. If that is the rule then so be it, but he's the first GM I have seen in the 4 or 5 years I've been doing PFS that actually enforced it.
However, there was never any discussion ahead of time about where the shirt should be. As I said previously, if that is rule fine. Just wish something had been said. I felt bad for the guy, especially as the other 5 characters proceeded to set the consecutive low roll record trying to help him.
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I have a local player that can't wear his shirt, mainly due to the fact that he is like 6'8" and wears a 5x or something like that. I have no problem letting him use his shirt reroll when he is not wearing his shirt because they don't really make one his size. Is it fair to make him stick with the rule to? I say the gm is being a dick.
And I agree with Kyle, murdering pc's is fun. I earned my second star with my first tpk. It really did happen that way, but it wasn't really all that intentional, the tpk that is. :P
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Favorite Faction or Goblin D20 Shirt
S....Sold Out
M....Sold Out
L....Sold Out
XL...Sold Out
2XL..Sold Out
3XL..Available
4XL .Available
Having a GM only letting shirt re-rolls while enforcing that you wear your oversize Faction shirt like a art class smock..pretty stellar.
Is there news of more Faction shirts being available?
And yea kinda agree that's a jerk move on the GM's part. Is there a ruling on how you have to wear the shirt? Can you wear it like a cape,scarf, or hat?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Chris, I make exceptions for people who are too large for their shirt. But just because one person can't wear theirs, I don't think I'm being an ass for asking the other players, who can follow the rule, to do so. I'm sorry you feel differently.
Robert -- If you don't want to wear a magical shirt, then don't. It's not a requirement to play the game.
I remember when Missouri passed a law requiring motorcyclists to wear helmets. One guy was pulled over for having a helmet strapped to his knee. I'd allow "as a scarf", so long as the logo was visible, but not "cape" or "hat".
Come on people, what's so tough about this? I've had people in the last couple of months argue that they'd gotten a Paizo shotglass and that earned them a re-roll, or bought a goblin plushie and that earned them a re-roll. Baloney. Everybody wants a re-roll, and there's all sorts of push back against the rule for getting one: wear a magical shirt or use a magical folio.
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Can you wear it like a cape,scarf, or hat?I once saw a player with their shirt in the neat triangle packaging ask to use their re-roll. The GM responded with, "Sure, but you have to be wearing it, so if you could please balance that shirt on your head while you reroll, we'll be in business". It was good for a laugh.
Heh. I've made similar requests.
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You guys are seriously angry at this DM? Just because he followed the rules. It seems to me the people getting angry here, over such a small thing, would be much worse to game with than this DM.
The GM was a jerk, but you're right, he was following the rules. The Organised Play guide has helped set him up to be a jerk.
Why does the PFS guide not just be clearer about "if they carry the shirt with them, they can use it for a reroll" or something?
This is a really easy fix and not everything's as commonsense to everybody as we think. There's a couple of things like this I've noticed in the guide that I will bring up in another thread or two later on.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Come on people, what's so tough about this? I've had people in the last couple of months argue that they'd gotten a Paizo shotglass and that earned them a re-roll, or bought a goblin plushie and that earned them a re-roll. Baloney. Everybody wants a re-roll, and there's all sorts of push back against the rule for getting one: wear a magical shirt or use a magical folio.
Yeah, I was quite surprised when someone pulled out a shot glass and said some GMs allow it for a reroll. I was like, "Uh, no. Read the guide. Shirts or folio, and only one of those allows a reroll."
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GM was being a jerk. I would choose not to play with anyone being that anal. Its a game and there is no sense in enforcing that rule which isn't usually enforced but not even mentioning it until the critical moment was another dick move. If the players sit down and the GM says, I have a hard fast rule that if you want your shirt re-rolls, you have to be wearing it. Its important that the GM do that because thats not the norm for our society. I have never seen a GM enforce the wearing it rule. In fact, some of our GMs are nice enough on rare occasion to bring a few shirts in for re-roll.
I started in April of this year and since I learned of the shirts, none have been available for purchase in my size except the god awful yellow osirion shirt, from which I have no toons with that faction. I think if you actually spend 25 dollars on a t-shirt to support Paizo and then you actually carry around that t-shirt to your game. You should get the re-roll... thats my 2 cp
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Why does the PFS guide not just be clearer about "if they carry the shirt with them, they can use it for a reroll" or something?
Probably because that is not the intention. What part of carrying a shirt around in your bag promotes the game on behalf of Paizo? It's not simply a "$25 shirt reroll".
It is a "promote our game to the world" reroll.
If the players sit down and the GM says, I have a hard fast rule that if you want your shirt re-rolls, you have to be wearing it.
What other rules do the GMs have to say are "real rules" when we sit down? Flanking? Concentration checks? It's a ruuuuuule. A real rule. In print. Like all the other rules that are involved in the game.
Just because some people like to end run Paizo's intent on this issue, basically screwing them out of any benefit to be had by their allowing rerolls, does not mean it is not a rule.
Things like this are why the folio is all of 9.99$, never needs to be washed and fits everyone.
If you want your re-roll so badly just pony up the 10 bucks and BAM! re-roll time.
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Where did I say it wasn't a rule? Please stop misrepresenting my argument.
The DM could have said 'you can have the reroll if you put the shirt on now and wear it the rest of the event. In the future, please remember that you must be wearing it for the duration of the event to get the free reroll'.
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Why does the PFS guide not just be clearer about "if they carry the shirt with them, they can use it for a reroll" or something?
Probably because that is not the intention. What part of carrying a shirt around in your bag promotes the game on behalf of Paizo? It's not simply a "$25 shirt reroll".
It is a "promote our game to the world" reroll.
If that's the case, then the GM wasn't being a jerk at all, and anyone who allows this is breaking a PFS rule. The rest of us are the jerks, if that's how it is.
We talked about what happens if you're at a 4-day con, should you wear the shirt everyday and not worry about whether you start to smell after a while? Of course not, keep it in your bag and take it out when you need it; that makes more sense. They did pay for the shirt after all, they're supporting Paizo.
Where's the line? The guide can make this crystal clear.
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Where did I say it wasn't a rule? Please stop misrepresenting my argument.
The DM could have said 'you can have the reroll if you put the shirt on now and wear it the rest of the event. In the future, please remember that you must be wearing it for the duration of the event to get the free reroll'.
True. And much more useful than "He's a dick". Thanks!
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Can you wear it like a cape,scarf, or hat?I once saw a player with their shirt in the neat triangle packaging ask to use their re-roll. The GM responded with, "Sure, but you have to be wearing it, so if you could please balance that shirt on your head while you reroll, we'll be in business". It was good for a laugh.
That is actually a creative way of dealing with a situation like that. Instead of completly refusing, offer an option that would satisfy that effort was involved. Quite an original request. Solutions and options will always outweigh complete refusal.
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That is actually a creative way of dealing with a situation like that. Instead of completly refusing, offer an option that would satisfy that effort was involved. Quite an original request. Solutions and options will always outweigh complete refusal.Can you wear it like a cape,scarf, or hat?I once saw a player with their shirt in the neat triangle packaging ask to use their re-roll. The GM responded with, "Sure, but you have to be wearing it, so if you could please balance that shirt on your head while you reroll, we'll be in business". It was good for a laugh.
And I imagine that's why a lot of the posters here are throwing around "he's a dick". A good GM would've offered a solution to the problem not a firm no.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I wear 5 and 6x shirts. I'm a big fat guy.
I have Donna's old Andoran shirt somewhere (she had a M, she was tiny.)
Tell you what, I'll wear her shirt as a thong, and let you deal with the nausea of making me 'prove' I'm wearing it.
Or if I bring it, I'll tack it up somewhere like a banner, to draw attention to the table.
(aside, the binder I use for my PCs/adventures I put the front page of the adventure I'm running in it, makes a nice visible table marker.)
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Solutions and options will always outweigh complete refusal.
Sure, if you want to completely give Paizo the shaft in this deal. Because promoting the company is what this deal is about. I am pretty sure that anyone who cares enough to learn about the rule and drop $25 on a T-shirt knows it needs to be worn to get the roll. Which other rules do you want to skip? People don't like to die, so maybe we could make those rules optional if people claim ignorance. That would also give people warm fuzzies without complying with the rules.
Sure, allow the shirt to be used for later rolls once the shirt has been donned. But for this one roll, you are SOL. Then maybe next time you actually promote the game instead of keeping it in your bag for whatever reason.
Sure, the GM with the OP could have been more diplomatic about it (get your shirts on and your folios out, people, because dem's de rules). But just to be clear, any position that says it is ok to get a re-roll for a shirt in a bag is completely hosing Paizo in this situation. Which I am not ok with. They are offering you a benefit to promote them. So do it. It's pretty simple.
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I've always thought the idea of shirt re-rolls was a bad idea- just another way to make the game easier, less challanging, and sell more product at the same time. That's why I have never bought a shirt and never will. Oh well, more munchkins, fewer grognards.
Why do you think that one reroll per session makes the game less challenging? It doesn't guarantee a success.
Also, anything that promotes the game is a win in my books. Just look at the messageboards today, three new VCs, which means that the player base is expanding. Visibility has a lot to do with that.
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Solutions and options will always outweigh complete refusal.Sure, if you want to completely give Paizo the shaft in this deal... It's pretty simple.
Solutions and options do not have to illiminate advertising and promotion of Pathfinder/Paizo.
Here's what it comes to
Refusing:
That Game master was mean, don't play PFS, they are just dbags
Solutions and options:
Wow, that game master had me do some crazy stuff because I didn't put on my shirt. But it was fun. You should come and try PFS too, it's cool. I won't forget to wear my shirt next time.