The Gnoooome Ranger! (PFS legal, advice request)

[The Gnoooome Ranger]

I'm thinking of making a gnomish Lone Ranger using 4 levels of Cavalier and the Horse Master feat, then the rest of the levels as a gunslinger.

Thus far, I'm looking at the Luring Cavalier archetype for the cavalier levels to give me the ranged challenge ability and using touch AC up to 2 range increments away.

For gunslinger I'm torn between Mysterious Stranger, either Pistolero or Pistolero with Gun Tank (I'll be in medium armor so losing nimble is fine). (Those are being considered for RP purposes as I really don't know the mechanics of gunslingers well; I've started reading through this guide but was hoping I might get some good advice here about how to build the character properly.)

I'm primarily asking for advice on 1-6:
1) Suggested stats; this is PFS so 20 point buy, but I'm a gnome, for better or worse.
2) Feats I need as a gunslinger to be effective
3) Gear selection to be useful as a gunslinger for a given archetype (i.e. what gun/guns, ammo, etc.)
4) Are there any cavalier orders that would be especially good or bad for this build? (mechanics-wise, as opposed to RP)
5) Are there any teamwork feats that would be particularly good with this build (since I get 1 free one at my first Cavalier level with Tactician, and my mount _might_ be able to take it at some point so it would always be up with an adjacent ally)?
6) Should I take either/any of the gunslinger archetypes? (I specifically want to use pistols for RP; is this awesome/good/bad/the worst ever, and how can I maximize my effectiveness given that it is awesome/good/bad/the worst ever?

7) Would a 1-level dip in druid (or Sable Company Marine ranger) be worthwhile to get a Roc/Hippogriff mount (loss of 1 BAB; lower HP; etc.)

8) Any other advice/suggestions/"this build will never work for the following reasons" (if so I may play it anyway, but at least I'll know in advance).

[VRMH]

Who'll be your Tonto?

[Lochmonster]

THANK YOU MASKED MAN!!

NSFW!

[The Gnoooome Ranger]

VRMH wrote:

Who'll be your Tonto?

Unfortunately leadership isn't allowed, so I don't get to have Tonto...

[The Gnoooome Ranger]

So I've fleshed out the character significantly and would appreciate any advice on what I'm doing wrong/ways to improve, and advice about feat choices (especially given the possibility of being a Gun Tank--which helps my AC and skills, but costs me a bonus feat):

The Gnome Ranger!
Gnome
Neutral Good
Common, Gnome, Sylvan, Draconic
Favored Class: Gunslinger

STR 8 (10-2 racial)
DEX 18 (18)
CON 14 (12+2 racial)
INT 12
WIS 13
CHA 9 (7+2 racial)

Eternal Hope: +2 sv vs Fear, Despair; 1/day reroll a 1 on a d20 (replaces defensive training and hatred)
Illusion Resistance:+2 sv vs Illusion spells & effects
Weapon Familiarity: Treat weapons w/ "Gnome" as martial
Low-light vision
Fell Magic: +1 DC necromancy spells that they cast. Wisdom scores of 11 or higher also : 1/day—bleed, chill touch, detect poison,

and touch of fatigue. CL = the gnome's level. DC = 10 + the spell's level + the gnome's Wisdom modifier. This replaces gnome magic.

Class levels & Abilities:
Lvl 1: Gunslinger (Pistolero) 1 OR (Pistolero/Gun Tank) 1
Proficiencies: Light Armor, All simple & Martial weapons, Exotic Wpn Prof. (One-handed firearms)
Gunsmithing; battered pistol (I believe I can take a medium pistol here and be at -2 to hit in order to have 1d8 damage instead

of 1d6)
Up Close and Deadly deed; Quick Clear Deed; Gunslinger’s Dodge deed OR Gun Tank’s Resolve deed (spend a grit point for light

fortification vs. a crit/sneak attack)

Lvl 2: Druid (Menhir Savant)
Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Shields (Not tower)
Nature Bond: Animal Companion (Roc) (Effective Druid Level 1)(Link & Share Spells)
Orisons; Level 1 Spells & Wand activation
Spirit Sense (Sp): detect the presence of undead; fey; outsiders; and astral, ethereal, or incorporeal creatures all at once at

will as if detect undead spell (This ability replaces nature sense and wild empathy.)

Lvl 3: Cavalier (Luring Cavalier) 1
Proficiencies: Heavy Armor
Mount: Effective Druid Level 2 (Roc improves, is my medium-sized mount)
Far Challenge: Swict Action->one target within sight: my ranged attacks do +(Cavalier Lvl) damage to that target, it gets +4 on

attack rolls against me, if it hits me with melee this becomes regular challenge
Tactician: bonus teamwork feat; Standard action grant it to all allies w/in 30 feet who can see & hear me for 3+(½ Cav Lvl)

rounds, usable once per day
Escape Route (Bonus Teamwork Feat): An ally who also has this feat provokes no AoO for moving through squares adjacent to you or

within your space. <I will later take +1 INT to my Roc and get it this feat (level 6) so that neither of us provoke AoOs from

movement while I'm mounted.>
Order: Order of the Sword (Edicts--be courageous vs. danger, merciful vs. wrongdoers, charitable to the poor & meek, be just &

honorable)
Challenge modification: +1 morale bonus to ATK against target of challenge while mounted <should be always>
Kn: Nobility and Religion as class skills, Sense Motive vs. opposed bluff gains +½ Cavalier lvl (min 1)

Lvl 4: Cavalier () 2 -- +1 to WISDOM (14 Wis--+1 Grit & +1 Will Save)
Order Ability: Select one alignment, as long as I keep that, I gain +2 morale bonus to 1 save. <Will saves +2!>

Lvl 5: Cavalier () 3
Careful Aim: When I make a ranged attack at highest BAB <I believe this would be the first attack in an iterative full attack at

6/1 BAB> ignore the range penalties up to three range increments, if using a firearm, can target touch AC up to two range

increments away. Stacks with other abilities that do the same. <e.g. Deadeye deed> This replaces cavalier’s charge.

Lvl 6: Cavalier () 4
Challenge 2/day
Skill Focus [Handle Animal] <replaces Expert Trainer>, still get ability to take Horse Master feat <mount counts as character

level not Cavalier level>

Lvl 7: Gunslinger () 2
Nimble +1 <useless as I'll be in medium/heavy armor> OR Bullet Deflection: ½ armor's AC to touch AC vs. guns & splash weapons

<if I'm a gun tank>

Lvl 8: Gunslinger () 3
Deeds:
Gunslinger Initiative: +2 Initiative if I have grit;
Pistol-whip: Use firearm as melee weapon as a standard action (1d4 'cause I'm a small creature)
Utility Shot: Meh.

Lvl 9: Gunslinger () 4
Bonus Feat (Combat or Grit feat) <if not Gun Tank> OR Armor Training 1 (Which, by this point will be +1 AC and -1 check penalty

for sure vs. my Dex) <if Gun Tank. This is a critical question for me--how badly do I need this feat (see below for feat

selection>

Lvl 10: Gunslinger () 5
+DEX bonus to damage from firearms, on a misfire, increase the misfire value by 2 instead of 4.

Lvl 11-12: ??? <Considering Fighter or more gunslinger or any good suggestion for a full BAB class/archetype (i.e.

barbarian/ranger. Paladin is out because I'm not Lawful Good & CHA is my dump stat anyway):
Fighter gets bonus combat feats. Might go for 11-12 as 2 levels in fighter for 2 bonus feats and bravery/archetype bonuses,

especially Weapon Master seems good
More gunslinger if the character ever plays in retirement arc stuff gets more deeds and more damage from the gun.
Ranger -- can get Mounted Archery at lvl 2 without Mounted Combat, but seems like Mounted Combat wouldn't be bad...

BAB & Saves Progression <including Ability scores, but not items that increase abilities>:
LVL....BAB....FORT....REF....WILL
1.........1.........4.........6........1
2.........1.........6.........6........3
3.........2.........8.........6........3
4.........3.........9.........6........6
5.........4.........9.........7........7
6.........5........10........7........7
7.......6/1......11........8........7
8.......7/2......11........8........8
9.......8/3......12........9........8
10.....9/4......12........9........8

Ftr @ 11&12
11....10/5......14........9........8
12...11/6/1....15........9........8

Gunslinger @ 11&12
11......10/5......13........10......9
12...11/6/1....13........10......9

Intended Feats by level (Not including things mentioned in class abilities):
1 Rapid Reload
3 Point-blank Shot
5 Precise Shot
7 Horse Master
9 Rapid Shot? Deadly Aim? Two-Weapon Fighting? Mounted Combat & Mounted Archery?
9* <Bonus feat for Gunslinger if NOT a Gun Tank; would choose one of the above 3>
11 ???
11* & 12? <Levels in fighter for more bonus feats?>

Any advice for optimization would be appreciated!

[Gondolin]

Your kidding right? Optimization? I couldn't come up with something as well thought as this if my friday night session depended on it....

The only thing I don't like is the gunslinger class and you even made THAT work! You big show-off. :-)

[kaisc006]

Gondolin wrote:

Your kidding right? Optimization? I couldn't come up with something as well thought as this if my friday night session depended on it....

The only thing I don't like is the gunslinger class and you even made THAT work! You big show-off. :-)

Cool concept but unfortunately not PFS legal. Cavalier's must function per RAW and the only mount a small cavalier may have is a pony/wolf or boar/dog if he's 4th level. I thought I remembered something about small characters being restricted to ponies because so many were running around on wolves to avoid space but couldn't find that. Using the rule "GM's may permit other mounts" won't work in society.

On a side note, mounted characters don't get to shine much due to the design of most PFS scenarios. But you could change your concept to totally cut out the druid and just go Cavalier 1/Gunslinger 5/Cavalier 4. You should try to make gunslinger level 5 ASAP for Dex to damage.

Also, Horse Master is more powerful than Boon Companion for a specific reason: It's restricted to the normal Cavalier mounts which are inferior to druid animal companions. As stated, in PFS GMs can't let you use an alternate but just a homegame warning if GMs were to let you use it with other animals the feat becomes broken.

[Gondolin]

Never sould understand the No-horse rule for small characters. For horse racing, the smaller the jockey the better. A lot of the power comes from the mount, so a pony or boar could be suitable but a wolf or dog can't cut the mustard imho.

[The Gnoooome Ranger]

I appreciate your feedback, though I'm fairly sure that the Roc is PFS legal as a mount:

Roc as gnome mount:

PRD wrote:

Unfortunately for druids seeking animal companions of legendary size, an animal companion roc is limited to Large size—still large enough for a Medium druid or ranger to use the flying beast as a mount.

link

and

PFS FAQ wrote:

As a paladin or cavalier, what mount can I have?

As a paladin, your divine bond mount must be at least one size category larger than you starting at 1st level. If you’re a Medium PC, your mount must be Large. If you’re a Small PC, your mount must be at least Medium. You may only select a mount from the listed mounts on page 63 of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook unless another source grants access to additional creature choices. As a cavalier, you may select a mount from those listed on page 33 of the Advanced Player's Guide. No additional mounts are legal in Pathfinder Society Organized Play except when granted from another legal source.

Italics mine.

1 Druid level grants Roc as an animal companion (legal source), gnomes are small so a medium creature is large enough to ride (and rocs are specifically called out as usable as mounts in the text), and finally:

PRD Cavalier wrote:

Mount (Ex) ... This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the cavalier's level as his effective druid level...

PRD Druid wrote:

Nature Bond (Ex) ... If a character receives an animal companion from more than one source, her effective druid levels stack for the purposes of determining the statistics and abilities of the companion...

I am still subject to the restrictions of BOTH classes (so if my mount dies, it takes a week to replace and it doesn't get the link, evasion, devotion, or improved evasion special abilities until the next time the cavalier gains a level. (per the cavalier mount rules)

Mostly what I was hoping for advice on is feat choices as a gunslinger (specifically since Gunslinging is my primary method of combat). I've never played a gunslinger so I'm not entirely sure what does and does not work well for them. (Many people say things along the lines of "So what if you're -8/-8 to attacks, you're targeting Touch AC!" but I wonder how well that works outside of theoretical math, especially at low levels, and at high levels I've got no idea what feats to take to keep relevant.)

Edit: Minor point on roc as mount

[kaisc006]

Hmm I guess it works :)

[Pharmalade]

I made a Mysterious Stranger, Luring Cavalier with a pony. The weapon of choice was the Pepperbox, and Charisma was 20 (dex lower, but still decent.)
Unfortunately the game fell through as the DM is moving. >_<
I'll probably rebuild him in the future.

[cnetarian]

two things to think of for gunslinging in play as opposed to theory:

1) misfires happen. far more often than you might think if you never played a gunslinger.

===> a 12 wis gunslinger will only have 1 grit point. 1 grit point which should never be spent because you need it to quick clear a misfire. it is a viable choice to make a 1 grit gunslinger but be aware of the limitation it puts on you, and that you cannot use grit deeds.

2) touch AC is only used for opponents within 20' for an early firearms pistol (10' for the funky pistols like the sword cane pistol). 20' is really, really close.

===> count on either a) not being able to attack touch AC or b) being in melee range of your opponents. It is nice when opponents are not in melee range and you can use touch AC but you cannot count on being able to be in that sweet spot, a smart DM will either force you to move into touch AC range and lose the full attack or eat AoOs from bad guys next to you.

a) means you need 2 weapon fighting if using 2 pistols, the -6/-10 is too big a loss to take to your hit rolls when attacking full AC. -4/-4 is bad enough and when you add in the range penalty you should seriously consider only using 1 pistol just for that reason if you are attacking more than 20' away.

b) makes deft shootist pretty much a mandatory feat*, but deft shootist requires the mobility feat which requires the dodge feat so you need 3 feats. also makes combat reflexes, snap shot & improved snap shot powerful feats.

*with what you are building you could go with mounted combat => trick riding => mounted skirmisher and have your mount move you into touch AC/out of AoO range to the sweet spot before taking a full attack action. this is probably superior for this build but I haven't seen anything like this in action so it's only theory, there may be problems I'm missing.

[Pharmalade]

cnetarian wrote:

*with what you are building you could go with mounted combat => trick riding => mounted skirmisher and have your mount move you into touch AC/out of AoO range to the sweet spot before taking a full attack action. this is probably superior for this build but I haven't seen anything like this in action so it's only theory, there may be problems I'm missing.

One of the fun things about mounted combat with ranged attacks is the fact that you can full attack while mounted if you are using a ranged weapon. No spare feats required. You do take penalties for doing so, which can be reduced with Mounted Combat -> Mounted Archery or by taking the Samurai archetype/alt. class (although that version precludes taking the Horse Master feat.)

You can run circles around your opponent, making sure the midpoint of your distance traveled is where your foe is. If that is within touch AC distance, you're sitting (riding) pretty, and it's quite difficult to get you off the horse/pony/other. (Short of trying to kill the mount, and you could have Mounted Combat to negate it.)

It's not light on feats, unfortunately.

[Black_Lantern]

This build is interesting to say the least, however I would say it's not going to perform well. It seems as if half of the DM's I know either target your mount quite often or use aoe spells. Because of this a lot of your character concept is going to go down the drain quite quick. You also probably shouldn't dip as many druid and cavalier levels as you have. Get horse master and get out.

[cnetarian]

Pharmalade wrote:

One of the fun things about mounted combat with ranged attacks is the fact that you can full attack while mounted if you are using a ranged weapon. No spare feats required. You do take penalties for doing so, which can be reduced with Mounted Combat -> Mounted Archery or by taking the Samurai archetype/alt. class (although that version precludes taking the Horse Master feat.)

You can run circles around your opponent, making sure the midpoint of your distance traveled is where your foe is. If that is within touch AC distance, you're sitting (riding) pretty, and it's quite difficult to get you off the horse/pony/other. (Short of trying to kill the mount, and you could have Mounted Combat to negate it.)

It's not light on feats, unfortunately.

right, forgot about that, like I said never seen a mounted gunslinger in action. It might be great, and not needing skirmisher sounds even better. a good way to get around the range problem and get touch attacks. sounds good and I wonder how well it works in an actual game, any experience with it? mostly I'm wondering if a mounted gunslinger can actually hit even touch AC with all the penalties stacked.