http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/unhallow
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deeper-darkness
So my party is about to encounter a cult of Norgorber and raid their temple. I'm trying to plan something nasty and memorable for the final encounter, and came across the unhallow spell, which allows you to key another spell to it that only affects people of a different faith. I'm thinking of using the deeper darkness spell, but I'm not sure if this should work the way I think it will.
The final chamber will be lighted only with candles, meaning it will be low-light naturally, and deeper darkness will reduce it to magical darkness...but for whom? Will the deeper darkness only affect the PCs, whilst the cult's members ignore the effects of the deeper darkness?
From what i can gather from reading the spells themselves, it would appear that the lighting would be as follows.
Cult Members: Low-Light. (perhaps use a cult of a single race that all have Low-Light vision to further benefit from this lighting situation)
PCs of a different faith: Magical Darkness. possibly countered by a heightened Continual Flame torch or a Daylight spell.
so long story short, yes it works as you believed it would.
Deeper Darkness works exactly like that. Welcome to the lighting war.
For real fun: try the Dark Stalker when you want a lighting war.
A wand of Daylight can be highly valuable in such a case.
- Gauss
Due to multiclassing, the party's highest level spellcaster is an 8th level bard, and they do not have access to spells above 4th level. The enemy's high cleric is an elven cleric9/rogue1 who's well-prepared, and will have at least two half-elven/elven cleric3/rogue3 lackeys with him, along with a couple of summoned magaavs.
The plan is for the high cleric to use a scroll of stone shape to seal the entrance to the chamber once the party enters. The unhallow effect will be temporarily blocked by an inverted stone bowl that blocks the line of effect of the unhallow spell's point of origin, but as soon as the stone shape spell is cast, one of the invisible cleric lackeys (trickery domain) will remove the bowl and allow the unhallow effect to cover the entire chamber. From there, it's welcome to sneak-attack-central.
I'm just a little worried though about whether this will be too rude for the PCs to handle. XD
No problem, the bard should have Dispel magic. Level 8 bard can knock out a level 9 cleric spell with a decent roll.
Alternately, give them a one shot magic item of daylight somewhere along the way (Oil of Daylight).
- Gauss
Unfortunately for the group, the bard does not have dispel magic. XD
His 3rd level spells are haste, arcane accompaniment (essentially extra bardic-music rounds) and confusion.
Hmm...as for the oil of daylight, I'm not sure I want to just hand the PCs the solution to the ambush. It kinda defeats the purpose of designing the nasty ambush in the first place. I want a memorable, difficult battle, whilst avoiding a TPK.
Then do not block the doorway. Let them back out of the darkness (DC10 acrobatics to move full speed).
- Gauss
Oh, alternately: If one player can get a cloak over the bowl it will block the darkness. Make a point of describing the source of the darkness before they are blinded.
- Gauss
Oh, alternately: If one player can get a cloak over the bowl it will block the darkness. Make a point of describing the source of the darkness before they are blinded.
- Gauss
Blocking the exit is very much in-keeping with the story, since the hideout is supposed to be secret-it's entirely possible that the group will not know that they're stomping a cult of Norgorber right up till the end. At the same time, the cult suspects that the PCs are coming, and are determined to not let them leave alive.
I've thought of the idea of letting the PCs battle for control over the point of origin of the unhallow emanation though. They will have a few options for blocking it, though they will need to exercise creativity. =)
One note: I would also remove the invisibilty on the lackey. That way itll be more obvious where the darkness is coming from. Since the lackey will be in darkness afterwards anyhow he will be effectively invisible. (Readied action will fix anyone trying to take him out first.)
- Gauss
Hmm...what I want to achieve though is making sure the entire party is in the chamber before the trap is sprung. However, the stone bowl covering the emanation's point of origin will be visible before removal, and the party has pretty good perception, so I will probably have them roll perception to notice the bowl being removed from the pedestal it is on a split second before the entrance is sealed shut and the room is plunged in darkness.
The entire enemy group would be either invisible or under the high cleric's "master's illusion" domain ability.
I'm curious, however, about how the glitterdust spell would operate under deeper darkness. The party's bard has this spell, and since it is not a light spell, I'm guessing it would not be suppressed by the deeper darkness spell.
Glitterdust is an AoE spell, and you can toss it into an area blindly as long as you have line of effect.
Still wondering about giving the PCs some tools for handling the encounter. Not a high-level light spell to directly counter it, but maybe something that can be used creatively, like a scroll of wall of ice.
Any suggestions?
Everyone would also be blind if the Glitterdust succesfully blinds the enemies... Apart from that I agree. The "light effect" of Glitterdust would be supressed by the Deeper Darkness.
LOL Setzer, that is an interesting option. If nothing else, it would buy them some time to find another solution.
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I don't think this works, because Darkness spells affect light, not people. If the light is magically suppressed, there just isn't any light, for anyone.
If you want to use Unhallow, you need a spell that affects people directly. You could have a Wall of Fire that the believers can pass through without getting burnt, and then have them run around the battlefield being all annoying with it.
Alternatively, you can put Darkvision on the believers and a Darkness spell.
The arcane sight idea is interesting! Since the enemies will be either summoned or buffed, arcane sight would work as an innovative counter. I like it. =)
I also took a second look at stone shape, and decided to just have the high cleric use a scroll of wall of stone instead. Either way, it's a 5th level spell scroll. XD
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
That, unfortunately, depends on interpretive reading. "another faith or alignment" isn't actually very good wording. You can read this to mean that if they are "of...http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/u/unhallow
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deeper-darkness
So my party is about to encounter a cult of Norgorber and raid their temple. I'm trying to plan something nasty and memorable for the final encounter, and came across the unhallow spell, which allows you to key another spell to it that only affects people of a different faith. I'm thinking of using the deeper darkness spell, but I'm not sure if this should work the way I think it will.
The final chamber will be lighted only with candles, meaning it will be low-light naturally, and deeper darkness will reduce it to magical darkness...but for whom? Will the deeper darkness only affect the PCs, whilst the cult's members ignore the effects of the deeper darkness?
Based on the PRD:
"Finally, you may choose to fix a single spell effect to the unhallowed site. The spell effect lasts for 1 year and functions throughout the entire site, regardless of its normal duration and area or effect. You may designate whether the effect applies to all creatures, creatures that share your faith or alignment, or creatures that adhere to another faith or alignment."So, RAW, you cannot tune the unhallow effect so that it "only affects people of a different faith". That is not an option for unhallow. See bolded and italic above. If you wanted to only affect the PCs with the deeper darkness you would have to tune it to a specific faith or alignment that all the PCs share (assuming there is one). Typically unhallow is used to benefit followers of a certain faith or harm everyone. If the party is all good or all lawful or all followers of Pharasma then you should be OK, but if your party is a mix of faiths and alignments you’ll have to choose one that affects most of them.
The spell would be less useful if you had to know a year in advance who would be raiding your temple to cast a spell to effect everyone who would come to raid your temple.
All who do not share my faith is a perfectly valid use of unhallow.
I don't think that inverted bowl trick works. Once it is cast it permiates the whole site.
The arcane sight idea is interesting! Since the enemies will be either summoned or buffed, arcane sight would work as an innovative counter. I like it. =)
I also took a second look at stone shape, and decided to just have the high cleric use a scroll of wall of stone instead. Either way, it's a 5th level spell scroll. XD
I am not sure arcane sight would work, The wording uses the word see, indicating your need to be able to see. As you could not see in Magical darkness in this situation it would be doubtful if it would work.
Even if it did you had better be prepared for a DM nightmare keeping track of all the auras in the room, where they are and who has them which is strongest what school etc.magical auras within 120 feet of you. The effect is similar to
that of a detect magic spell, but arcane sight does not require
concentration and discerns aura location and power more quickly.
You know the location and power of all magical auras within
your sight. An aura’s power depends on a spell’s functioning level
or an item’s caster level, as noted in the description of the detect
magic spell. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of
sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school
of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell
level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)
If you concentrate on a specific creature within 120 feet of you as
a standard action, you can determine whether it has any spellcasting
or spell-like abilities, whether these are arcane or divine (spell-like
abilities register as arcane), and the strength of the most powerful
spell or spell-like ability the creature currently has available for use.
I don't think that inverted bowl trick works. Once it is cast it permiates the whole site.
My understanding is that emanations function like a constant burst originating from a point or object. In the case of unhallow, it originates from a fixed point. Anything capable of interfering with a burst would interfere with the emanation.
You can read this to mean that if they are "of another faith or alignment from yours" or you can try to interpret it the way you are, by requiring it to be "another specific faith or alignment". I think, since it doesn't call out that it is another specific faith or alignment, anyone is well within their rights to rule that it is the former rather than the latter... and I would myself.
I'd second that reading. After all, there is at least one official (though pretty old) AP adventure done by a Paizonian where an Unhallow effect specifically affects all those those of other faiths than the caster... or was the spell changed from 3.5? (I cannot access d20srd from work)
The adventure in question is
You can read this to mean that if they are "of another faith or alignment from yours" or you can try to interpret it the way you are, by requiring it to be "another specific faith or alignment". I think, since it doesn't call out that it is another specific faith or alignment, anyone is well within their rights to rule that it is the former rather than the latter... and I would myself.I'd second that reading. After all, there is at least one official (though pretty old) AP adventure done by a Paizonian where an Unhallow effect specifically affects all those those of other faiths than the caster... or was the spell changed from 3.5? (I cannot access d20srd from work)
The adventure in question is ** spoiler omitted **
major effects.
First, the site or structure is guarded by
a magic circle against good effect.
Second, all turning checks made to turn
undead take a –4 penalty, and turning
checks to rebuke undead gain a +4 profane
bonus. Spell resistance does not apply to
this effect. (This provision does not apply
to the druid version of the spell.)
Finally, you may choose to fix a single
spell effect to the unhallowed site. The spell
effect lasts for one year and functions
throughout the entire site, regardless of its
normal duration and area or effect. You
may designate whether the effect applies
to all creatures, creatures that share your
faith or alignment, or creatures that adhere
to another faith or alignment. For example,
you may create a bless effect that aids all
creatures of like alignment or faith in the
area, or a bane effect that hinders creatures
of the opposite alignment or an enemy
faith. At the end of the year, the chosen
effect lapses, but it can be renewed or
replaced simply by casting unhallow again.
Spell effects that may be tied to an
unhallowed site include aid, bane, bless, cause
fear, darkness, daylight, death ward, deeper
darkness, detect magic, detect good, dimensional
anchor, discern lies, dispel magic, endure
elements, freedom of movement, invisibility
purge, protection from energy, remove fear,
resist energy, silence, tongues, and zone of truth.
Saving throws and spell resistance might
apply to these spells’ effects. (See the individual
spell descriptions for details.)
It occurred to me that the party's paladin has both a heavy pick and a adamantine longsword, either of which could be used to smash a hole in the wall. Since the temple is a windowless stone building, he could conceivably attempt to break a hole in the wall to light up the chamber (assuming the PCs attack in the day-time). Whilst it would not remove the darkness, a successful breach should be enough to increase the natural illumination enough for the characters with darkvision to see (and if they are close enough to the breach in the wall, characters with low-light vision may be able to see too).
I reckon there are enough solutions that I could propose for the PCs. I reckon I'll drop a scroll of deeper darkness and arcane sight in the preceding encounter, then see what they come up with when they reach the temple.
Would you guys consider an adamantine longsword an "ineffective weapon" against a stone wall?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/damaging-objects
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/vision-and-light
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/deeper-darkness
Actually, the deeper darkness spell works by reducing illumination by 2 steps AND suppressing magical light of a lower level.
The reason the area is only lit by candles is because the high cleric is an elf, and he knows that the party's bard and druid both have darkvision, so dim light would be reduced to "supernaturally dark", thus nullifying their darkvision whilst allowing the high cleric and his lackeys to see without penalty. The Magaavs are naturally unaffected by magical darkness, so they're fine too.
Breaking a hole in the wall would cause natural sunlight to enter the chamber, causing the areas near the hole to have "bright light" and most of the room to have "normal light".
As for the longsword, I reckon I'll have the heavy pick do normal damage and the adamantine longsword do half damage but bypass the wall's 8 hardness.
Actually, the darkness-unhallow effect was designed to be a fail-safe against prying eyes. Anyone trying to discover the true nature of the upper level of the building would see only darkness (unless they were a worshipper of Norgorber anyway). However, the high cleric now knows that the PCs are coming, and is preparing an ambush for them. It's a response to the PCs' lack of caution and subtlety in their investigations.
The building itself is really just a shop-house in Abadar, except that the entire top-level has been converted into a secret temple, and all the windows were walled up, with the only entrance being a flight of stairs at the back of the shop. The PCs' investigations are leading them to the shophouse, and the high cleric knows that, but the PCs actually think they're up against the Red Mantis. XD
Fun fact about the Darkness line of spells: It also suppresses mundane lights.
This spell causes an object to radiate darkness out to a 20-foot radius. This darkness causes the illumination level in the area to drop one step, from bright light to normal light, from normal light to dim light, or from dim light to darkness. This spell has no effect in an area that is already dark. Creatures with light vulnerability or sensitivity take no penalties in normal light. All creatures gain concealment (20% miss chance) in dim light. All creatures gain total concealment (50% miss chance) in darkness. Creatures with darkvision can see in an area of dim light or darkness without penalty. Nonmagical sources of light, such as torches and lanterns, do not increase the light level in an area of darkness. Magical light sources only increase the light level in an area if they are of a higher spell level than darkness.
You can have a pile of sunrods in the room, but the room's natural light level starts out as "darkness" and drops to "supernatural darkness." As far as I understand, only sunlight or magic can raise the light level in deeper darkness.
Keep in mind, that if you use candles, they only light their square with normal light for low-light vision characters. Even an elf would have a 20% miss chance against a target standing withing 5ft of a candle.
I actually just thought of something... scroll in the dark... a little bit harsh eh? Maybe a wand or a single use item instead?
XD Good call. I might drop the scrolls in there anyway, just for trolling. =p
Knight Magenta: The candles would not provide normal light to low-light vision characters. It would provide dim light, which does not penalise characters with low-light vision. However, dim light would still be reduced to supernatural darkness, whilst normal light would be reduced to 'regular' darkness (a distinction which really only affects characters with darkvision).
Thanks for pointing out the proviso about nonmagical sources of light, though it raises an interesting point: isn't the *SUN* a nonmagical source of light as well? O_o So if it suppresses all non-magical sources and magical sources of a lower level, doesn't it effectively create supernatural darkness regardless of circumstances until a higher-level light spell counters it?
I don't think that the sun "counts" as a light source. I always read daytime as simply being being bright light. Also, if Deeper Darkness was only ever overcome by magic, it would just say "makes supernatural darkness" instead of telling us how many steps it reduces.
About candles: I meant that a candle only sheds dim light in its 5ft square. low-light vision characters would only see normally in that square. within 5ft of the candle, humans would see darkness and elves would have a 20% miss chance.
About scrolls: I don't see why a mage can't activate a scroll in darkness. I've always thought of activating scrolls more as activating a magic item, not so much as reading a book. Realistically, three seconds is not enough time to read anything. If the mage does need to read something, its not a stretch that he can memorize the 3 seconds of words. The other evidence for this is that you have to decipher a scroll over several rounds. This implies it's complex enough to not be readable in a single action.
Then again, if you think of the sun as a magical source of light...what would the 'spell level' of the sun's light be? Hmm...if the sun casts "daylight" on every patch of Golarion within line of effect, would darkness and deeper darkness only ever work indoors? XD
More importantly, Mage's Disjunction can destroy artifacts. The most powerful type of magic item is an artifact. The sun is either an artifact or a spell effect.
Interplanetary Teleport can get you within 30 ft of the sun. Contingency (triggered when you are instantly burned to a crisp) can cast Disjunction on the Sun.
Since you are surely a lich, 1d10 days later, you awaken none the worse for your instantaneous incineration. If the sun is shining, repeat. Otherwise, you can laugh as all the mortals die of cold.