No, there are some Ogres, Ogrekin, and Trolls with Charisma that low.
No, there are not. Unless my search function with which I just skimmed the three Bestiary PDFs works wrong.
Besides, there are straight humans with 4 intelligence, so not that much of a stretch.
I thought we are talking about charisma?
Besides, anyone who chooses to be an adventurer, is a little bit crazy, or otherwise a bit of an oddball.
Your character has the force of personality / temperament of an savage animal or a non-sentient plant. Only more intelligent. Think on that when deciding on how to play him. The only thing below your charisma are more animals, oozes, vermin and golems.
Which just turned out incredibly well in the department of giving you extra points. Purely by accident.
Anyway, this is getting into a min-max discussion, which I wasn't really trying to kick off. I was just trying to point out that you can expect some CHA ability damage coming your way, if your GM is playing his game right.
Confronting your weaknesses is an essential part of the game. Melee fighters encounter ranged combat. Ranged fighters encounter fast melee stuff. Spellcasters encounter spell resistance. And that's just in broad, general terms.
Should your character suffer no penalties from 3 Charisma, and in fact gain only bonuses from having it so low (i.e. stat replacement from inquisitor, points benefit toward other stats)?
Play him like a wisdom based Sheldon Cooper. He's an ass, but you know it's not intentional, so that sort of makes it ok most of the time.
Since charisma in pathfinder is tied up with attractiveness and personal charm among other things, it's all too easy to make the jump that a low charisma score equates to ugliness, etc. This is not the case.
Charisma is the ability to influence your environment and the people that exist within it. Beautiful and ugly, charming and revolting all have a strong potential to influence. Wether the influence is positive or negative is irrelevant.
A low charisma character is probably best represented as a being totally forgettable; a face in the crowd. Someone that lacks the ability to create either a positive or negative impression in ones mind. That's what low charisma is all about.
Pathfinder has taken this one step further by establishing a link between charisma and "life-force" which they seem to define as one's self determination to exist. Sorry, willpower was taken :). The implication is that a 3 charisma character has a very weak willingness to keep living. Strong opinions, strong emotions, desire, ambition and even a meaningful reason to live would be totally absent from such a character aside from eating and fornicating. So I guess that's something.
A 3 charisma character has 1 point more charisma than most critters. That means you have 50% more capacity to influence a person in conversation than does a mouse. Since mice can't talk, that a pretty rough place for an inquisitor unless you're trying to convert a cat.
The last problem is that before your character was able to substitute wisdom for charisma he had to get the job! A person without strong convictions, no ambition and lacking the ability to care might have a real hard time getting to the interview, let alone presenting enough personality to even be considered a candidate.
If your gm is cool with this than you're golden!
Anyone notice how really horrifying, scary, and horrendously ugly monsters often have high Charisma scores? That's a big part of what makes them so damned crazy, that palpable persona or horror.
Playing it as a cold, emotionless Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother seems possibly fitting.
What do you think?
It's probably the best fit for the mechanical elements, but such a character would have to be driven by something. A Reverend Mother (or similar personality-type) has some sort of goal or ideal in mind compared to which all other priorities are secondary, and all other considerations must yield.
A stutter or other speech impediment could be a reason for a low cha. General social arkwardness could work to, just take it to 11. Don't look people in the eyes or give everyone a non-blinking stare. Have a annoying voice or really bad volume control. Bad habits like constant figiting or loving to eat onions.
I think a combination of things would be the best way to role-play his low charisma
|
It's probably the best fit for the mechanical elements, but such a character would have to be driven by something. A Reverend Mother (or similar personality-type) has some sort of goal or ideal in mind compared to which all other priorities are secondary, and all other considerations must yield.Playing it as a cold, emotionless Bene Gesserit Reverend Mother seems possibly fitting.
What do you think?
Well, that is in line with Inquisitor. As a Heretic Inquisitor of Irori, I can see finding the secret of Irori's rise to godhood as a major drive.
Not sure if it's been said (skipped to the end) have you looked at the eunuch in Game of Thrones... now mash him up with the dog.
Sandor is a bad match, as he's actually a very emotional character. More like Gregor, his brother, would be appropriate. (the guy who cuts the horse's head off in the first season.)
But good luck playing a character who basically has as close to no "humanity" (yeah yeah, you're a Dwarf) as possible. I house-rule no one can go below a 7, after racials, for a reason!
Well, Duergar, that's a -4 to charisma, so that would require an 11 prior to adjustments, and with a 15 point buy, there is very little wiggle room.
Which is probably why there are so few (none so far) Duergar adventurers in core race adventuring parties. There would be even fewer minimum charisma party members. Who would train such a revolting creature? Who would hang around them long enough to listen to their wisdom?
Remember that low charisma is NOT socially neutral and forgettable (that would be CHR 10). CHR 3 would be activrly disliked, probably from birth, even by its own race.
Wait....you'll be wearing a stillsuit? So, this is a campaign set in the deep desert. How are you going to overcome the light sensitivity all duergar suffer from? Forgive the impertenence but it is becoming increasingly difficult to see this thread as anything more than justification for min-maxing and I don't really believe that is your intention.
Anyway, as to your original question-how to roleplay such a character-
I think pathfinder can point us in the right direction. Duergar are described as evil, foul-tempered slavers who put non-dwarven captives to death.
Inquisitors will very likely be exemplars of their faith similar to a paladin. Perhaps even moreso in the case of conversion inquisitors. Use your gods description as a platform for your personality. I don''t know anything about the duergar pantheon, but I imagine it's filled with evil, aggressive, dominanting and merciless figures.
Lastly, your inquisition specific granted power describes your argumentation as coming directly from your divine source. So, your charisma and personality are totally irrelevant because your god essentialy speaks directly through you when using the three associated skills. The specifial effect can be whatever you like, such as a divine flash of insight or divine possesion, etc.
This brings up an interesting point. Your character could in fact be a high function autistic person, which would be my preference in playing such a character. You could be essentially an empty vessel for your gods divine will. You exist to serve in this capacity and a perfect servant in this.
You'll be able to use your divine social skills when needed, but at other times you simply are incapable verbal interaction. This would solve a few problems for your gm while opening a ton of rp and story opportunities.
Of course autistic people can and do interact, but these interactions
Edit: posting on the wrong account. I'm Toccata, the poster above.
Wait....you'll be wearing a stillsuit? So, this is a campaign set in the deep desert. How are you going to overcome the light sensitivity all duergar suffer from? Forgive the impertenence but it is becoming increasingly difficult to see this thread as anything more than justification for min-maxing and I don't really believe that is your intention.
Anyway, as to your original question-how to roleplay such a character-
I think pathfinder can point us in the right direction. Duergar are described as evil, foul-tempered slavers who put non-dwarven captives to death.
Inquisitors will very likely be exemplars of their faith similar to a paladin. Perhaps even moreso in the case of conversion inquisitors. Use your gods description as a platform for your personality. I don''t know anything about the duergar pantheon, but I imagine it's filled with evil, aggressive, dominanting and merciless figures.
Lastly, your inquisition specific granted power describes your argumentation as coming directly from your divine source. So, your charisma and personality are totally irrelevant because your god essentialy speaks directly through you when using the three associated skills. The specifial effect can be whatever you like, such as a divine flash of insight or divine possesion, etc.
This brings up an interesting point. Your character could in fact be a high function autistic person, which would be my preference in playing such a character. You could be essentially an empty vessel for your gods divine will. You exist to serve in this capacity and a perfect servant in this.
You'll be able to use your divine social skills when needed, but at other times you simply are incapable verbal interaction. This would solve a few problems for your gm while opening a ton of rp and story opportunities.
Of course autistic people can and do interact, but these interactions are often unpredictable.
I must say that I find this concept to offer a unique challenge and might be a really fascinating way to stretch your rp skills
I hope this helps :)
Second edit: I don't mean to suggest that autistic people are empty vessels. This is merely a way to help an rp scenario.
|
|
I took the Two World Magic trait to get the Penumbra cantrip, which will deal with any light sensitivity issues.
Also, there is one Duergar god, Droskar, but I am a worshiper of Irori.
Oh, and is there anything I can do to stop the powergamer/min-maxer comments?
I am still unsure what they accomplish.
is there anything I can do to stop the powergamer/min-maxer comments?
Raise your Charisma to 4?
It's just a hot-button topic for some people, alas.
I took the Two World Magic trait to get the Penumbra cantrip, which will deal with any light sensitivity issues.
Also, there is one Duergar god, Droskar, but I am a worshiper of Irori.
Oh, and is there anything I can do to stop the powergamer/min-maxer comments?
I am still unsure what they accomplish.
Penumbra is a wizard/sorc cantrip and has a 10 minute duration. I didn't know inquisitors could cast those.
Reaping all the benefits and none of the consequence of an imbalanced character design is what min maxing is all about. The comments will probably continue until your character no longer relies on possible exploits.
Anyway, if your gm is cool with all this than it's not an issue. If you are the gm, you can run your campaign however you like.
Oh, and is there anything I can do to stop the powergamer/min-maxer comments?
I am still unsure what they accomplish.
How about not objecting to the idea that the GM might at some point actually make that 3 Charisma affect you negatively in some way in the game? Nobody even mentioned powergaming until you acted betrayed at the very thought that CHA poisons might be used against you and said that actually making you suffer for your weakness was unfairly picking on you.
Dumping a stat is one thing. Dumping a stat and then getting around a lot of the usual penalties for dumping that stat is another thing. Dumping a stat, circumventing the usual penalties for dumping that stat, and acting like it's unfair to ever encounter any penalties for dumping that stat? That's where you unambiguously enter problem territory.
Not to be Mr. Disagreeable here, I would say that Alia actually has a pretty high charisma, not wisdom. Most likely a sorcerer considering how she got her powers. I mean her basic downfall is that she failed her will save. :PAlia lacked any kind of deep personal identity, as she calls upon the combined ego and memories of all her female ancestors to form a personality, which she was born with, and had no real chance to develop her own. To me, that utter lack of personal identity marks her as a low charisma person, with a supernatural ability to manipulate others.
Besides, even the highest Will save PC, fails one, once in a while.
I always thought that Alia came across mechanically as a cross blooded sorcerer.
Alia was always good at projecting power and force, she just had no insight or sense of self in which to hang her identity.
Of course, now this is just nerd arguing, so I will say that Alia as an inspiration for the character should be fine.
How about not objecting to the idea that the GM might at some point actually make that 3 Charisma affect you negatively in some way in the game? Nobody even mentioned powergaming until you acted betrayed at the very thought that CHA poisons might be used against you and said that actually making you suffer for your weakness was unfairly picking on you.
Dumping a stat is one thing. Dumping a stat and then getting around a lot of the usual penalties for dumping that stat is another thing. Dumping a stat, circumventing the usual penalties for dumping that stat, and acting like it's unfair to ever encounter any penalties for dumping that stat? That's where you unambiguously enter problem territory.
Exactly. Every GM worth his salt will look at that character sheet and go "Hmmmm....".
|
|
Well, it would be no exact copy, in any sense.
The idea of a personality that is a cross between Alia Atreides and GLaDOS, is a base I can work with, as I am familiar with both characters, but this is not set in stone.
I will most likely add more variation.
So, with some of the help here, I have begun to build a personality, and history starting point. Here it is:
My DM has given the okay to born of two Dwarves.
The idea being born "blessed" by Droskar, or Duerdam(dwarven for graydaughter).
As Irori is a popular god of surface dwarves, it is likely the PC was introduced to the religion early on. Perhaps pushed even more so, due to the fear of the child's abilities, and their origin.
With as much personality as an octopus, it was only through rigorous training, and the power of faith, that allowed her to become the social beast she has become.
She remained cold, an emotionless stone, but her words, fueled by divine forces, swayed all those around her, as if they were listening to an old friend.
Her waxen appearance gave her many troubles as a youth, but as her powers persuasion came to light, she used it as an advantage, and even her greatest lies, were seen as truth. As the church saw her mastery of self, as a true devotion to Irori, they grew wary of her empowerment, and she was cast out, with accusations of being possessed by Droskar himself, speaking through her with his voice, rather than her own.
After being cast out, with the accusations of Droskar's possession, she came to believe the two gods were once one and the same, and as such, she is filled with the seed of her god. She now seeks to awaken the divinity within, to once again unite the halves of the god, into one being, with herself as the channel.
Oh, and is there anything I can do to stop the powergamer/min-maxer comments?
I am still unsure what they accomplish.
Probably not. Your Charisma is going to be so low that it's going to be beyond hard to justify having any personality at all. People in real life with that kind of charisma are probably hospitalized because they can't function well enough.
That's not something that you can just roleplay your way through, but it did get you extra points for your (insert prefered stat here). Which is why it looks like Min/maxing.
Looks good. With low Charisma and high Wisdom it would make sense to take much of what happens to you as a given. I imagine she doesn't even feel vengeful against her Dwarven clan or stronghold. Nothing is ever personal.
For a possible upcoming Jade Regent game, I am building a Duergar Heretic Inquisitor with the Conversion Inquisition.
I will have a 10 Intelligence, 20 Wisdom, and 3 Charisma.
My Bluff +14, Diplomacy +8, and Intimidate +9. These will increase greatly.My question is:
How do you roleplay a character with such dismal charisma, and yet great social skills?
Your character is Grima Wormtongue. He is the ugly, whispering voice in the ear of power and while newcomers to the court might at first recoil, taken aback by the unsightly advisor, as they get to know him they too will fall under his sway.
P.S.: Beware wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.
Well, it would be no exact copy, in any sense.
The idea of a personality that is a cross between Alia Atreides and GLaDOS, is a base I can work with, as I am familiar with both characters, but this is not set in stone.
I will most likely add more variation.
So, with some of the help here, I have begun to build a personality, and history starting point. Here it is:My DM has given the okay to born of two Dwarves.
The idea being born "blessed" by Droskar, or Duerdam(dwarven for graydaughter).
As Irori is a popular god of surface dwarves, it is likely the PC was introduced to the religion early on. Perhaps pushed even more so, due to the fear of the child's abilities, and their origin.
With as much personality as an octopus, it was only through rigorous training, and the power of faith, that allowed her to become the social beast she has become.
She remained cold, an emotionless stone, but her words, fueled by divine forces, swayed all those around her, as if they were listening to an old friend.
Her waxen appearance gave her many troubles as a youth, but as her powers persuasion came to light, she used it as an advantage, and even her greatest lies, were seen as truth. As the church saw her mastery of self, as a true devotion to Irori, they grew wary of her empowerment, and she was cast out, with accusations of being possessed by Droskar himself, speaking through her with his voice, rather than her own.
After being cast out, with the accusations of Droskar's possession, she came to believe the two gods were once one and the same, and as such, she is filled with the seed of her god. She now seeks to awaken the divinity within, to once again unite the halves of the god, into one being, with herself as the channel.
I think GLaDOS nails what you are going for pretty firmly on the head.
|
|
So, I have an updated backstory. Yes, I realize there is some stolen content. Here it is:
Born "blessed" by Droskar, or Duerdam(dwarven for graydaughter), Badra's wealthy Slave Trader parents were shocked at the suprising birth.
Both parents devout worshipers of Irori, Badra was introduced to the religion early on. Called an Abomination by their fellow dwarves, her parents pushed her even more so to worship, due to the fear of the child's abilities, and their origin. As such, she was sent to the Monastery of Tar Kuata, to study under the monks of Irori.
Before she was even two, a flush of memories engulfed her mind, and the thoughts and personalities of her ancient Dwarven ancestors took hold, and it was only through rigorous training, and the power of faith, that allowed her to gain control of the personalties. It was later that the personalties revealed themselves as the first of those to accept the Dark Smith's blessing, though this fact was kept secret by Badra. Through the years, she learned to access individual personalites, and allow her to display them in a controlled manner, but denying her the time to develop her own distinct personal identity. Her waxen appearance, and cold demeanor gave her many troubles as a youth, but as her powers persuasion came to light, she used it as an advantage, and even her greatest lies, were seen as truth. As the church saw her mastery of self, as a true devotion to Irori, they grew wary of her empowerment, and she was cast out, with accusations of being possessed by Droskar himself, speaking through her with his voice, rather than her own. After being cast out, with the accusations of Droskar's possession, she came to believe the two gods were once one and the same, and as such, she is filled with the seed of her god. She now seeks to awaken the divinity within, to once again unite the halves of the god, into one being, with herself as the channel. She remained cold, an emotionless stone, but her words, fueled by divine forces, swayed all those around her, as if they were listening to an old friend. She now travels to Solku, to visit the Archive of Eminent Tomes, for secrets to the connection of Irori and Droskar.
What do you think?
|
Penumbra is a wizard/sorc cantrip and has a 10 minute duration. I didn't know inquisitors could cast those.
Blackbloodtroll is taking this trait, so protective penumbra will be on the 0-level inquisitor spell list. (It looks like it can be neutralized with a light counterspell, though - if an NPC is willing to spend their actions doing that.)
It's an interesting concept! I don't have a great grasp of the interplay between the mental stats but it does seem like she is both uncharismatic and wise.
Palpatine.
One thing people seem to ignore is the inquisitors ability to use wisdom in place of charisma for some social skills is a because of divine ability granted to you by your deity. I see this as acting as the mouthpiece of your deity. It also only affects specific skills which means that you can turn on the charm like nothing else, not that you are charming. Roleplay this as you would any other low charisma character except when you are actively using the relevant skill. Be rude and crude until you want to persuade the guard to let you pass, and then whatever you say seems to sound reasonable.
Depending on your opinion of what charisma actually is, Grima Wormtongue could be an example. He was quite repulsive, in both appearance and personality, but very effective with his words. Perhaps charisma skills were improved by Saruman though.