Did Vic's comment have anything to do with my comment? Nope.
Your comment didn't really seem really noteworthy, to be brutally honest. Neither was it very constructive.
Nor was the majority of the "No Politics" rule-breaking discussion.
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Paizo creates our Pathfinder products for ages 13 and up, and our licensees are expected to do the same. (Licensees can adjust that slightly as appropriate for their industry where needed—for example, WizKids has requirements that cause Pathfinder Battles minis to be labeled "Ages 14+", while Dynamite's Pathfinder comics are labeled "T+"). Even our open Pathfinder Compatibility License carries an adult-content clause: "You may not use this License for products that the general public would classify as 'adult content,' offensive, or inappropriate for minors."
This is not going to change.
Why not? I get that Paizo might not think it profitable to put such a book out themselves but the BoEF only caused an uproar within the community (and mostly over the backtracking on the d20 license rather than the content). Would having a book that talks about sexual content really be detrimental to the compatibility license? And why would sexual content (let's be honest that's what this is about) be banned but things like Hook Mountain Massacre be kosher?
Chief Technical Officer
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The Pathfinder brand is the most important and most valuable thing we own at Paizo, and it's of crucial import to us that it appears only on products that the average teen (and their parents) can feel comfortable with.
While the subject matter of Hook Mountain Massacre could *easily* have been written in a fashion that would make it inappropriate for teens, I'm comfortable that the way we presented it was not out of line, and would merit a solid "PG-13" if the MPAA applied ratings to gaming books.
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Why not? I get that Paizo might not think it profitable to put such a book out themselves but the BoEF only caused an uproar within the community (and mostly over the backtracking on the d20 license rather than the content). Would having a book that talks about sexual content really be detrimental to the compatibility license? And why would sexual content (let's be honest that's what this is about) be banned but things like Hook Mountain Massacre be kosher?Paizo creates our Pathfinder products for ages 13 and up, and our licensees are expected to do the same. (Licensees can adjust that slightly as appropriate for their industry where needed—for example, WizKids has requirements that cause Pathfinder Battles minis to be labeled "Ages 14+", while Dynamite's Pathfinder comics are labeled "T+"). Even our open Pathfinder Compatibility License carries an adult-content clause: "You may not use this License for products that the general public would classify as 'adult content,' offensive, or inappropriate for minors."
This is not going to change.
That's a particularly horrible example you've given to support your point since it is implicit in the descriptions provided in said module, that the Kreegs are rather despicable rapists. Also that:
So really it's not specifically about you're particular peccadillo it's about a generalist view on presenting content that is acceptable for brand they are trying to maintain.
EDit: Point is subtly is key. Most people don't go around broadcasting when they're having sex, but "surprise" there's a really good chance that sex is occurring. This is the actual mature way to blend adult themed content into your world, and it is available for you as a player or GM to extrapolate on if you need it. Just because characters aren't acting like a drag queen on pride day, doesn't mean they aren't eccentric or interested in sex. It's just that it 364 days out of the year it isn't pride day and that same drag queen has suit on and is working 9 to 5.
And why would sexual content (let's be honest that's what this is about) be banned but things like Hook Mountain Massacre be kosher?United States, dude. Violence = OK, sex = bad.
Don't forget the It's-Bad-and-You-Should-Feel-Bad movement; it's huge here.
i'm from the United States and i have no problems with neither violent nor sexual content. in fact, i encourage players to engage in both until they feel better about their frustrations. i really don't care about severe fetishiness. everybody has some explicit desire they wish to vent. i'm a supporter of using fantasy role play to vent frustration and as an outlet to relieve stress. it's better the whole group vent their frustrations to one another than to have members go home frustrated.
if a player has a sick desire, don't shun them, cater to their desire till the point they grow relieved or sick of it.
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if a player has a sick desire, don't shun them, cater to their desire till the point they grow relieved or sick of it.
O_o!
Edit: As a general rule(Don't get me wrong that's great that it works for you) I don't see how this works outside of a circle of close friends, and even there could be harmful to relationships. In my mind role playing can be mature without being masturbatory, and when it swings in towards the latter it usually circles back around on itself and becomes immature.
if a player has a sick desire, don't shun them, cater to their desire till the point they grow relieved or sick of it.
The problem is that other players at the table might seriously hate that particular player fetishes, so relieving one might frustrate many others.
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I actually knew what Vic said earlier, they have made that very clear for a long time now. Which is why if a book gets made it will be by a 4pp using the OGL but making sure rules wise it fits Pathfinder rules.
So for those wanting a more mature book that is the only chance of seeing it. Paizo has repeatedly said RotRL is the max level they will go to and as Vic said PG-13 is their goal and requirement for 3pp to use the license.
I still know one company that is considering a mature OGL book for Pathfinder. Not sure anything will come of it though.
I still know one company that is considering a mature OGL book for Pathfinder. Not sure anything will come of it though.
I'd buy it.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I'm not looking to ban anything. I just simply wouldn't put down a quid for such puerile twaddle.
This.
What I meant above is that one person's mature content is another's *shrug* Gorbaz's "boobies good, violence evil, unless you're a stupid American" bits are a perfect example.*
Put out whatever you want (within our hosts requirements) by all means play however you want in your home games.** (Try to keep your PFS characters PG/PG-13 though, out of respect to others.
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I'm from the United States and I have no problems with neither violent nor sexual content. In fact, I encourage players to engage in both until they feel better about their frustrations. i really don't care about severe fetishiness. everybody has some expliIit desire they wish to vent. I'm a supporter of using fantasy roleplay to vent frustration and as an outlet to relieve stress. It's better the whole group vent their frustrations to one another than to have members go home frustrated.
If a player has a sick desire, don't shun them, cater to their desire till the point they grow relieved or sick of it.
I'd only shun them if they make others at the table feel uncomfortable. I know a few friends who has a rape fetish, but I would rather not let them game at a table with a friend of mine who happens to be a rape victim. Then again, the topic itself disgusts me to the point that I'd rather not play with them anyway. However, one of them seems to be able to stop himself from making that kind of jokes, and is actually playing a female Half-Elf Paladin in our current Council of Thieves campaign. He is new to Pathfinder, and his first character is a somewhat well RP'd Paladin of Iomedae.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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How does your race keep it's numbers up? With reproduction working the way you describe it, it would wind up halving it's numbers with each generation.I'm not looking to ban anything. I just simply wouldn't put down a quid for such puerile twaddle.This.
What I meant above is that one person's mature content is another's *shrug* Gorbaz's "boobies good, violence evil, unless you're a stupid American" bits are a perfect example.*
Put out whatever you want (within our hosts requirements) by all means play however you want in your home games.** (Try to keep your PFS characters PG/PG-13 though, out of respect to others.
*** spoiler omitted **
**** spoiler omitted **
Three ways
1) They can breed with other races (again, shapeshifters) offspring of the gender the Odmieniec parent is at the time of conception (male) or birth (female) breed 'true'.
2) They often go for big families. So an Odmieniec who decides to 'settle down' will try to have several kids, either 'coming out' to their partner, or stealing away (with their shifting offspring) when they hit puberty and their true nature starts to manifest. (Odmienic children resemble their non-Odmieniec parent, often to a disturbing degree.)
3) A wizard did it. :-)
So the Odmieniec are a cross between Xenomorphs, Hags and Doppelgangers? What's their common alignment?
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I'm not looking to ban anything. I just simply wouldn't put down a quid for such puerile twaddle.This.
What I meant above is that one person's mature content is another's *shrug* Gorbaz's "boobies good, violence evil, unless you're a stupid American" bits are a perfect example.*
Put out whatever you want (within our hosts requirements) by all means play however you want in your home games.** (Try to keep your PFS characters PG/PG-13 though, out of respect to others.
*** spoiler omitted **
**** spoiler omitted **
If my view of "boobies are good, violence is evil" is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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So the Odmieniec are a cross between Xenomorphs, Hags and Doppelgangers? What's their common alignment?
Neutral to chaotic neutral.
Summary:
Cataclysm hits, rocks fall everyone dies, etc, but they survive (whether due to their new abilites, or giving their destiny the collective finger can be debated). The family (Odmieniec is a family/house originally) gets together, the patriarch announces his wife is pregnant, so the line will remain pure and survive...
9 months later, mom's tummy explodes and something crawls out. Turns out you can't fight fate, and they will need to mingle their 'pure' bloodline with other races to survive.
And in the ongoing 'karma's a b@&+&' puberty basically insures they can't remain in their normal society. You think swelling breasts, first period and voice changes are rough? Imagine you're spontaniously changing hair/eye colours, start to change into that girl you're attracted to, or look in the mirror and see this blank eyed, grey skinned *thing* staring back at you. Then you're mom gives you the "Birds, bees, oh and you're the latest in a line of ancient shapeshifters. It's not bad, just make sure if you find a girl or boy, she's not a descendant too." Most parents take their children when they're about to hit that part of their lives and flee their communities, isolating to teach 'shapeshifting 101' (maybe with other Odmieniec, though then you have the 'star crossed lovers' problem).
Squint and strip the fluff and their similar to Eberron changelings (thus the name, Odmieniec)
While the subject matter of Hook Mountain Massacre could *easily* have been written in a fashion that would make it inappropriate for teens, I'm comfortable that the way we presented it was not out of line, and would merit a solid "PG-13" if the MPAA applied ratings to gaming books.
What about Sins of the Saviors, particularly the Iron Cages of Lust?
Not sure if this has been pointed out yet or not, but Fantastic Gallery's "Sisters of Rapture", while using Earth and real-world pantheons as its basis, provides some rules for sexuality based material, and uses the Pathfinder rules system.
While the subject matter of Hook Mountain Massacre could *easily* have been written in a fashion that would make it inappropriate for teens, I'm comfortable that the way we presented it was not out of line, and would merit a solid "PG-13" if the MPAA applied ratings to gaming books.What about Sins of the Saviors, particularly the Iron Cages of Lust?
A few demons hit on the PCs (either figuratively or literally), and that's the extent of it. I thought the whole section was played down quite a bit.
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A few demons hit on the PCs (either figuratively or literally), and that's the extent of it. I thought the whole section was played down quite a bit.While the subject matter of Hook Mountain Massacre could *easily* have been written in a fashion that would make it inappropriate for teens, I'm comfortable that the way we presented it was not out of line, and would merit a solid "PG-13" if the MPAA applied ratings to gaming books.What about Sins of the Saviors, particularly the Iron Cages of Lust?
The sidebar specifically mentions how it's being presented in a played down manner. It also suggest that it can be as raunchy as it needs to be for your particular groups taste, and that being played in that manner is actually more canonical. Though I do understand how those Alu Demons would manage to seduce a PC, mechanically speaking anyways, their DCs are abysmally low.
So the Odmieniec are a cross between Xenomorphs, Hags and Doppelgangers? What's their common alignment?
Odmieniec (or Podmieniec) literally translates to changeling - i.e. the fey child that is replacement for a human child stolen by various mythical entities (that in D&D would be classified as fey type or sometimes undead as they are often related in mythology).
It is somewhat common idea that fey swap their children with human because they need fresh blood to reinvigorate their failing fertility.
So the Odmieniec are a cross between Xenomorphs, Hags and Doppelgangers? What's their common alignment?Odmieniec (or Podmieniec) literally translates to changeling - i.e. the fey child that is replacement for a human child stolen by various mythical entities (that in D&D would be classified as fey type or sometimes undead as they are often related in mythology).
It is somewhat common idea that fey swap their children with human because they need fresh blood to reinvigorate their failing fertility.
I'm from a region where those tales are known to be told, you know.
I'm from a region where those tales are known to be told, you know.
I.e. almost anywhere? I don't know if Native Americans had such tales as well. Oh, wait, with the tales of alien abduction bearing stiring resemblance to fairy abduction tales we can safely say "everywhere".
I've heard the main place for such tales is Scandinavia and Finland.
Bortbytingar... Yes. We have those tales in Sweden. I think their original idea was to explain why a child might not be very much like its parents, or, say, be unexpectedly strong as a baby, or explain why a child suddenly changed.
What really is scary to think about is the myling. It is the undead form of a child set out in the forest because the family could not feed it. It screams, sounding much like a horrible sound from a cat fight.
If my view of "boobies are good, violence is evil" is wrong, then I don't want to be right.
I'm with you, man.
Well, for the first part anyways :) I kinda like violence in my fiction :)
Mature Content books don't sell very well. White Wolf did this with the Black Dog games line. Now those books were quite interesting but they didn't sell well. I'm not saying the didn't sell at all but they weren't books that had a driving demand.