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Must be an American thing.It feels like it is. Several years back, one of the groups I frequented had two exchange students (German, Irish); one of the locals actually walked out during a session after the Irish girl's PC indulged in some unexpected-yet-completely-in-character antics. I wish to Cthulhu that I could remember exactly what happened, but that's just it: at the time it was so tame that only one out of six gave a s%$*. I asked the DM what happened with the guy and he just laughed it off and said something along the lines of, "yeah, we can't even use the word 'sex' around [name], he'll flip you know, so we just flap our arms and yell STORK-STORK-STORK!"...
It's worth noting that he was the only one of a group of six who took any kind of issue with the story direction of the game. Seems like a pretty limited example from which to base your opinion of an entire society. Or rather a niche group within that society as really this discussion only has merit when applied to Tabletop RPG players. Point is 5 out of 6 ain't bad.
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How would you feel if you later learned that the player that walked out on these antics had suffered sexual abuse and was experiencing resurfacing trauma due to the triggers presented by the players?Must be an American thing.It feels like it is. Several years back, one of the groups I frequented had two exchange students (German, Irish); one of the locals actually walked out during a session after the Irish girl's PC indulged in some unexpected-yet-completely-in-character antics. I wish to Cthulhu that I could remember exactly what happened, but that's just it: at the time it was so tame that only one out of six gave a s*##. I asked the DM what happened with the guy and he just laughed it off and said something along the lines of, "yeah, we can't even use the word 'sex' around [name], he'll flip you know, so we just flap our arms and yell STORK-STORK-STORK!"...
I wouldn't feel anything, because:
- my actions did not cause him to leave the room- I never chastised him for his discomfort
- I'm not the group's sin eater
What I would do is
- be aware of his reactions during gameplay and try to change subjects when he looked uncomfortable
- keep in mind his past issues when GMing and try to avoid anything that might bring up bad memories
If he doesn't communicate, I won't know to avoid those mental landmines. I understand that there is a phenomenal amount of barriers to overcome before discussing such things with another person, but I'm not psychic either. And I do ask players - privately - beforehand about anything they'd like me to leave out of a campaign, content-wise. After I give players the chance to voice their concerns and nothing comes up, I'm not going to avoid everything I think might be a potential issue.
For the record: one of the players in my group was trapped in her home as it burned (five or six at the time) and suffered serious burns before firemen were able to get her out. When writing up sessions, I keep in mind: claustrophobia, massive fire hazards, and children dying alone. She never told anyone at the table and I only found out through her roommate after I noticed a few burn scars.
It's worth noting that he was the only one of a group of six who took any kind of issue with the story direction of the game. Seems like a pretty limited example from which to base your opinion of an entire society. Or rather a niche group within that society as really this discussion only has merit when applied to Tabletop RPG players. Point is 5 out of 6 ain't bad.Must be an American thing.It feels like it is. Several years back, one of the groups I frequented had two exchange students (German, Irish); one of the locals actually walked out during a session after the Irish girl's PC indulged in some unexpected-yet-completely-in-character antics. I wish to Cthulhu that I could remember exactly what happened, but that's just it: at the time it was so tame that only one out of six gave a s%$*. I asked the DM what happened with the guy and he just laughed it off and said something along the lines of, "yeah, we can't even use the word 'sex' around [name], he'll flip you know, so we just flap our arms and yell STORK-STORK-STORK!"...
The guy was as average and typical as you can get, while the rest of us were either foreigners or misfits in some way or another.
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How would you feel if you later learned that the player that walked out on these antics had suffered sexual abuse and was experiencing resurfacing trauma due to the triggers presented by the players?Must be an American thing.It feels like it is. Several years back, one of the groups I frequented had two exchange students (German, Irish); one of the locals actually walked out during a session after the Irish girl's PC indulged in some unexpected-yet-completely-in-character antics. I wish to Cthulhu that I could remember exactly what happened, but that's just it: at the time it was so tame that only one out of six gave a s*##. I asked the DM what happened with the guy and he just laughed it off and said something along the lines of, "yeah, we can't even use the word 'sex' around [name], he'll flip you know, so we just flap our arms and yell STORK-STORK-STORK!"...
Personally I might feel a little bad, but I am over-sensitive. It is everyone's responsibility to put out what they are uncomfortable with, because I do not read minds. Also if that were the case that person would be in the minority. The majority of people have not been the victim of sexual abuse, etc. This doesn't make those who have suffered wrong, it just makes your example unfair, in my opinion.
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Including potentially triggering things in a game is not the problem. You can't know what everyone will be upset by.
But once someone in that game does have issue with it, insulting and disparaging them after the fact is not cool.
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Including potentially triggering things in a game is not the problem. You can't know what everyone will be upset by.
But once someone in that game does have issue with it, insulting and disparaging them after the fact is not cool.
As long as the people at the table are cool, mature and intelligent you can basically float with almost anything.
It's not a content problem, it's a people problem.
Are you suggesting that if anyone doesn't want to play with such things, they're not cool, mature and intelligent?
It's not a content problem, it's a people problem.
While I'm on your side regarding mature people allowing one to float with almost anything (almost emphasized), I think you are oversimpifying things.
It's a social game, after all. Every bit of content within it affects the people; and every one is affected differently, and reflects it differently.
Where do you draw the line between 'people and 'content' problem? If any of the participants are far enough out of their comfort zone to not enjoy things any more? If several people are? If you are?
If I know that some topics, or style of play make the game non-fun for someone at my table, I'll shy away from it. That having been said, I am not a mind reader; and I positively refuse to go the politically correct way of proactively excluding everything that someone might take offense with.
To come back at your statement, Gorbacz... I thing the whole issue with the demonification of sexual context (thus leaving much of it to the puerile 'hurr hurr... it's taboo, so we must dig it' approach) is a cultural problem.
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GMs and players a like would do well to keep some empathy for their fellow players in mind too. It really isn't asking too much to respect comfort zones and trigger issues.A million times this.
If someone says they're not comfortable with a certain level of something or another, don't prance around calling them names for not being tough enough or whatever to tolerate it.
As before, some of us have been hurt. It's a real issue and it doesn't deserve the kind of snide dismissal as prudishness I see in this very thread.
Can you point out where someone called anyone else names?
And yes, before anything concerning this kind of gaming material is brought to our table, it's brought up in conversation and players are asked how they feel about it. I think I've already said, at least in my own defense, that this sort of campaign style requires some careful handling and making sure everyone in the group is ok with it. All it takes is one person to not feel comfortable with the idea, and I will not incorporate these elements at all.
A simple "Hey, I'm not really cool with this kind of game myself, I'll pass" works wonders. Jumping up and down screaming "I'm a victim! I'm a victim! I DEMAND exceptions to be made for me!" Doesn't evoke as much sympathy as you think it would.
I want to run a fun, interesting game, and if anyone at my table is uncomfortable with any of the subject matter at hand, then that goes directly against what I'm trying to do as a DM and I will move the game into a different direction for this person. I've done so in in-game situations that pushed moral and ethical envelopes, and accidentally hit nerves I had no intention of hitting. The moment someone is not cool with what's going on, I will gladly change it up and scale it back. I don't have any kind of personal fantasies to put out on display, I just want to run a fun, interesting game for my players.
The funny part is, even when I use material out of BoEF, I still don't role-play out sex scenes. The explicit details of actual sex acts are mostly left up to the player and their imagination in my games.
If someone thinks the only facet of human/demi-human sexuality is the actual act of intercourse itself, I have to question how much of it a person has actually experienced. There's a whole world of sides that surround and make use out of sexuality that don't involve "some kind of thing going into some other thing." It's the way a person/character/npc/etc moves, the clothes they wear, their mannerisms, their way of speaking, the kinds of characters they associate themselves with, etc etc etc. It motivates a HUGE array of PC choices, npc attitudes, and goes into the deepest depths of our psyche, motivating everything mentioned above. Sexuality is a powerful driving force, because really, if it weren't, our species would die off pretty fast.
These things alone can drive entire campaigns, or even novels if one is so inspired. And at not actual point does the DM ever have to actual describe to a player exactly what happens once the bedroom door closes. Mature themed games I run deal with the other 98% of sexuality that lead up to the act, not necessarily the act itself.
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It's not a content problem, it's a people problem.While I'm on your side regarding mature people allowing one to float with almost anything (almost emphasized), I think you are oversimpifying things.
It's a social game, after all. Every bit of content within it affects the people; and every one is affected differently, and reflects it differently.
Where do you draw the line between 'people and 'content' problem? If any of the participants are far enough out of their comfort zone to not enjoy things any more? If several people are? If you are?If I know that some topics, or style of play make the game non-fun for someone at my table, I'll shy away from it. That having been said, I am not a mind reader; and I positively refuse to go the politically correct way of proactively excluding everything that someone might take offense with.
To come back at your statement, Gorbacz... I thing the whole issue with the demonification of sexual context (thus leaving much of it to the puerile 'hurr hurr... it's taboo, so we must dig it' approach) is a cultural problem.
Yeah, I took several short-cuts to save keyboard time, but cultural problem is certainly a part of it.
Some day I need to learn how to keep an attention span on Ashiel or Tactislion level oh look, a butterfly, how pretty what we were discussing here anyway?
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All it boils down to is this: if someone is going to use any of this subject matter in a game, it deserves to be brought up ahead of time. If someone is not cool with this, they need to speak up. And if someone does, then the material should not be used.
Same as any other splat book out there; if your table doesn't have a use for it, don't use it. But don't demonize the players who do find some use and fun from it.
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if paizo made a mature content book, i would purchase it if it leaned more sexual then violent.
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From Nualia's tryst to Shayliss Vinder to the Grauls to Ileosa and her Grey Maidens to the option of same-sex romance via the relationship rules in Jade Regent, I'd say Paizo isn't in much need of a single special book on the subject. People in Pathfinder clearly get down as they see fit.
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Re: Mature content.
It is something to consider especially in PFS scenarios. In First Steps, for example there's a St. Andrew's Cross in the Paracountess' bedroom (and I don't mean the flag of Scottland). I missed it the first time I was reading aloud, but will remember to modify/omit it as needed when I run it again. (I had my 12 yo Niece at the table, I really don't want her asking her mom what a St. Andrew's Cross is). We don't know all the kinks/quirks/trauma at the table.
Comments like:
Don't help. (Though it makes me swell with a sense of national pride all the America bashing, usually when you attack a group or nation with blind stereotyping, you're just showing your own insecurities)
Mature content is fun in the right context. I've been asked in online games to have my PC stop flirting with another PC because the male player was being unnerved. At the same time, my male PC was romancing a female PC while the players were discussing our work and respective marriages. Heck, at the table I was playing a "Jack Harkness type" and freaked out the other players at the table when my PC, after seducing the chambermaid, commented about going after her brother next. Some(most?) people can seperate the game from themselves. My characters can walk a tightrope 300' in the air where I would be paralyzed with fear, to use a non-sexual example.
For some people it is an issue. Whether it be a moral issue, or a personal issue, we, as people, need to respect others, even when we disagree with them. I had a player come over the table after me because she misinterpreted how I meant the phrase "Daddy's little girl" and I did know about her past. I tell people, perfectly deadpan, that the reason I have one of my roommates is she burned her house down. I know not to play with fire, or describe it in detail because she was left in a burning building as a kid. I'd not run Hook Mountain Massacare for my godkids without toning down the content.
As a player/GM, I don't need random STD tables, or %chance of being impregnated, or any pointless mechanics like that.
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It is something to consider especially in PFS scenarios. In First Steps, for example there's a St. Andrew's Cross in the Paracountess' bedroom (and I don't mean the flag of Scottland). I missed it the first time I was reading aloud, but will remember to modify/omit it as needed when I run it again. (I had my 12 yo Niece at the table, I really don't want her asking her mom what a St. Andrew's Cross is). We don't know all the kinks/quirks/trauma at the table.
Doesn't have a problem running a game where people cut each other's guts out, melt faces using acid, set blood on fire, summon demons and devils for a 12 yr old.
Has an issue with a reference to a BDSM accessory in a scenario.
BONUS POINTS: Is an American conservative.
Thanks for making my point :-)
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Some day I need to learn how to keep an attention span on Ashiel or Tactislion level oh look, a butterfly, how pretty what we were discussing here anyway?
But... but... I've got ADD...
Also, it's definitively a cultural issue in general. While I own neither Book of Erotic Fantasy, nor Nymphology, I do sometimes incorporate 'mature' themes into my stories... but always within player the confines of comfort (I've misjudged once, and very readily changed what was happening, because the story I was crafting doesn't matter if they don't have fun.
As a very strong Christian, raised in a distinctly highly conservative Judeo-Christian style, and as a good friend of one who underwent sexual abuse at the hands of terrible people, I understand (to the limited amount that I'm able) the nature of recalcitrance coming from cultural, moral, ethical, and historical events. Some things affect people more strongly than others, and some people are effected by things more than others (two different, yet similar ideas, there). I'm not interested in going where others are uncomfortable; I mean, I have my own things where I'm uncomfortable, and I wouldn't want them broached upon, so why force that on someone else?
That said, a great deal of the difficulty (culturally, as opposed to individually) that exists for sexual themes in particular is the Judeo-Christian ideal: that is, that sex is to be inside of marriage. While this is not, actually, a problem for sexuality in principle, in practice it's become this whole thing where talking about sex is seen as dirty somehow, because... um... it's supposed to be saved for marriage, I guess? A careful reading - well, not really "careful", actually, just about any reading, including the most casual - of Song of Solomon should convince most that the Bible has nothing against sex, and nothing against talking about sex, even as it encourages sexual interactions in only within the proper confines (i.e. marriage).
But that's speaking of the Bible, and within the real-world.
The thing about places like Golarion, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, and the like? They're not the real world. They exist with different rules than this world does.
Example(s) time:
1) Lying: in the real world, lying is generally considered to be a bad thing to do by most people much of the time (yet something that many people still engage in, under the aegis of it being "okay because it's white/small/tiny/etc" but that's another topic) - I mean, no one likes to be lied to. In D&D/PF though? It's a skill without an alignment descriptor, and you can easily have a lawful good anybody-but-a-paladin (due to their code) be a master of lies and deceit and never change their alignment (and, in fact, if they're good at diplomacy, could eventually reveal the truth and be well-loved for it). This is a distinctively reality-dissonance effect: one thing that exists in our world is fundamentally different in the other.
2) Magic: In our world, I've never seen a fireball outside of specific, semi-purposeful chemical interactions, and usually at close range unless you have a large projection system or have carefully taken the time to set it up some distance away. There? A guy with some bat-poop snaps his fingers and says the words and it happens waaaaaayyyyyy over there, and pretty much instantly.
3) Creatures: take your pick of the Beastiary. Really, go ahead. I've never run into any of 'em* (I mean, I've seen scary house cats, before, but I've never run into one who could kill approximately 1/6 of the people alive on a 50/50 chance).
4) Morals: and here's the sticky-wicket. If bestiality is wrong (which most, I think, would probably consider it so in our world), what about lycanthropes? Does inter-species intercourse count? Is falling for a vampire necrophilia? You instantly have a whole host of moral quandaries that don't exist in our world. Generally, most people (with good reason) hand-wave it: it's much easier to just treat all sentient creatures as more-or-less "the same" than coming up with convoluted, potentially-unfortunate-implication morality for each species of creature. When added to goddesses like Shelyn (and Calistria)** setting the defining standard of what "love" and "intimacy" is like, you've got your morality (and ethics) defined for you*** (at least sexually - there are other gods that function to explain what other actions look like both good and evil).
And that last moral dissonance is where many people simply draw the line: they cannot accept that something so different from our own world could be countenanced. To me, it's as much a fantasy-setting allowance as, say, having multiple gods, magic, and creatures straight out of Greek and Arabic myths hanging side-by-side with creatures straight out of Nordic and Gaelic myths. And owlbears. But to others, they simply can't accept that. So, for them, I run a game differently than I do for others who are fine with those concepts (such as myself).
Heck, some people get hung up on the magic! I even understand that (it was one of my greatest hesitations to getting into the whole RPG thing once upon a time... man have I changed)!
But, you know, to each their own, and the real purpose behind the game is to empower people to have fun. My wife and I are fond of thinking of PF as an "imagination focusing tool" - we could always come up with fun stories and make stuff up on the fly, but having a concrete set of rules to work with means that the things we make up have defined limits: we're less likely to accidentally break verisimilitude, when we've both effectively agreed to follow a certain set of guidelines for how the fantasy-story works (as we explain it to ourselves).
But that's basically what any Pencil-and-Paper RPG is: a group entering a social contract to allow their story (and imagination) to be focused by the rules (whatever they are) on-hand for the mutual enjoyment of all. (NOTE: "story" does not have to be anything more epic, here, than "kill stuff, loot treasure" - it's simply a short-hand, all-encompassing word for pretty much anything you'd do with an RPG in which you describe characters doing stuff.)
Anyway, ... I've typed too much. Again. Sorry.^^ Maybe.
* I submit that many - but not all - of the "animals" in the Beastiary do, in fact, exist in our world, and I've seen many, if not most, of those that do. But they don't necessarily have the stats as-presented: the house cat being the given example.
** Or, say, Sune and Sharess, or <insert your favorite god(s) from your favorite campaign setting(s) here>
*** To a point. The fact that Shelyn effectively says, "hey, everybody that wants to love anyone else, regardless of their situation, is just fine" - and that's her primary thing - and is neutral good, gives you a heads-up that the attitude expressed therein is, in fact, neutral good. It doesn't mean that anyone with that attitude is neutral good, nor that other attitudes are not good (look at Erastil, for example), but that Shelyn's is entirely good. Also, look at Calistria: goddess of lust, trickery and revenge, and she's chaotic... neutral. Clearly, none of those things are good, per se, but not inherently evil, either. And when combined with Empyrial lords like Ragathiel (lawful good revenge) and Arshea (neutral good sexuality and liberty from repression^), you've got a pretty clear idea that, on Golarion, sex is generally a good thing, except when used for evil purposes.
^ I seriously read that paragraph as "liberty from oppression so many times before finally getting it.
^^ This... may not be true. Darn you Bluff skill!!!
EDIT: to separate a paragraph and add a small comment
ALSO: to clarify: "to have fun" isn't necessarily the same thing as "get whatever you want". Sometimes it's more fun if you play by the rules and everything doesn't go "just right", even if it doesn't seem like it at the time. But then again, that's a play-styles issue, and a tangent, and I'll stop now before some sort of internet flame war erupts.
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Heck, at the table I was playing a "Jack Harkness type" and freaked out the other players at the table when my PC, after seducing the chambermaid, commented about going after her brother next.Well if you were really going to type, you'd be leering at the poodles too. :) (classic funny scene in Torchwood with Jack and a fellow expatriate from the 51st century, otherwise known as the Omnisexual Era)
"If you like guys and you're a guy, you're gay.
If you like Jack and you're a guy, you're Human."
Didn't get that far.
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It is something to consider especially in PFS scenarios. In First Steps, for example there's a St. Andrew's Cross in the Paracountess' bedroom (and I don't mean the flag of Scottland). I missed it the first time I was reading aloud, but will remember to modify/omit it as needed when I run it again. (I had my 12 yo Niece at the table, I really don't want her asking her mom what a St. Andrew's Cross is). We don't know all the kinks/quirks/trauma at the table.Doesn't have a problem running a game where people cut each other's guts out, melt faces using acid, set blood on fire, summon demons and devils for a 12 yr old.
Has an issue with a reference to a BDSM accessory in a scenario.
Thanks for making my point :-)
Nope. My sister knew about the blood guts and slaughtering. (She never played, but sat in with us) She *didn't* know about the sexual content. If I'd seen it before, I'd have run it by her. IF she didn't have an issue, I'd not have worried. All about respecting others boundaries.
Edit: Bonus a conservative with an Out lesbian mom, cousin, and roommates I took in, who is peripherally involved in the local D/s community. I find your lack of understanding of respecting others, disturbing.
Oh, and I don't recall anyone 'declawing' Paizo or other game companies. The only thing that would 'declaw' them would be the market.
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I don't have a problem with people whose sensitivity doesn't match mine.
I have a problem with such people who intimidate my favorite publishers into de-clawing material.
Sure there are puritanical attitudes over here as well. But they don't faze RPG publishers, because people who follow puritanical attitudes aren't the target group for RPGs here, unlike in the USA, nor they don't have the Freak Out Anybody Into Submission [Ex] as a class ability at level 1.
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4) Morals: and here's the sticky-wicket. If bestiality is wrong (which most, I think, would probably consider it so in our world), what about lycanthropes? Does inter-species intercourse count? Is falling for a vampire necrophilia? You instantly have a whole host of moral quandaries that don't exist in our world.
To make it even a more sticky wicket, to some people (me) the issue with bestial/necro is consent. In a world with speak with animals speak with dead and awaken the line becomes even greyer.
Is Catherine the Great's (fictional) love of horses wrong? What about if she could cast speak with animals? What about if it was a unicorn? Or if she had awakened the animal?
If it was a unicorn, she'd really only get the one chance.
After all, unicorns don't allow non-virgin ride-oh, okay, that's awful, I'll stop now.
(Also, yes, exactly my point: different people get caught at different areas. Conservative Christian heritage for the win, plus fist-pound!)
Sex is a dicey thing to go explicit with at a table where you don't know the people very well.
And the people you do know well may be carrying baggage you're not aware of. If there's any form of trauma that people keep to themselves, it's most frequently got sex as part of the package.
I'm surprised to see a post like this, but it's that happy sort of surprise people don't get very often. You pretty much summed up what I was going to say to Gorbacz, minus the part where I wanted to verbally rip him a new one for implying that "maturity" equates to a lack of empathy like he kinda did with the posts I peeked at from my workplace. Umbral Reaver's comments deserve any faves they get.
Some people have traumas. Some of these traumatized folk (though not all) can freak out due to said traumas. YOU'RE the bad guy if you call them squeamish or childish or other crap like that, and in contrast, they're not bad because "they're ruining your fun". And yeah, trying to preach that entitlement (of any kind) is bad while screaming stuff like "I am entitled to having fun and I do not respect you if your traumas stop me from getting it" just kinda goes to show that underneath all the hilarious "derptroll" comments, I still can see why Gorbacz manages to rub me the wrong way up until he explains his far less than appealing views on things.
How would you feel if you later learned that the player that walked out on these antics had suffered sexual abuse and was experiencing resurfacing trauma due to the triggers presented by the players?Must be an American thing.It feels like it is. Several years back, one of the groups I frequented had two exchange students (German, Irish); one of the locals actually walked out during a session after the Irish girl's PC indulged in some unexpected-yet-completely-in-character antics. I wish to Cthulhu that I could remember exactly what happened, but that's just it: at the time it was so tame that only one out of six gave a s*##. I asked the DM what happened with the guy and he just laughed it off and said something along the lines of, "yeah, we can't even use the word 'sex' around [name], he'll flip you know, so we just flap our arms and yell STORK-STORK-STORK!"...
...I hope people here, all of the people here, can honestly say they'd feel like s*** over something like that, though my cynical side says that some people here will say "no" and just make me feel like the world should burn with their pathetic justifications for being sociopathic, greedy and self-entitled. *Angry venting over*
Ah, the "including XXX in your games is bad, because you might have a victim of XXX in your group!" argument.
Well, guess what, I play in a Werewolf game in which I am a (reformed-ish) neo-Nazi Get of Fenris with ancestors who served in Waffen-SS AND one *player* at our table is half Jewish, with one grandparent gone the way of gas chamber.
We're super cool with that. That's because we're either:
a) demented, childish European sickos,
b) mature, level-headed people.Pick your choice.
No, you're neither of those. The jewish guy is probably taking it quite well, but the rest of you are probably just self-entitled sociopaths who think anything can be funny, from dead babies to women being accused of being raped instead of men being accused of actually raping said woman. Which isn't how things should work...
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Is Catherine the Great's (fictional) love of horses wrong?
The association with Catherine the Great, came from the routine that her favorite of the moment would be given a sinecure position of "Master of the Horse."
Another tidbit. Catherine the Great despite being Empress of Russia was actually German.
When they went to type the Romanov remains, they used Prince Phillip's DNA. (I'm something of a Russia-phile)
Always wondered why inbreeding is seen as a 'redneck thing' It was all the rage among the royals. :-)
Again, do you need rules for that? Do you also look for rules on going to the can, or tieing your laces? Mechanics are what you use for the pure mechanical functions of the game, mainly combat and utility. Erotica falls into the realm of roleplay. I'm assuming that you're running a campaign with more depth than the level of "Which dice do I roll to seduce someone?" For a game like that, detail laden books are a waste anyway.It's beyond erotica though. If all the book covered was erotica, it'd have a lot fewer pages. Mating, relationships, offspring, etc can all play a role. Maybe a powerful Noble wishes a sire?
Need? No, not really. I don't need anything outside of the Core rulebook and maybe a Bestiary type book or two. It's just kind of handy to have around, or to mine ideas from.
I don't sit and incorporate the book into the game page by page, verbatim. I happen to scan through it and found a few things that would work well in the games my group plays.
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The best way to avoid problems is before you start the game is to set levels and expectations before characters are rolled and people are sat down at the table.
For example.
As a GM Letting the players know you are going to having high level violence, demon worship (and all the horror that entails) that there will be sexual content and it will be at 50 Shades level (bad but current example) and that it is negotiable. Then saying I am going to make a coffee so anybody who wants to speak to me one on one can do so. In the conversation it's also important if somebody is not comfortable with the sexual content not to question them about it.
If everybody except one person is keen for the mature game then you have some hard decisions to make, can you offer to run an additional game without the material or can you help them find a another group with similar tastes.
But setting the levels for what you want from your players is also important...especially if you are looking to run a game that is Sense and Sensibility level of romance and your players decide to get all Boogie Nights on your plot it's going to throw you.
I woul love fluf on how various races reproduce, gestation period, numbers of young, mating rituals...
We all know that Romulans are only interested every 7 years, Klingons like it rough, Ferengi like to keep their women nude, Kirk would give anything vaguely female an breathing a whirl.
So what is wrong with wanting to know if Elves like interpretive dance, bad street theatre and a limerick before they get in the mood.
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Wow, some of you people need to relax. This is a fantasy game that has nothing to do with real world. If some of you want to play it at a PG13 level that is fine. If other people would like to have more mature content that is fine too. But the fact that I or other people would not mind having more mature books should not be a problem for the rest of you.
And mature content does not have to be explicit or have anything to do with sex. And yes I do read Paizo official stuff, they do a great job creating a realistic world while keeping their content pretty dam usable for minors. But if other publishers do want to cross into R and beyond territory its up to them as long as they are comfortable with the subject.
The thing is most of us are mature adults. I know my players and what they are comfortable with. The "what if there are children that were raped in your group" argument is really childish and immature. As a responsible adult I would assume. That you know your players and are considerate enough to ask before presenting such materials.
Most American that I know are good and fun loving people. And I have nothing against them, after all I serve in your Army. But you are really uncomfortable around that 3 letter word.
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These things alone can drive entire campaigns, or even novels if one is so inspired. And at not actual point does the DM ever have to actual describe to a player exactly what happens once the bedroom door closes. Mature themed games I run deal with the other 98% of sexuality that lead up to the act, not necessarily the act itself.
This sums up perfectly my experiences also. There is no need to be explicit while role playing.
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My group has sex involved in nearly every game we run without any problems. Everything from gay characters, nations built around polygamy (in a positive light), pc/npc and pc/pc relationships, sex used as means of information gathering, or as a weapon (succubi/incubi), "trap" characters breaking gender roles.
I would hardly call us especially mature over others, but my part of the US was colonized by the Dutch, not the puritans.
Wow, some of you people need to relax. This is a fantasy game that has nothing to do with real world. If some of you want to play it at a PG13 level that is fine. If other people would like to have more mature content that is fine too. But the fact that I or other people would not mind having more mature books should not be a problem for the rest of you.
The thing is most of us are mature adults. I know my players and what they are comfortable with. The "what if there are children that were raped in your group" argument is really childish and immature. As a responsible adult I would assume. That you know your players and are considerate enough to ask before presenting such materials.
1. I am fine playing my game mature. What I am not fine with is the attitude that some people have when doing so.
2. How in the name of the nine Hells does one make such an "argument" childish in any meaning of the word? It's a well-known fact that most (though thankfully not all) people don't go telling anyone about traumatic incidents like that, even to their closest friends. Trying to throw the "you are childish and immature for thinking X" card is just a hollow "ad hominem" argument you use to try and make yourself look smarter. I mean, do you really think empathy, carefulness and consideration are childish things? Kids go sticking their fingers in places where they don't belong, while it is the responsible adult that thinks twice, plays safe and so on.
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Including potentially triggering things in a game is not the problem. You can't know what everyone will be upset by.
But once someone in that game does have issue with it, insulting and disparaging them after the fact is not cool.
You are correct, and I did not mean to imply or state that I am okay with insulting and disparaging individuals.
That said, I will never hesitate from mocking the society that I have grown up in that I consider to be insanely prudish, not to mention hypocritical in its prudishness.
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You want to talk about ridiculousness in our society as relates to the word sex. I had a Health teacher, y'know the ones that teach sex-ed, that would not say the word sex, he had to spell it if he absolutely had to convey the word. He was a great person and outside of this minor issue I had no real problems with him.
1. I am fine playing my game mature. What I am not fine with is the attitude that some people have when doing so.
2. How in the name of the nine Hells does one make such an "argument" childish in any meaning of the word? It's a well-known fact that most (though thankfully not all) people don't go telling anyone about traumatic incidents like that, even to their closest friends. Trying to throw the "you are childish and immature for thinking X" card is just a hollow "ad hominem" argument you use to try and make yourself look smarter. I mean, do you really think empathy, carefulness and consideration are childish things? Kids go sticking their fingers in places where they don't belong, while it is the responsible adult that thinks twice, plays safe and so on.
I suppose we can agree to disagree on several subjects. Empathy, carefulness and consideration are NOT childish things. As for the rest of your comment, it's the standard "But think of the children!" argument.
