Cid Ayrbourne: That was already pointed out to me. As I stated, I thought I wrote something different. I was tired that night and had thought I had written 'Unless your invisible ninja' Not 'Once your invisibile ninja'.
- Gauss
joriandrake wrote: also: a full-round attack counts as one attack regarding sneak attack damage, as example a Godling with the Retribution scion power can't hit back at the enemy every single attack if the enemy does a full-round attack either due to it being considered as a single attack for the effect. What in that case is bad for the godling works for the advantage of the rogue in this case.
What is this supposed to mean? A full attack action involves as many attacks as your BAB, feats, and weapons-in-hand allow you to take, and a rogue can get sneak attack on all of them if ze is set up to allow that.
TWF requires a full attack action.
Flurry of Stars requires a full attack action.
Rapid Shot requires a full attack action.
Are these not mutually exclusive?
ZenithTN wrote: TWF requires a full attack action.
Flurry of Stars requires a full attack action.
Rapid Shot requires a full attack action.
Are these not mutually exclusive?
They don't actually require a full-attack action. They are done as part of a full-attack action. So yeah, you can do all of them.
Cid Ayrbourne wrote: Gauss wrote: Galahad2112: Once your invisibile ninja is using Greater Invisibility only 1 of those attacks has sneak attack.
Attack 1 (while invis): Target suffers sneak attack. This breaks invis.
Attack 2 (no longer invis): No sneak attack (unless other reasons are used).
Etc.
Stealth is the same way. You only benefit from the first attack.
- Gauss
Two things wrong with this.
1) Greater Invis doesn't break on attack.
2) If a character is flat-footed against your attacks, he's flat-footed until it's his initiative and has a chance to act.
So, if you're Stealthed, and on your initiative, you make 20 attacks as a full round action. Yes, you're no longer Stealthed with regards to that character (you may still have Stealth against other characters, however), but since it's still your initiative, and he has not had a chance to react, your other 19 attacks are also flat-footed attacks. 1) True if using Greater invis.
2) Possibly true but not pertinent to Stealth or invis since neither cause flatfooted.
And the last part is entirely incorrect because 2 is not used correctly. Also stealth as well as normal invis both cease after the first attack and you do not maintain stealth vs. creatures other than your target. Once you're out in the open stabbing violently the screams and blood and movement give you away.
Looking at some potential builds I think that being a Halfling might be nice. The drop from 1d2 to 1 damage only costs you half a point of damage per average on each hit, and you’ll get a +1 to hit for being small along with a +4 to Stealth and a +2 Charisma, which helps some Ninja abilities.
Taking max ranks in Use Magic Device and buying 9th level wands of Divine Favor could be very helpful. Getting Hand of the Mage built into an amulet so you can retrieve the wand as a free action after dropping it might be a nice. You could also look at using scrolls.
Assuming you’re a Halfling who maxed out Dex, at 11th level your attack bonus might look like: BAB+8, Dex26(+8), size bonus +1, Weapon Focus +1, Point Blank Shot +1, ITWF -2, Rapid Shot -2, Flurry of Stars -2 = +13/+13/+13/+13/+13/+8/+8.
The Divine Favor would make that a very respectable +16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+11. With 6d6 sneak attack on each hit that's potentially a lot of damage. Against stuff you can't sneak attack you could still do around 11 damage per hit with Deadly Aim. Be sure to carry shuriken of various metals to help bypass DR and maybe a few shuriken enchanted with bane vs creatures you'll have a tough time hurting (say elementals)
If your target is flat-footed, all your attacks that round get sneak attack regardless of stealth/invis/greater invis.
If your target is not flat-footed and you are stealthed or invis, you get sneak attack on the first attack only and then stealth/invis breaks.
If your target is not flat-footed and you have greater invis, all your attacks get sneak attack because your greater invis doesn't break.
Slightly off topic question: how much action does bluffing to create a diversion to re-stealth take? Can't seem to find the answer.
Hudax wrote: If your target is flat-footed, all your attacks that round get sneak attack regardless of stealth/invis/greater invis.
If your target is not flat-footed and you are stealthed or invis, you get sneak attack on the first attack only and then stealth/invis breaks.
If your target is not flat-footed and you have greater invis, all your attacks get sneak attack because your greater invis doesn't break.
Slightly off topic question: how much action does bluffing to create a diversion to re-stealth take? Can't seem to find the answer.
Hmmm well the bluff rules say deceiving normally takes one round or more but a feint in combat is only a standard so I'd guess a standard.
unless using Improved Feint
How bout flash powder, smoke sticks/pellets or choking/blinding bombs? Shouldn't thee help you regain stealth?
Shameless bump here, I'm curious about the flashpowder question.
I'm not real sure about using Rapid Shot with shurikens, which are thrown weapons. So it depends on whether you consider these to be ranged weapons. There are instances in the rulebooks where they make distinction between ranged and thrown weapons, but I'm not sure if they are meant to be distinct in the case of Rapid Shot.
Nightwish wrote: I'm not real sure about using Rapid Shot with shurikens, which are thrown weapons. So it depends on whether you consider these to be ranged weapons. There are instances in the rulebooks where they make distinction between ranged and thrown weapons, but I'm not sure if they are meant to be distinct in the case of Rapid Shot. Thrown weapons are ranged weapons when they are thrown. Rapid Shot can be used with them; in most cases, to get advantage of this, you have to already have the ranged weapon in hand or have Quickdraw. In the case of Shurikens, they are drawn as ammunition, a free action, so don't have this problem. Note that Shurikens are listed in the equipment chart as ranged weapons if there is any further confusion.
Orion Aul'onel wrote: Shameless bump here, I'm curious about the flashpowder question.
Sorry. I haven't checked the thread for a while. Here goes:
Powder, Flash
Source Advanced Player's Guide
This coarse gray powder ignites and burns almost instantly if exposed to flame, significant friction, or even a simple force such as throwing it against a floor (a standard action). Creatures within the 10-foot-radius burst are blinded for 1 round (Fortitude DC 13 negates).
Create: Craft (alchemy) DC 20
Monks can also flurry shuriken. Since they apply their full Strength to each one, the attack is pretty devastating. A monk with +4 strength and Deadly Aim is doing at least two attacks that do 1d2+6 damage.
I recently saw something that makes me consider playing a ninja again: a 1 level dip in Oracle with the Waves mystery can get water sight, allowing them to see through mist. They can also grab the obscuring mist spell (and/or a wand of such). Any creature more than 5 ft away has total concealment, as per the spell, BUT, you can specifically see through mist, therefore YOU have concealment, while THEY don't. This seems like a great set up for full attacking with sneak attack shuriken.
Broken Zenith wrote: Hello,
A player of mine wants to get an extra attack with shuriken by taking the two weapon fighting feat. Is this legit? Can he throw more skuriken with two-handed fighting?
From him:
"Quick Draw - You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of as a move action. A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
---Removes reload time (my hands get reloaded with shuriken as a free action)
Two Weapon Fighting - Reduce penalties on two weapon fighting
---Makes throwing 2 shuriken at a time feasible
Flurry of Stars- Throw two extra shurikens on a full round action, -2 penalty
Rapid Shot - When making a full-attack action with a ranged weapon, you can fire one additional time this round. All of your attack rolls take a –2 penalty when using Rapid Shot.
---Adds one extra throw to full round attack
So then when the ninja has a high enough attack mod to get the second attack, a full round action gives 2x2 attacks for Two Weapon Fighting +1 for Rapid shot, +2 for Flurry of Stars, and eventually +1 for Improved Two Weapon fighting and maybe even +1 for Greater Two Weapon Fighting, giving the ninja many attacks. Up to 9 if my logic works (though at a pretty severe minus to attack bonus, I probably would reduce the shuriken count for a better attack bonus). If that premise proves valid, other feats and ninja tricks I'd include:
Ninja tricks: Flurry of Stars, Pressure Points, Deadly Range
Feats: Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Mobility, Shot on the Run
The ninja would be a short-range semi-automatic shurikeneer, with the idea being you ninja-flip into combat, shuriken's spring from your blurred hands at nearby enemies, one here or there to dispatch minions and the rest at the primary target, then ninja-fly out, ninja-style. Also, I'd get flanking from 10 feet away, which eventually will give me Sneak Attack damage on top of all the individual shuriken. How many shuriken will be determined by how high I can get...
How are you getting 2x2 from two weapon fighting?
Enzo Chittock wrote: How are you getting 2x2 from two weapon fighting? I think he was mistakenly thinking that TWF, on its own, doubles all your normal attacks and ITWF/GTWF add extra off-hand attacks on top.
For the sake of clarity, it should be noted that the correct attack sequence, presuming +6 BAB, TWF, ITWF, Rapid Shot, and Flurry of Stars is +6/+1 main-hand as iteratives, +6 for your standard off-hand attack, +1 for your extra off-hand granted by ITWF, +6 for the extra granted by Rapid Shot, and +6/+6 for Flurry of Stars. You'd suffer a total of -6 to attack on all of these. For the sake of example, we'll say your ranged attack bonus is normally +11 (including BAB). With all these together, you'd have the following combination: 4x +5, 2x +0. It should also be noted that, while your main-hand attacks (from iterative) and off-hand attacks (standard off-hand and extra from ITWF) are obligated to follow descending BAB order (though, each hand is handled independently of the other), extra attacks from other sources (eg. Haste, Rapid Shot, Flurry of Stars, etc) are under no such obligation. So long as the +1 main-hand comes after the +6 main-hand, it doesn't matter what other attacks are before, between, or after. Same goes for the off-hand attacks.
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