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Depends on the experience of the players, and the tone you want to set.
For a novice, I might let his error it slide, and set him at -1hp (plus a series of stabilisation checks for the rounds in the meantime). Thus, he'll be out of commission, but not dead. (I assume the -11hp killed him; what was his Con score, anyway?)
For a more experienced player, or in a gritty campaign; tough luck. Players' oversights are their fault, not yours.
In no case I would restart combat.
I agree with Midnight_Angel. If novices, then allow the -1hp, if they are experienced players then he wasn't wearing the ring and his character is dead or dying at the -11hp. This will teach them that they need to pay attention to everything on their sheets and to keep their notes in order better otherwise they could wind up dead by missing something so simple.
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Retcon him as having survived without replaying the combat seems like the most reasonable action.
Your balancing realism (he would have had the ring on) with having him bear some responsibility for forgetting something he shouldn't.
In this case it actually works well because he was going to unconscious ring or not.
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I fail to see why people are differentiating between experience and new players here. Do people ever make mistakes? Is this a game you are playing? Yes to both? Then the PC was obviously wearing his magic ring (I mean who wouldn't be wearing a magic ring 24/7? What possible reason could there be to take it off?) and should be alive at -1 (plus whatever damage he would take from failed stabilization rolls).
This would even be a great roleplay moment as the rest of the party - thinking the wizard was dead - are amazed to see he is still breathing! The wizard could even have a near death experience (if you really want to drive home the importance of keeping better track of your gear I'd have an appropriate minion of the wizard's god show up say "everyone gets one" and then the PC wakes up, burned and in pain but alive - likely with the party healer kneeling over him pounding on his chest screaming 'Live you magnificent bastard! Live!")
I agree with RD here. Down and out is down and out, so the rest of the party have no idea if he is dead or alive. If nobody checked, nobody would have been there to heal him either.
Say his character feinted like a damsel and regained consciousness. I'd say at whatever hit points his ring would have left him in. He gets the ring benefit and he'll learn next time to know keep his stuff organized better.
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Agree with middle of road if he's new, let him stabilize but don't replay the combat. I trust my players to know their characters and have stated if they forget a bonus, we don't go back. May be the ring was chafing, he removed it, and forgot. Big oops but players, new and old, can't be disrupting the flow of the game by announcing 5 rounds later they should have taken less damage.
Leave him alive but don't replay. He'll remember better next time and running an entire combat over again is another session so let people know that remembering things more than 1 round out is not going to fly.
It keeps his guy from being dead and keeps the game flowing.
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The way I do it in my group is if they forget a save bonus or an item they have, we do not go back and reply the round/scene/etc. Of course, I also need to keep an eye out for players that may decide to 'accidentally' miscalculate to their benefit. If it happens once, I forgive it. If it were to happen more often, I would have to have a serious chat with the player. Fortunately, I have not detected any dishonesty in my players so far, so it has not been an issue.
Keep in mind that your decision will set a precedence. The next time it happens, they will expect you to make the same choice unless you set up guidelines (and then you have to stick to them).
As for what to do now, I suggest that if the mage is alive and unconscious, leave him at -11. If he died because of the error, put him stabilized at -10 and go from there. Either way, the hardship is a penalty for the mistake...but then set up the guidelines so everyone knows what will happen next time.
How is this even a problem?
Yay! The wizard is still ALIVE! We thought we lost you! Glad to have you back.
I'd say don't replay, just adjust his hp to be as though he'd had it on.
I've had a similar case in a game where the group's monk had racial cold resistance. He took damage from a frost giant and got knocked slightly past the point of death. Two rounds later the player remembered that her monk had cold resist 5 and that he would have actually been 1 hp away from dying rather than dead.
I told her to roll to stabilize as if 1hp short of death. She made the roll, so it was ruled that the monk was unconscious, and after the battle they managed to heal him back up.
Yeah, don't replay; he lived, adjust his HP, but don't replay anything. It'll help him learn to track his own stuff.
Emphasize (nicely) that it's their responsibility to track their character's stuff and treat it as a learning experience.
Let him live, But do not repley. He should make a good character sheet and remember his items is his responsebility.
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I disagree with the not having a low CON Wizard (or any character), take Raistlin for example...
The game bit of and RPG is combat, but don't overlook the 'roleplaying' part of Pathfinder. What purpose did the death serve for the game as a whole? If you note down the PC's hp's during the session and roughly keep track of how they are doing then you can 'adjust' the fireball damage (in this case) to make the encounter a surprise (tense) rather than a death (dull). I personally as a rule don't mind PC's dying during a fight but on a surprise round, that is a bit rough. There have been a LOT of threads on DM's so called 'cheating' (DM fiat), but usually this is done in situations as you have described to save the game. In this case you of course can retro-act and have the ring on - but I would suggest having a rough idea of the parties condition over the course of the game so you can moderate such surprises.
2 cents.
I disagree with the not having a low CON Wizard (or any character), take Raistlin for example...
The game bit of and RPG is combat, but don't overlook the 'roleplaying' part of Pathfinder. What purpose did the death serve for the game as a whole? If you note down the PC's hp's during the session and roughly keep track of how they are doing then you can 'adjust' the fireball damage (in this case) to make the encounter a surprise (tense) rather than a death (dull). I personally as a rule don't mind PC's dying during a fight but on a surprise round, that is a bit rough. There have been a LOT of threads on DM's so called 'cheating' (DM fiat), but usually this is done in situations as you have described to save the game. In this case you of course can retro-act and have the ring on - but I would suggest having a rough idea of the parties condition over the course of the game so you can moderate such surprises.
2 cents.
I agree with this man. However if you have 11 con and don't prepare in other ways to protect yourself then it's your fault.
Im with role playing it! Have the characters gather over his toasted body only for him to cough still alive, clutching desperately to his ring of fire resist! *shrug* it would happen in a movie and it would be awesome!
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Im with role playing it! Have the characters gather over his toasted body only for him to cough still alive, clutching desperately to his ring of fire resist! *shrug* it would happen in a movie and it would be awesome!
Awesome way to keep the players 'in character' and 'in game' to explain the survival!
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"Someone help me! I'm still alive, only I'm very badly burned."
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I'm not quite dead yet.
In fact I'm getting better.
I think I'll go for a walk.
This is what happened in those multiple issues of the X-men during the Claremont years:
last page of the comic....Cyclops/Nightcrawler/Wolverine/Storm screaming "ZOMG! CYCLOPS/NIGHTCRAWLER/WOLVERINE/STORM IS DEAD!!!!"
Splash page of the next month's issue......
CYCLOPS/NIGHTCRAWLER/WOLVERINE/STORM screaming "ZOMG!!! CYCLOPS/NIGHTCRAWLER/WOLVERINE/STORM IS BREATHING!!! I THOUGHT THEY WERE DEAD!!! WOAH; THAT WAS INTENSE!!!"
CYCLOPS/NIGHTCRAWLER/WOLVERINE/STORM coughs a little bit.....
We had something similar in a 2E game a few months ago... One of party members got toasted with some fire spell... and a round went by when I remembered... SHE DRANK A FIRE RESIST POTION earlier... MUCH earlier in 'real time'... but Game time it was still active!!! So she got her XX amount of HP back and was still alive... though barely.
Either way she got blade barriered into little tiny chunks... Nothing I could do there. I used the last ace up my sleeve ;)
If he had a ring, I'd let him use the ring. And I certainly wouldn't replay anything though. Anyone who gets a retcon like that... just spent the last five rounds rolling ones. It's QUITE easy to be useless for a couple of rounds without having to go back and replay ;)
Hi have something funny for you at moment I am roleplaying in a group I am a ranger, we have a mage a cleric and a monk.
The cleric is moaning as all he seems to be doing is healing and not much fighting.
I wanted to swap my +1 longsword for a +1 Bastard sword which would have given my 2 more poss points of damaged. The party would not let me as they dont want anyone getting more powerful the the rest in group. Or as they put it having a BUFFY in the group and the rest are white hats.
When I was leveling up my char they kept saying u must do stuff that helps party. I would have fought me putting up my fighting ability helped the part.
Following table social etiquette is important.
With that said. My character, my feats, and unless you are communal with your gold, my gold. If they do not like something you did and you are not "being a jerk" it can be handled in character interactions.
And a +! Longsword verses a +1 Bastard Sword is not the difference between Schmuck and God. (Unless there is something really interesting in that build.)
Make me a bit mad also when I was leveling up was not sure if I wanted wolf or leopard and was told you cant have a leopard as the mage has a bird familiar.(went for wold but rather had a Leopard).
O.o
So?
Inform them the leopard is more likely to eat the mage then the bird ;)
Or even the horses... I don't see where THAT is even an issue.
Hi have something funny for you at moment I am roleplaying in a group I am a ranger, we have a mage a cleric and a monk.
The cleric is moaning as all he seems to be doing is healing and not much fighting.
I wanted to swap my +1 longsword for a +1 Bastard sword which would have given my 2 more poss points of damaged. The party would not let me as they dont want anyone getting more powerful the the rest in group. Or as they put it having a BUFFY in the group and the rest are white hats.
When I was leveling up my char they kept saying u must do stuff that helps party. I would have fought me putting up my fighting ability helped the part.Following table social etiquette is important.
With that said. My character, my feats, and unless you are communal with your gold, my gold. If they do not like something you did and you are not "being a jerk" it can be handled in character interactions.
And a +! Longsword verses a +1 Bastard Sword is not the difference between Schmuck and God. (Unless there is something really interesting in that build.)
Seconded. It's YOUR character, not theirs. While it's important to be part of the team, they shouldn't be dictating to you what weapon to use.
totally a GM call, but -11 is serious and I would wait for another opportunity to teach him a lesson on knowing his character.
And I would ask myself how one fireball can drop someone to -11, you deal 1d6 per hit die on damage, he has 1d6 of hit die, das he have bad constitution or really bad rolls and you only 6's?
Anyhow, from a descriptive point of view -1 or -11 is still the same, and I wouldn't redo combat from that point on, but give him a chance and let him fight another day (even if he would have survived on a -11).
They did dictate what I could do an would not shut up when I was leveling up my character with the DM. All the DM did was grin and carry on felt like I had 3 people against me.
Honestly dude, I wouldn't give a damn about what they say. (Yes, I apologize for sounding mean when I say this.)
You build your character the way you want, and if you would rather have a Bastard Sword over a Longsword, then that's your choice. I just hope you understand you need to have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) to use it, unless you want major penalties to hit (and perhaps damage).
If they harp on you, let them harp on you. Unless the DM has a discrepency or restriction against it, then he'll say something, and you have to understand that the DM in your session is Word of God. He has the final say on what you can and can't do, and what rules are enforced or expanded upon, etc.
If anything, I would ask them why they are so against your decision (and they better actually have reasonable arguments). The only reason I'd be against your decision is because you might not have the Weapon Proficiency Feat needed to use the Bastard Sword without penalty. Otherwise, if you want to use that instead, then it's your call.
Maybe she took the ring off when preparing dinner, because she did not want it to get lost. Maybe he takes rings off before going to bed, or during physical workouts. Quite frankly, the character should die and the next one will not forget about their own items!
You build your character the way you want, and if you would rather have a Bastard Sword over a Longsword, then that's your choice. I just hope you understand you need to have Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword) to use it, unless you want major penalties to hit (and perhaps damage).
Only if you want to use it one handed. Using a bastard sword 2 handed is only a 'martial weapon'.
It was a big issue was told if took leopard then would not be getting and heals done on me.
I am playing Archer Ranger so wanted creature more helpful with my char type but could not explain this to party.
You should kindly explain to the mage, cleric and Monk that as the only full BAB class, it's in their best interest to heal you... but that's of course their choice.
;)
I have moments like this all the time, they're common enough in my 20+ years of gaming that I've houseruled it into all my games. I make a point at the beginining of each campaign or game started, regardless of system and I hold everyone to it including myself(as I'm usually the most guilty of it):
1) Any item, spell or pre-existing condition that was forgotten about that would have altered the outcome of a round that was already resolved is ignored, whether positive or negative. No Retcons.
2) Any time a player is killed or otherwise taken out they are examined at the time of 'death' for anything that would have otherwise been forgotten to avoid this rule.
Usually this rule works in the player's favour, as I have tons more information to keep track of when running a game, but every now and then a player slips up. Rule 2 is their safety net and they're always given as much time as they need to either despute or confirm the take out.
If you look at bastard sword says can be used 2 handed as a martial weapon, which my char does have.
Changed this from the +1 longsword I have would mean -1 off my to hit due to me using a buckler but would have given me a possible 2 extra points of damage.Don't think party would last long if I went down as I am best at combat and although the monks not too bad he gets hit a lot.
When i first rolled up my char and said it was going to be a Dwarf Ranger they said that unusual they had never heard of that combination and yet on the first NPC was a dwarf Ranger.
Sounds like you have a truly awful group to play with. 4 "that guys" A cleric who threaten to withhold heals for blackmail purposes toward character build. All wealth is party wealth, and must be spent on what the majority thinks it should be spent on (tyranny of the majority much?). Ranger is party packmule (lol, they are such cheap bastards they boss you around rather than invest in magic storage or NPC porters), not allowed to buy gear you actually want (and martials are gear intensive), not allowed choice in animal companion (for a BS reason, a wolf is just as likely to eat a bird as a leopard), not allowed "outshine" a bunch of 1/2 and 3/4 BAB characters who happen to not even share the same role at all (let the martials do damage! Its not like they can do anything else!) Heck they haven't even heard of a race/class combo that is the ICONIC for that class.
The worst part of course is the GM who just grins at all the crap the party puts you through. Then he also either fudges rolls so his monsters always hit, or forces the party to fight things that are universally CR=APL+1 or more (probably much more from the sound of things).
My advice is to talk things though, and don't back down. If they don't make concessions find a new group. If you can't find a new group find an online one. Online play isn't the same thing, but its often the only option for many players (often refugees from similar situations).
We had a TPK on the very first little bit of Rise of the Runelords this weekend. DM had the town sheriff step in and save our unconscious hides...
We didn't do anything wrong as far as getting in over our heads but it took 6 rounds for 2 PCs, while flanking, to kill ONE goblin...
Our rolls were atrocious and our Cleric was absent.
So he hand waved us to rescued and we continued on. Not the best start to a campaign but we'll get over it. :)