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Some kind of catapult-fired Grappling Hook on a chain?
More serious answer: You need to get your Cavalier onto the back of a Griffon or some such flying beastie. Maybe you can capture one of those fire drakes? In fact, in general: don't try to bring the dragon down to earth, get your whole party into the air.
Advice seen spray-painted on a wall in Shadowrun Seattle:
"Shoot straight, conserve ammo, and never, ever deal with a dragon"
Have you tried forming a battlefield where the dragon cannot fly? Maybe in a corridor of his lair? Def get fresh gear and energy resist pots, scrolls, whatnot.
Just zerg 'em. You'll be fine.
Get your party flying so the meleers can still melee the dragon.
A dragon's air advantages is one of the things that makes such encounters truly devastating. You essentially end up with an armored tank zipping through the air raining fire on your heads, in this case literally.
Countering this advantage is a difficult challenge. I've had the most success in forcing dragons into situations where they cannot make proper use of their wings. If played properly battling a dragon in its lair can eliminate flight, but often presents challenges of its own as you're on the creature's home turf. That said, you should be able to play on the thing's ego and, if you play things smart, lure both away from its lair and into a situation where it cannot take to the air. You'll need to be extremely creative to pull this off, though.
As Wolf indicated, though, if you cannot ground a dragon you have to join it in the air. Additionally, I would throw the book at your paladin and cavalier; at this level of play there is no excuse for not having a reliable ranged weapon. It doesn't need to be as useful as their primary weapons, but they need something.
I must have played too much Shadowrun. Your subject header threw me a bit. At least you didn't ask if you should trust an elf.
-TimD
I think you should catapult-fire the paladin up to the dragon
I long time ago, like AD&D 2nd edition long time, I developed a weapon for taking down dragons.
It was sort of a giant crossbow (I was a half-giant) that fired a bolt that, on impact, expanded into a grappling hook. Attached to it was a chain covered in barbs and weights.
The idea was to keep plugging the dragon with these things so it'd get caught on trees/objects as it flew by and tear the membranes of its wings.
I think you should catapult-fire the paladin up to the dragon
After securing a heavy chain to his ankles.
Just get some ranged weapons for everyone else. That's a pretty large group against 1 dragon and action economy with arrows will hit it hard.
Get some dragon bane arrows and divide them up but give the Ranger the most. 4K gets you 50 Dragon Bane arrows. You have a part of 7. The Paladin, Barbarian, and Cavalier can all shoot 2 arrows per round. The ranger I'm assuming can do 4 arrows per round. That's 10. Then you bard, witch, sorcerer use what ever weapon they can. Spells most likely to make the other 4 hit the dragon better.
You're going to see a critical on average ever 2 rounds for x3 damage. I don't see a lone dragon lasting long against that. In fact I think a smart dragon wouldn't stick around to fight.
Slings.... Proficient for everyone and give your str bonus to damage. If the barbarian is lacking and you won't have to to get him a high strength bow, slings are a good bet.
I agree with the arrow idea, it's a good way of dealing with the dragon. Get also some thistle arrows, with wound weal on them. It'll cause for a constant bleed effect and the poison will cause the enemy to take a heal check penalty and make it hard for them to get healed.
Since dragons are slow, maybe get some Giant wasp poison to slow them down further.
Dragon-slaying ammunition is an excellent investment. If you can convince your players to actually use range weapons, that is...
Enchant the paladin with dragon bane before launching him from a catapult with a heavy chain secured to his ankles.
<kneejerk shadowrun reaction>
...never.
A out the slaying arrow idea.... It's a great idea, but understand that at that level for the dragon, it has a pretty good fort save. The greater slaying arrow is a fort 23 save. The dragon let's say is a +15, that's only a 35% chance they fail. Knocking down their con will help make sure those arrows aremt going to waste. Poisons and some spells though i dont know at your level if its available, to lower the con and thus the fort save for the enemy. But guess what, when they do get hit by those arrows they are going to feel it, ALOT.
For any casters, have someone who isn't the archer who might be using a bow ready an action at any of the casters for when they go to cast their spell. The concentration dc for them will be 10+ spell level + damage deal during casting. Even at a plain masterwork bow for only 1 pt of damage from the d8 with no str bonus, the concentration for a first level spell at minimum is 12. However, that won't be the case here, on avg. the concentration check will be 10 + (4.5 base + +1 enhancement bow + 2 str.) + 2nd level spell= 19 concentration check.
a lot of it depends heavily on your DM.
it seems to me as if you DM is trying to teach a lesson to the other members of the party that the game is not necisarily all about rolling dice and yelling i win.
truth be told a few people may just have to die a few times.
the next big issue is that depending on the scenario you may not have to do it all in one go.
on the first day go in and try to kill off the drakes. dont bother with the dragon just kill some minions and run away.. the dragon may come after you but thats a fun chase that you can hopefully get away with.
next the effreets and so on.
these encounters should earn you at least a level before you face the dragon itself. if your lucky some one has died (maybe a bard learned a lesson) and very hopefully some one roled a shiny new cleric, druid, oracle or other support/healer/utility class.
after that the people above gave great advice for dealing with the dragon itself, try to minimise its flight, try to use ranged combat, protect yourself from fire, make use of dragon bane, prot evil, smite etc. Also... consider spells with no spell resist. like Web, and spells with indirect effects like Wind Wall.
Web brings the dragon to the ground, and a few ell placed wind walls for example completely negate a dradons breath weapon at range so when you call him out you force him to enter your wind wall in order to do battle.... of course it also completely negates your ranged so your melee guys will love it.. the ranger will hate life.
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Tanglefoot Bag
A tanglefoot bag is a small sack filled with tar, resin, and other sticky substances. When you throw a tanglefoot bag at a creature (as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet), the bag comes apart and goo bursts out, entangling the target and then becoming tough and resilient upon exposure to air. An entangled creature takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be glued to the floor, unable to move. Even on a successful save, it can move only at half speed. Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag. A flying creature is not stuck to the floor, but it must make a DC 15 Reflex save or be unable to fly (assuming it uses its wings to fly) and fall to the ground. A tanglefoot bag does not function underwater.A creature that is glued to the floor (or unable to fly) can break free by making a DC 17 Strength check or by dealing 15 points of damage to the goo with a slashing weapon. A creature trying to scrape goo off itself, or another creature assisting, does not need to make an attack roll; hitting the goo is automatic, after which the creature that hit makes a damage roll to see how much of the goo was scraped off. Once free, the creature can move (including flying) at half speed. If the entangled creature attempts to cast a spell, it must make concentration check with a DC of 15 + the spell's level or be unable to cast the spell. The goo becomes brittle and fragile after 2d4 rounds, cracking apart and losing its effectiveness. An application of universal solvent to a stuck creature dissolves the alchemical goo immediately.
It gets it down, he spends his round removing glue, rather than fighting, and your melees get to clobber it.
Huge or larger creatures are unaffected by a tanglefoot bag.
young adult reds are huge.
nice try though.
maybe the GM will allow for multiple hits of tangle foot or a tanglefoot bag of holding which speaws GOBS of the stuff for huge sized creatures. ^_^
Other than getting the other players more familiar with the rules. Make them figure out how to deal with it...it is role playing...
Just remember, dragons have a very big ego, so you could call him out, so to speak.
Screw the rules, they're there only to help play, not to restrict it. Especially when most of the people around the table doesn't know them.
Did you see that Beowulf movie a few years ago? Learn from it.
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Screw the rules, they're there only to help play, not to restrict it. Especially when most of the people around the table doesn't know them.
Did you see that Beowulf movie a few years ago? Learn from it.
@_@! So your suggesting they increase their party size to 30+ and have each character 1v1, double KO, a drake/dragon??? (Go Kamikaze?) :P
Rules are a guideline...not to be thrown aside at a whim. If you discard them then don't forget the baddies don't have to play by them either.
Dragons are supposed to be feared. Sure they have that whole dragon fear thing, but when people pass the save against it they have no fear, as a player. Something I do is increase the damage done by larger creatures by the multiplier for carry wt.
I know it isn't part of the question, but it may help the party think a bit more than what they are.
Red dragons are relatively not that fearsome at range. Pepper the thing with arrows, and let it attack once per round. With all your party members, it shouldn't be too tough.
If you really want to get nasty, read up on the fly rules. The dragon probably has a fly skill of about +10-12, and it uses it's wings to fly.
If you can give it a little dex damage, a penalty to skill checks, and set up some other negatives, such as wind, you might be able to start getting it to fail fly checks. If it fails by 5 or more, it drops like a stone. If you can arrange a collision with another huge creature, that is a DC 25 fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground.
If you can use a large size net, that will mess the dragon up a little.
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Red dragons are relatively not that fearsome at range. Pepper the thing with arrows, and let it attack once per round. With all your party members, it shouldn't be too tough.
If you really want to get nasty, read up on the fly rules. The dragon probably has a fly skill of about +10-12, and it uses it's wings to fly.
If you can give it a little dex damage, a penalty to skill checks, and set up some other negatives, such as wind, you might be able to start getting it to fail fly checks. If it fails by 5 or more, it drops like a stone. If you can arrange a collision with another huge creature, that is a DC 25 fly check to avoid plummeting to the ground.
If you can use a large size net, that will mess the dragon up a little.
Dropping an invisible (using illusions) wall of force in the dragon's flight path always sounds like a good idea, but I have no idea how to calculate the effect.
