The Epidemiology of Pathfinder: Orc Ferocity is Very Very Bad


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Scarab Sages

Reminds me of Warhammer Orks.


faustusnotes wrote:
psionichamster, stringburka, thanks for that info. That's a huge change from D&D3.5, very cool. I hated the save DCs in D&D3.5.

Spell save DCs have been 10 + level + stat bonus since 3.0.

There may be some new feats available (or traits), but the basics numbers are the same.

Shadow Lodge

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Trikk wrote:

Saying that kobolds are better than orcs, because if you throw the orcs into an unfavorable circumstance they lose, is proving my point that the CR should be increased because the kobolds are effectively more of a challenge than they would be under neutral conditions.

Checkmate.

The PCs set up an ambush of their enemies. On the surprise round they launch their attacks and kill every one of their enemies. They get no experience because there was no challenge to the party.

Checkmate.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

They should get XP for that, TOZ, as they were smart enough to work and set up the encounter in their favor.

We should be encouraging that, not discouraging it.

Shadow Lodge

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But it clearly reduced the challenge to nothing.


So you might reduce the effective CR / EL of the encounter by 1 for their advantages. It still could have turned badly if they had bad luck.

Smart tactics should be rewarded in general, though. Especially since the party tends to be in the proactive role, vs. the reactive role. In other words, the PCs are the poor schmucks that have to go into the bad guy's trap filled lair to smoke him out. So in general, they're the ones enduring ambushes. A little turn about is fair play.


HarbinNick wrote:

-In Mir, my homebrew, an Orc is at least a 1st level Barbarian, with heroic stats. Even with trash loot they will kill you, easily. Throw into that they are better smiths than elves and you are looking at LE 6'6" Killing machines. Will saves spells make the day.

-Orcs in Mir are like Orcs in Skyrim. Smart, Feral, and brutal. Much like Klingons. If they were not dicided into tribes they'd easily conquer the world.

Yeah, I'd make very young orcs possibly warriors, but they really fit for barbarians. Lot of my orcs are barbarians, levels 1-3. Once a level 5 solo was against level 3 barb orc, and he charged the orc crit, didn't kill it, the orc crit in turn, pc almost died, and then the orc perished. Such a close fight!


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i'm pretty much with ashiel here, i prefer tougher encounter type games,
and i prefer NPCs/monsters to be played to most of their advantages, and intelligence/cunning as appropriate.


I do feel a bit bad though, if I run something really tough and it puts the pcs in a meat-grinder. I have infinite weapons, tricks and monsters at my disposal, the players running individual pcs do not.

I like to create a tier of enemies, but not such a fan of many lowly mooks. If I create an elite opponent, the players will lose if they fight at its strengths but win if they can turn the situation to their advantage. Those are the good battles I find, and as a dm you can't get s%&!ty if the pcs stomp your monsters and npcs. There are always more dungeons and foes.

Strong orcs are great fun. Orcs also make great archers or throwers with that strength.


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Ravingdork wrote:

They should get XP for that, TOZ, as they were smart enough to work and set up the encounter in their favor.

We should be encouraging that, not discouraging it.

Heh, I'm 99.99% sure TOZ is pulling your chain here. :P


and FYI, for PLAYER CHARACTERS, i actually find the Half-Orc Alt Racial Ability
that trades the 1/day Ferocity/weak Diehard for a +1 Luck bonus to Saves to be a good deal.
i guess there is now a way in the Adv Race Guide to get 'real deal' Diehard' for Half-Orcs at 1st level (along with Endurance) which I would consider alot more valuable, but for PCs (who don't just have to stand up for 1 encounter), the limited Ferocity just isn't as broadly useful as a +1 to Saves all the time... If you have a reliable source of Luck bonuses to Saves that equation changes of course, but I usually don't.

still, for NPCs, even 1/day Ferocity is definitely a great boost.


Actually the way ferocity was written it only works if you have negative hit points. With a literal interpretation of the rules if you do more nonlethal damage than they have hit points they still fall unconcious.


faustusnotes wrote:
psionichamster, stringburka, thanks for that info. That's a huge change from D&D3.5, very cool. I hated the save DCs in D&D3.5.

Saves were the same in 3.5.

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