Drow Riding Bats / Geckos + Cavaliers?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I am planning to havea Darklands campaign, and the Drow section of the ARG was very helpful. I do however have one question about the gecko and bat: if taken as a mount, what shouldI do? Apply the Giant template at first level, then limit the changes at 7th level?and for the gecko, I can't find AC stats for it, just monster stats. Are there any out there, or would I have to homebrew some up?

[Stikye]

well, Cavaliers have animal companions, and animal companions can't have templates, so that idea is out. and if there are no AC stats for it, that idea won't work either. So as far as I can tell, you're in DM hand wave territory.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

... So what would I do to handwave? Hope nobody plays a cavalier?

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

Burn that bridge when you come to it. If someone wants a drow cavalier, and don't want to ride a dashing midnight black stallion, then find a similar AC and reskin it as a giant gecko or bat. The gecko could be a reskin of a dinosaur and the bat a reskin of a Roc perhaps.

[Stikye]

Can't have a bat AC as a cavalier, they are specifically forbidden from having flying mounts. Well, they are allowed a horse, and beastriders are allowed other fun goodies, but still forbidden from flying mounts.

But yeah, pretty much find an animal companion that is similar and call it a gecko.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Stikye wrote:

Can't have a bat AC as a cavalier, they are specifically forbidden from having flying mounts. Well, they are allowed a horse, and beastriders are allowed other fun goodies, but still forbidden from flying mounts.

But yeah, pretty much find an animal companion that is similar and call it a gecko.

I already have plan to have Drow as Pcs, I think a little more golarion homebrew won't hurt. Also, I see no rule explicitly prohibiting flying mounts.

[Deadmanwalking]

Ninjaxenomorph wrote:

I already have plan to have Drow as Pcs, I think a little more golarion homebrew won't hurt. Also, I see no rule explicitly prohibiting flying mounts.

Ordinary Cavaliers have a very short list of available mounts (horse and camel only for Medium characters). The Beast Rider Archetype removes this restriction...but adds one against having flying mounts.

So unless your horse can fly, you are indeed prohibited from flying mounts.

Of course, I'd allw a Bat-riding Drow in a heartbeat, but doing so is solidly a House Rule.

[Stikye]

uhhh, no, You can have flying mounts, as a druid, or ranger.

srd wrote:

The creature must be one that he is capable of riding and is suitable as a mount. A Medium cavalier can select a camel or a horse. A Small cavalier can select a pony or wolf, but can also select a boar or a dog if he is at least 4th level. The GM might approve other animals as suitable mounts.

srd Beast Rider wrote:

At 1st level, a beast rider forms a bond with a strong, loyal companion that permits him to ride it as a mount. This mount functions as a druid's animal companion, using the beast rider’s level as his effective druid level. The animal chosen as a mount must be large enough to carry the beast rider (Medium or Large for a Small character; Large or Huge for a Medium character). The beast rider does not take an armor check penalty on Ride checks while riding his mount. The mount is always considered combat trained, and begins play with Endurance as a bonus feat. A beast rider’s mount does not gain the share spells special ability.

Each time the beast rider increases in level, he can choose to select a new, more impressive mount better suited to his increased power.

Small-sized beast riders can choose a pony or wolf mount at 1st level. At 4th level, a Small beast rider can also choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, boar, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, mastodon, megaloceros, riding dog, giant snapping turtle, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus. At 7th level, he can also choose a dinosaur (deinonychus or velociraptor).

Medium beast riders can choose a camel or horse mount at 1st level. At 4th level, a Medium beast rider can also choose an allosaurus, ankylosaurus, arsinoitherium, aurochs, bison, brachiosaurus, elephant, glyptodon, hippopotamus, lion, mastodon, megaloceros, giant snapping turtle, tiger, triceratops, or tyrannosaurus as his mount. Additional mounts might be available with GM approval.

In addition, a 7th-level or higher Medium beast rider can select any creature whose natural size is Large or Huge, provided that creature is normally available as a Medium-sized animal companion at 7th level (like a bear). To generate statistics for such a mount, apply the following modifications:

Size Large
Ability Scores Str +2, Dex –2, Con +2;
Increase the damage of each of the mount’s natural attacks by one die size.

A beast rider cannot choose a mount that is not capable of bearing his weight, that has fewer than four legs, or that has a fly speed (although the GM may allow mounts with a swim speed in certain environments).

Particular for Beastriders, but anything beyond a camel or horse is already GM permission

[blackbloodtroll]

A single level in Cleric or Inquisitor can give you a Bat mount.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

How is that?

[blackbloodtroll]

Animal Domain.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

There is no problem getting the AC, just getting one a Drow cavalier can use. The problem is that a Dire Bat is medium until 7th level, while there are no stats for a giant gecko.

[blackbloodtroll]

Oh, well here is the Giant Gecko..

[Volkspanzer]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Oh, well here is the Giant Gecko..

If you're curious to know, this is pulled from the Pathfinder Bestiary 3, so it's just a matter of giving a LARGE gecko the modifications a beast rider animal companion benefits from at lvl 7 for a mount that is normally medium by 7th level (+2 STR, -2 DEX, +2 CON, all natural attack damage dice increase by one step).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Blackbloodtroll- Ok, could not find AC stats for the gecko. Only problem is Riding Geckos have the Giant template, not sure how to translate that to AC stats and still be rideable. It would also need darkvision (Something I think was overlooked in the ARG).

Volkspanzer- the cavalier would not need to take the Beast Rider archetype. The Beast Rider rides unusual and exotic creatures. To the Drow, these are pretty normal.

[Volkspanzer]

Ninjaxenomorph wrote:

Volkspanzer- the cavalier would not need to take the Beast Rider archetype. The Beast Rider rides unusual and exotic creatures. To the Drow, these are pretty normal.

I never suggested that they take Beastrider, I merely suggested that you refer to the Beastrider archetype ruling on making an AC that is normally Medium at 7th level (which a Gecko definitely is by that point) into a large AC (as a drow, a medium humanoid, cannot ride a medium-sized gecko). Just use that ruling rather than using the Giant Template.

Giant template - increases size by one category, +4 STR and CON, -2 DEX, +3 to existing natural armor, damage dice of natural attacks increase by one step.

Beastrider ruling - increases size from medium to large, +2 STR and CON, -2 DEX, damage dice of natural attacks increase by one step.

Of these two modifications, which seems to be a bit more balanced in terms of what you would allow your player(s)? That's what you've got to work with, in my opinion.

[Samasboy1]

I know this thread is kinda old, but I was considering the same subject and thought I would just add my thoughts here.

Was looking at Cavalier Mount options for drow and duergar.

Drow are noted as riding lizards, duergar for riding giant bugs.

Giant Stag Beetle (use Giant Beetle companion, 7th Beastmaster)
Giant Chameleon (4th)
Riding Gecko (using Giant Gecko companion, 7th Beastmaster)
Giant Scorpion (7th)
Giant Slug (7th)
Giant Black Widow Spider (use Giant Spider companion, 7th Beastmaster)
Ogre Spider (use Giant Spider companion, 7th Beastmaster)

A Giant Stag Beetle (L) would be a good choice for duergar. Using the Giant Beetle stats (S, M at 4th) then applying the Beastrider modification to become L.

The Giant Chameleon (M at 1st, L at 4th) could be a good mount for drow.

I had not considered using Giant Gecko (max out at M size) until reading Vokspanzer's suggestion. So you have a Riding Gecko companion, using the Giant Gecko stats, then apply the Beastrider's modification as the Riding Gecko is a normally L sized creature.

The Giant Scorpion starts M, and grows to L at 7th.

The Giant Slug starts M, and grows to L at 7th. Not the most desirable Mount given it's slow speed, but still a possibility.

A Giant Black Widow Spider (L) or Ogre Spider (H) are candidates for the Beastmaster Cavalier. Using the Giant Spider companion (S, M at 4th), then applying the Beastrider's modification to become L.

Any other suggestions for Darklands appropriate mounts? Any way to get such a mount a 1st rather than 4th or 7th?

For Drow Cavaliers, the Orders of the Beast (ISC), Cockatrice, Eclipse, Flame, and Vengeance seem most appropriate; while Eclipse, Hammer, and Vengeance most likely for duergar.