Headband of intellect (linguistic) and bonus languages


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

If a wear a headband of intellect that has linguistics as it's attached skill, do I get bonus languages after wearing it for 24 hours?

And if so, do I select the languages when I create it, 20 languages in order for the 20 points of skill you get with level 20 when wearing it?

Or do I select the languages after wearing it for 24 hours?

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My best guess would be that the list of languages (and order of pickup) would be set at creation.

So, after wearing it for 24 hours, you would get linguistics skill and a number of new languages as per the list created with the headband according to your level.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

As far as I know, this is undefined in the rules. So unless I missed something, it would default back to GM's discretion.

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Jiggy wrote:
As far as I know, this is undefined in the rules. So unless I missed something, it would default back to GM's discretion.

I agree, which is why mine is the "best guess" I have. It seems to follow the rest of the rules for that headband (with skills being per-chosen).

Sczarni

If you ask me, you wouldn't get them since you didn't invest time in it actually but your GM is the judge.

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Malag wrote:
If you ask me, you wouldn't get them since you didn't invest time in it actually but your GM is the judge.

Strangely enough, there's no time requirement involved in learning a language, just that a rank in Linguistics gets you one. So barring any houserules (given this isn't the houserules section), an INT headband set to Linguistics would give you languages - the only question is which ones.


Jiggy wrote:
Malag wrote:
If you ask me, you wouldn't get them since you didn't invest time in it actually but your GM is the judge.

Strangely enough, there's no time requirement involved in learning a language, just that a rank in Linguistics gets you one. So barring any houserules (given this isn't the houserules section), an INT headband set to Linguistics would give you languages - the only question is which ones.

Personally, a magic item that lets someone speak new languages makes a lot more sense than suddenly learning Celestial after stabbing an Orc to level up.

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Chengar Qordath wrote:
Jiggy wrote:
Malag wrote:
If you ask me, you wouldn't get them since you didn't invest time in it actually but your GM is the judge.

Strangely enough, there's no time requirement involved in learning a language, just that a rank in Linguistics gets you one. So barring any houserules (given this isn't the houserules section), an INT headband set to Linguistics would give you languages - the only question is which ones.

Personally, a magic item that lets someone speak new languages makes a lot more sense than suddenly learning Celestial after stabbing an Orc to level up.

Maybe the orc picked up Celestial to swear in, and he was doing that a lot as you stabbed him?

Joking of course.


Well real-world speaking nothing about the headbands and skills make much sense. why single languages out?

"hey neat a new headband. I'm smarter.
and.. holy COW! I know all there is to know about religion! and undead! and.. ooh I can ride a horse now!"

I mean really- is that any more silly than picking up a few languages from strapping on a headband?

While its somewhat vague- in that they didn't single any one skill out for special treatment in the rules- i think the intent is clear that the creator sets the skills and such and that the possessor is stuck with them. So if the creator tossed linquistics on the item they'd also get to choose which languages. The person who wound up with the item later would be stuck with that selection- even if they already had a language in question.

To me an issue would be:
My witch (for example) has 8 ranks in Linguistics. For that, they also have 8 extra languages. if I then put on ahandband of int +2 with ling- would i get languages that I don't already have that the headband does? or would the fact that the skillpoint soverlap mean that i get no benefit overall? :)

-S


Happler wrote:

My best guess would be that the list of languages (and order of pickup) would be set at creation.

So, after wearing it for 24 hours, you would get linguistics skill and a number of new languages as per the list created with the headband according to your level.

To me, making an exhaustive list of every possible language, both known and unknown is a daunting task.

There is no limit for skill points. If a 1,000 HD creature puts on this headband, it would have 1,000 ranks in Linguistics. Thats a lot of languages to pick when you make the headband.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

The fun option would be to make it random each time they put the headband on. They might end up with a language they didn't even know existed.

"Whoa, what language were you speaking in just now?"

"Uh... I'm not sure. Kinda pretty, though."


What if a tengu puts it on?


Bertious wrote:
What if a tengu puts it on?

**Mindblown!!**

Edit: What if a Tengu made it?
**Double mind blown!**


The quick and dirty solution to this - to me anyways - is for the creator of the item to select one bonus language that the wearer is granted, and to skip the "one language per rank" idea.


Ciaran Barnes wrote:
The quick and dirty solution to this - to me anyways - is for the creator of the item to select one bonus language that the wearer is granted, and to skip the "one language per rank" idea.

I can't believe I never thought of this


ouch. totally screwed for linguistics headbands in that game :(

If you wanted to randomly do one just go down the language list in the book and have them be in order. The list in Skills for it has 20 (or more) languages which is as many as you need in a core game anyway.

-S

Sczarni

Personally, I see it as: the magic item gives you the skill. The skill lets you do what you want with it. Therefore, and first of all, if you have 5 ranks in Linguistics, you keep the 5 languages you learned and continue to learn them up to the new rank allowed by the headband. This serves TWO purposes: it lets you use whatever languages your skill would have allowed (as opposed to all those saying "replace it with ones picked at creation"); it is RAW and RAW only say that you get skill ranks = Character Level... it doesn't say you have to decide right then that the +4 headband with Linguistics and Ride means you only get "these languages" and can only Ride "horses". You can still ride other mounts with checks/penalties, why limit the linguistics?

ps. at level 20 with a +2 int, you get 21 languages (that's all of them)... and your linguistics DC for unknown is a base 31 take 10... ergo you now them all anyway... What would be fun is if you ran it the other way and threw Druidic on it!


maouse wrote:

Personally, I see it as: the magic item gives you the skill. The skill lets you do what you want with it. Therefore, and first of all, if you have 5 ranks in Linguistics, you keep the 5 languages you learned and continue to learn them up to the new rank allowed by the headband. This serves TWO purposes: it lets you use whatever languages your skill would have allowed (as opposed to all those saying "replace it with ones picked at creation"); it is RAW and RAW only say that you get skill ranks = Character Level... it doesn't say you have to decide right then that the +4 headband with Linguistics and Ride means you only get "these languages" and can only Ride "horses". You can still ride other mounts with checks/penalties, why limit the linguistics?

ps. at level 20 with a +2 int, you get 21 languages (that's all of them)... and your linguistics DC for unknown is a base 31 take 10... ergo you now them all anyway... What would be fun is if you ran it the other way and threw Druidic on it!

So, if you get to choose the languages when you put on the headband, you could just take off and put it back on to learn whatever language you need at the moment?

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Maybe you instantly learn the next new language you hear spoken, or see written, at each new level.


For that matter, do you get a bonus language for the int increase?


I personally rule it this way.

First, a few pointers on headbands and skills.

A headband has one skill per +1 of bonus it provides.

A headband grants, after wearing it for 24 hours, ranks equal to HD in the specified skill.

A headband that duplicates a skill you already have ranks in completely replaces those skill points.

Ergo,
A headband with linguistics should do the following :

A) Provide HD ranks in Linguistics.
B) Overwrite any ranks in linguistics you already have (and erase any languages you already learned from Linguistics for as long as you wear it!).
C) Provide you HD languages in a fixed order (for however many languages you would have for HD points of Linguistics if it's not HD, for example, 2x for Tengu, or I think there's a rogue talent that gives extra languages for each rank in linguistics).
D) Have a pre-defined list of languages and the order they are granted. I'd personally as GM only put 20 or 30 on it, and add more if it became required.


deuxhero wrote:
For that matter, do you get a bonus language for the int increase?

Dev's have never chimed in. I personally grant it and add it in, since it makes it easier if I'm making characters higher than 4 who put points into INT.

Sovereign Court

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deuxhero wrote:
For that matter, do you get a bonus language for the int increase?

I've always granted new languages with Int increases as well, but someone pointed out that Int does say:

"You apply your character's Intelligence modifier to:
• The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game."

That seems to suggest it determines initial languages, but not further. Gaining 2 points of Int, to me at least, does seem like the perfect time to learn a new language, though.


I think that's a hold over copy/paste from 3.5 Mosaic.

The devs (JJ, JB, and SKR) have all stated in multiple forums that making INT skill points retroactive was to make it so that any character built at Level N was exactly the same as the same character built at 1 and leveled up to N.

Given that design goal, not granting languages for INT boost would be a huge hole in the goal. As, a character created at level N who put 2 bonus points into INT would have one language more compared to a character created at 1 and leveled up to N.


Pathfinder Pawns, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

For FAQing: Does a headband of vast intellect (or similar intelligence increasing item) with the Linguistics skill grant additional languages known? What about a headband that doesn't have Linguistics; does it grant as many as three bonus languages? Or are bonus languages only gains at character creation (regardless of future increases to intelligence?


Ravingdork wrote:
For FAQing: Does a headband of vast intellect (or similar intelligence increasing item) with the Linguistics skill grant additional languages known? What about a headband that doesn't have Linguistics; does it grant as many as three bonus languages? Or are bonus languages only gains at character creation (regardless of future increases to intelligence?

At least half of this is already FAQ'd.

FAQ wrote:


Intelligence: If my Intelligence modifier increases, can I select another bonus language?
Yes. For example, if your Int is 13 and you reach level 4 and apply your ability score increase to Int, this increases your Int bonus from +1 to +2, which grants you another bonus language.
Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks).

—Pathfinder Design Team, 06/05/13

I see no reason why it wouldn't grant languages if you take the linguistics skill if it's granting languages for the INT bonus. You have an actual rank in linguistics, for whatever that's worth. Note that some races get 2 languages per rank.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

the FAQ already mentions the bonus language from gaining Int... unfortunately i don't have time to hunt right now, but i believe it says that the bonus language(s) from Int increases should be set at item creation- which makes me believe the same would be true of languages gained from linguistics?

edit: here's the FAQ entry i mentioned. there is no RAW for it right now, but (personally) i would rule that you can't gain racial bonus languages (like from Aasimar truespeaker, or Tengu gifted linguist) nor penalties (like Dwarven xenophobic), since the languages are really being granted by the item (though that is completely arbitrary and, like i said, there are no RAW for it right now)

re-edit: i was rushing so much that i only just now noticed that i got ninja'd on the FAQ post, lol


nate lange wrote:
the FAQ already mentions the bonus language from gaining Int... unfortunately i don't have time to hunt right now, but i believe it says that the bonus language(s) from Int increases should be set at item creation- which makes me believe the same would be true of languages gained from linguistics?

Yep, that's my understanding. I know every time someone wants one of these things, I dread that they'll ask for on with linguistics. As I'll then have to list out 20 or 30 languages in the order they are gained. :)

Don't forget though, it supersedes your skills, so if the character already has linguistics, it'll actually LOSE any languages it got from it's own ranks in Linguistics and then gain new ones from Linguistics from the headband.


mdt wrote:
nate lange wrote:
the FAQ already mentions the bonus language from gaining Int... unfortunately i don't have time to hunt right now, but i believe it says that the bonus language(s) from Int increases should be set at item creation- which makes me believe the same would be true of languages gained from linguistics?

Yep, that's my understanding. I know every time someone wants one of these things, I dread that they'll ask for on with linguistics. As I'll then have to list out 20 or 30 languages in the order they are gained. :)

Don't forget though, it supersedes your skills, so if the character already has linguistics, it'll actually LOSE any languages it got from it's own ranks in Linguistics and then gain new ones from Linguistics from the headband.

Where are you seeing in rules that it supersedes existing skills? I know the skill ranks don't stack, but that is not quite the same.

If existing languages from linguistics get replaced, it creates the problem that I think the developers are trying to avoid, figuring out which ones were gained fron linguistics vs original vs natural attribute gain. That could be next to impossible with high level NPCs.


I believe that the headband of intellect states that the associated skill must either be implemented at creation and if found in a random treasure pile be randomly picked at that time. And all this remains at the approval of the GM off course.
I always wondered how it was possible for a character to gain constitution and gain all HP according to level and gain intellect and gain only the skillpoints you will gain on from that point in time. As a GM I would not allow a skill to magically appear from zero to current level spontaneously, but some extra time schooling/training would remedy the situation. Same thing goes for the extra language you would have had at the start of the character with your current int.

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Umbranus wrote:
Or do I select the languages after wearing it for 24 hours?

The bonus skill ranks and any languages you gain are set in stone when the item is crafted and won't change after 24 hours of wearing.


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Wow. You know the FAQ is doing well when they start putting out answers before the infamous Ravingdork can even ask the question.


GreenMandar wrote:


Where are you seeing in rules that it supersedes existing skills? I know the skill ranks don't stack, but that is not quite the same.
If existing languages from linguistics get replaced, it creates the problem that I think the developers are trying to avoid, figuring out which ones were gained fron linguistics vs original vs natural attribute gain. That could be next to impossible with high level NPCs.

I don't have the link in front of me, it was one of SKR's posts back when he was doing the rules answers all by himself. Basically, the headband adds N skill points, and those skill points are autospent. Since they must be spent, your native ranks are unused.

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