Soulgambit, just wanted to add to the chorus--really nice positive creative stuff. I'm playing a monk in the Council of Thieves AP, and I imagine I'll be picking up a bane (Outsiders) weapon at some point. (Not that I know what is coming up, but I have this sneaking suspicion that we'll meet infernal fiends. :D) I have the added advantage of a good DM and creative team players, so I think things will go well even when we get into the levels where a monk can..let's say...encounter difficulty.
If I want to play a melee oriented monk I usually just play a druid, summoner, or an alchemist. However if it's ranged I'll play a zen archer.
I'll just leave these here for those interested in the upper end of Monk/Druid survivability and damage.
Monk / Druid Lvl10
Male Samsaran Druid (Menhir Savant) 7 Monk (Hungry Ghost Monk, Master of Many Styles) 3
LN Huge Humanoid
Init +0; Senses Low-Light Vision, Scent; Perception +17
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Defense
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AC 28, touch 17, flat-footed 27 (+1 armor, -2 size, +10 natural, +2 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 110 (10d8+30)
Fort +11, Ref +7, Will +14
Defensive Abilities Evasion
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Offense
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Speed 60 ft.
Melee Bite (Beast Shape III - Allosaurus) +8 (4d6+4/x2) and
. . Claw x2 (Beast Shape III - Allosaurus) +8 x2 (3d6+4/x2) and
. . Rake (2 claws) (Beast Shape III - Allosaurus) +8 (3d6+4/x2) and
. . Unarmed Strike +15/+10 (6d8+27/6d8+15 x2)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks Pounce
Spell-Like Abilities Comprehend Languages (1/day), Deathwatch (1/day), Stabilize (1/day)
Druid Spells Prepared (CL 9, 13 melee touch, 5 ranged touch):
4 (2/day) Aspect of the Stag, Holy Sword (x2)
3 (3/day) Magic Fang, Greater (DC 17), Haste (DC 17), Strong Jaw (x2) (DC 17)
2 (4/day) Barkskin (x2), Animal Aspect (x2), Chameleon Stride
1 (5/day) Longstrider, Entangle (x2) (DC 15), Bristle (x2) (DC 15), Mount
0 (at will) Read Magic, Create Water, Detect Magic, Guidance
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Statistics
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Str 17/27, Dex 14/10, Con 12/16, Int 10, Wis 14/18, Cha 12
Base Atk +7; CMB +18; CMD 36
Feats Crane Style, Crane Wing, Dodge, Dragon Ferocity +4, 1d4+8 rds, Dragon Style, Druid Weapon Proficiencies, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Natural Spell, Punishing Kick (Push 5') (4/day) (DC 19), Shaping Focus +3
Traits Magical Knack (Druid), Quain Martial Artist
Skills Acrobatics +13, Fly -4, Knowledge (nature) +13, Knowledge (planes) +5, Perception +17, Perform (dance) +6, Stealth -8, Survival +17
Languages Druidic, Samsaran, Tien
SQ AC Bonus +6, Druid Domain: Plains, Fast Movement (+10'), Fuse Style (2 styles), Lifebound, Maneuver Training, Metamagic Rod, Extend, Lesser, Migrating Herd, Mystic Past Life (Druid), Place Magic (7/day), Pounce (1/day), Resist Nature's Lure, Spirit Sense, Spontaneous Casting, Still Mind, Unarmed Strike (1d10), Wild Shape (4/day), Wild Shape (Beast Shape III: Diminutive - Huge animal), Wild Shape (Elemental Body III: Small - Large elemental), Wild Shape (Plant Shape II: Small - Large plant creature)
Other Gear Belt of Giant Strength, +4, Bracers of Armor, +1, Cloak of Resistance, +2, Headband of Inspired Wisdom, +4, Metamagic Rod, Extend, Lesser, Ring of Protection, +2, Robe, Monk's
Spells Applied
Longstrider
Bears Endurance
Greater Magic Fang (Unarmed Strike)
Strong Jaw
Barkskin
[ ...Halfling Underfoot Adept throwing net at huge demon... ]
While nets are a nice weapon (although I'm not envisioning them in the hands of a monk - more likely in the hands of a gladiator - but that's just me), unfortunately they are only effective against max 1 size category difference, so the halfling may net only medium, small or tiny creatures but not huge demons.
So, I've been mulling over DR, among other things. An Oil of Bless Weapon is only 50gp and lasts a minute, and takes care of almost all the monk's DR problems.
Bless weapon provides a bypass to DR/magic (which the monk already has) and DR/good. So this actually only helps against ONE of the monk's DR problems. One is not the same as 'most' by a very, very long way. There's also silver, cold iron, adamantine (monks gain it way late in the game), evil and chaotic - and slashing and piercing.
Edit: and that assumes you have a round to buff.
Late to the party, but for the OP here's my rough build
Half-Orc Monk (Sacred Mountain) [could be any race with flexible +2 stat]
20 Point buy
17 Str = 7 points +2 racial
14 Dex = 5 points
14 Con = 5 points
10 Int = 0 points
14 Wis = 5 points
08 Cha =-2 points
Feats
1 Snapping Turtle Style
1 Improved Grapple (monk bonus)
2 Dodge (monk bonus)
3 Power Attack
4 +1 Str, start using power attack
5 ___
6 Deflect Arrows
7 ___
8 +1 to whatever you feel you need in prep for 12
9 ___
10 Medusa's Wrath
Low-level tactics
1) Is the target a caster or two-handed weapon user? If no, proceed to 3. If yes, is it next to you? If yes, proceed to 4. If no, is it within your move speed? If yes, proceed to 2. If no, proceed to 3.
2) Grapple it, to both debuff and immobilize. proceed to 4 on your next turn.
3) Charge it with a Greataxe. Proceed to 4 on your next turn.
4) Is your target still alive and next to you? If yes, proceed to 5. If no, return to 1.
5) Unleash Flurry of Blows. Return to 4.
I also love Cold-Iron shuriken with alchemical silver blanching.
Oh, for unarmed damage consider the wanderer.Where is the wanderer described?
It's an Archetype for the Monk, but you have to be Human to take it. It was released in the Advanced Race Guide, so it won't be up on the PRD yet.
@Dabbler: Carry weapons of the appropriate metallic types if it bothers you.
...while everyone else's +3 weapon zips right through it...of course the monk could carry a +3 weapon, but it would suck like most monk weapons do, or a +3 AoMF...except it would have to wait until later levels.
How many enemies do you actually fight with DR/evil or DR/chaotic?
As often as you fight DR/lawful. Any DR/Alignment is ignored by a +5 weapon, but again the monk is a good couple of levels behind anyone else getting such, or has to rely on a 2nd rate weapon.
More importantly, how often does this happen when you don't have divine caster capable of laying Align Weapon on your unarmed strike?
Ooh look! The "monk is ok if the casters cast extra buffs on him!" argument again, as bad now as when it was first suggested.
I've also posted several builds that can punch through DR 10/-- on a fairly reliable basis and do acceptable DPR, hitting the target CMD/AC.
...not as often as other combat classes, and dying if they are sneezed on due to crappy AC...in other words, still not able to pull their weight. Your 'fairly reliable' is in fact not all that often.
I've posted various tactics and things the Monk can do when they are absolutely outclassed...
...all of which are situational, sadly.
...and ways for the Monk to literally multiply their team's damage. I'm truly not sure what else you want at this point...
I'm serious. What, exactly, do you want?
A monk that can function in it's stated role without a degree in system mastery or a tax in buffs on the party casters would suit me fine.
Sorry, but it doesn't change the fact that I was in a situation this week where my monk - well designed, solid build, great attribute scores, good feat selection - still couldn't do dick. Not because of bad luck, bad tactics, or any such, but because the monk's design didn't give him any option that had a cat in hell's chance of working. It was a fight, I had a combat class, and could do nothing save provide flanking in the final round when our foe stopped flapping about.
Another build that lulz at DR. May be playing a Tetori soonish and have been trying out builds.
I've been trying, but failing, to figure out how the grapple CMB of 28 is achieved. Could you please provide a full breakdown of values and sources that contribute to get that?
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Ooh look! The "monk is ok if the casters cast extra buffs on him!" argument again, as bad now as when it was first suggested.
Why was it OK for the argument "the party can cast buffs on the _________" in the "fighters can't fly" thread, but here it's suddenly full of derision and scorn??
Its ridiculous to decry the Monk because of supposed DR issues and then immediately deride someone for coming up with ways around it.
Ooh look! The "monk is ok if the casters cast extra buffs on him!" argument again, as bad now as when it was first suggested.Why was it OK for the argument "the party can cast buffs on the _________" in the "fighters can't fly" thread, but here it's suddenly full of derision and scorn??
Because no humanoids can fly (with very rare exceptions), so you would need a spell or item for any of the party regardless of who they were. In a situation where any character would need caster support to be effective, then yes, you need caster support, it's what they are for: to help you do the job you can do in exceptional circumstances. In a situation where everyone else can do their job without caster support, in normal circumstances, but the monk cannot, you have a problem with the monk.
Its ridiculous to decry the Monk because of supposed DR issues and then immediately deride someone for coming up with ways around it.
Because it wasn't a way around it, it was a way of transferring the monk's weaknesses onto another character for them to deal with by having them spend time buffing you when they should be doing their job.
Could you please take your Monk argument to private messages or another damned thread? I'd like to not see this one derailed even further.
Sorry Tels! I'll cut the threadjack.
So here are the tricks:
1: Monastic legacy is a feat that counts half the levels in a non-monk class as monk levels for determining unarmed damage. If you have 10 levels in a non-monk class, thats 5 effective monk levels. Hence, druid 20 is worth monk 5.
2: Shaping focus is a feat that counts up to 4 non-druid levels as druid levels for the purpose of determining wild shape. A 8 druid/4 monk character with shaping focus counts as a 12 druid for what wildshape can do.
3: Ah right the vital strike line of feats, well using the same tactics that you did in that post, this character can deal 48d8 as as standard action, but I'd rather pounce and use the janni rush style + the dragon ferocity style feat to deal:
24d8 (+3x str bonus) + 12d8 (+1.5x str bonus) + 12d8 (+1.5x str bonus) + 3x natural attacks (+ 0.5x str bonus) as a full attack action.
prototype00
(you'll have to be a Master of Many Styles and give up flurry to do this, but since you can't flurry and use natural attacks, its a worthwhile trade)
prototype00 I was just wondering as to what form you are taking as a druid to get the 24d8 + 12d8+ 12d8+ 3x natural attacks? Interested in trying this type of build out so was curious as to what you were shape shifting into to see if there were any similar alternatives.
prototype00 I was just wondering as to what form you are taking as a druid to get the 24d8 + 12d8+ 12d8+ 3x natural attacks? Interested in trying this type of build out so was curious as to what you were shape shifting into to see if there were any similar alternatives.
The shapes for a str Monk/Druid are:
1.) Allosaurus (Huge size, pounce, 2x Claw and bite, qualifies for planar wild shape as an animal)
2.) Dire Tiger (Large size, pounce, 2x Claw and bite, qualifies for planar wild shape)
3.) Deionychus (Medium size, pounce, see above)
For all sorts of size situations (say you're in a cavern or a tunnel and need a smaller than huge size). The damage mentioned in your post is based of the Allosaurus damage, with janni style modifying the first hit in a charge.
Of course you can also take the form of elementals (huge) which is nice because they have better stat bonuses than the animal wildshapes, but don't qualify for planar wild shape.
The tendriculos plant wild shape is basically just good for regeneration if you need it.
prototype00
New to the website and maybe I'm missing the point but couldn't you get around DR with a Zen Archer monk (with both special arrows and flurry with clustered shot feat)? The monk's maneuverability can get him (or her) somewhere the enemy probably can't get to (with melee attacks) and they still have unarmed attacks if they do close (plus point blank master if you want to keep using the bow).
Indeed, yes, you can do that with a Zen Archer, but not everyone wants to play a Zen Archer. Some people want to play a guy that runs around practically naked, leaps into a group of enemies, and unleashes a hail of punches, kicks and throws etc, to take out their enemies.
I myself was the person that introduced the power of archery in Pathfinder to my group of players, however, I've never played an Archer in Pathfinder. I simply made a couple builds, and it sparked off from there with people playing Archers.
As it stands, I, personally, will probably never play an Archer as I think it's just a little bit too powerful of a character concept. So it is unlikely I will ever play a Zen Archer.
But if you have any tactic for any archetype, please share them. So people don't want to play Jackie Chan, nor do they want to play a Zen Archer, maybe they want to play a wise old master that gives advice and teaches others how to be better. Maybe they want to be someone that sacrifices everything to help the party succeed.
The point of this thread is to share any tips, tricks, tactics, loopholes etc, on how to play your Monk to your enjoyment.
Well I think you could still run around naked, kicking and punching as a zen archer. You lose unarmed flurry for arrow flurry but you're only making one attack during your leap anyways.
My current favorite monk build is Maneuver Master with Spinning Throw. You can take it as early as 3rd level when you're still fighting plenty of orcs and goblins. Starting at 8th you can throw multiple people a round. For those who say the monk can't deal damage equal to that of a fighter, that's fine. Let my monk throw the enemy prone at your fighter's feet and we'll finish him off in no time!
PS Again, I'm new to posting in these forums but has anyone pointed out the absurdity of the argument: The monk is not as good at fighting as the FIGHTER?