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In a different thread
However, I think that an Advanced Race Guide 2 is something that could definitely happen in the future. Hopefully other 3PP will do something similar with their own home-made races (*waits expectantly for the latest Genius Guide on the topic* :-P).
So, I am already partway through a few Advanced Options books built around races, and apparently I'm being pretty predictable in doing so. Just as the previous Advanced Options books built off the APG, these would build off the ARG.
Anything people are just dying to see?
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Pipers.
In my defense, it wasn't TOO far-fetched; after all, both Super Genius Games and Rite Publishing had Gunslinger stuff out a week or two after Ultimate Combat! Plus you consistently come out with stuff every week, so it seemed like a pretty logical assumption!
So yeah, I'm going to count my original post as "something I'm dying to see."
I'll expand my request:
I'd like more racial options, expanded favoured class options, and racial archetypes just as in the ARG. For the Pipers, I'd like the most a "drunken bard" archetype giving a bard some alchemist abilities, maybe for a bard worshiping Cayden Cailean.
Unfortunately, The Doctor refuses to let me hitch a ride into the future to June 20th, so I have nothing to offer up yet.
I'd love to hear more about Asterion, mostly stuff like racial class archetypes.
Maybe some of the old alluria publishing remarkable races. I know some 3pp (I can't remember who, unfortunately) recently released a book on races that included some of them. I'm a big fan of those and one of my players is entobian right now. You might be concerned about a lack of interest, but if you reprinted their basic information with it you could definitely pull in more people. You're the biggest 3pp out there, whatever you do will generate interest.
I know some 3pp (I can't remember who, unfortunately) recently released a book on races that included some of them.
That was us with Monstrous Races: The Third Party
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What would the scope of such a product be? Could it provide expanded(and alternate!) flavor for the Featured and Uncommon Races, bringing them up to par with the Core Races?
If so that could provide a lot of material the original ARG entries didn't have, which could really help those races that didn't get a lot of range to work with.(orcs)
Are new Race Builder features on or off the table? I'm still poring over that section in between reading through the book in its entirety, but it's looking like I still can't actually build my homebrew races with those rules.
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What would the scope of such a product be?
In general we put a pretty tight focus on each of our products, but this might be a whole product line. Since this is a thread for people to request things, feel free to request anything, and I'll see where patron interest, writer ability, and company scheduling can overlap.
Could it provide expanded(and alternate!) flavor for the Featured and Uncommon Races, bringing them up to par with the Core Races?
If so that could provide a lot of material the original ARG entries didn't have, which could really help those races that didn't get a lot of range to work with.(orcs)
Certainly expanded and alternate flavor for featured and uncommon races are on the table. I'm much less likely to tackle something that has recent 3pp support, but I'm open to anything. Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.
Are new Race Builder features on or off the table? I'm still poring over that section in between reading through the book in its entirety, but it's looking like I still can't actually build my homebrew races with those rules.
For this thread, everything is still on the table. :) Especially if there are specific features you'd like to see in a Race Builder that don't exist yet, this is a great place to mention them.
I would *love* to see expansions of the race Builder, and more options for non-core races. maybe they could be grouped (like alternate powers for aquatic races, archetypes for elemental races, spells for outsider races, and so on).
I think it would be awesome to see some not!Mass Effect, or not!Halo's Covenant races for populating a different planet. Fantasy space travel and aliens with magic have become a new thing with me.
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Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.
Are new Race Builder features on or off the table? I'm still poring over that section in between reading through the book in its entirety, but it's looking like I still can't actually build my homebrew races with those rules.For this thread, everything is still on the table. :) Especially if there are specific features you'd like to see in a Race Builder that don't exist yet, this is a great place to mention them.
This sounds really exciting.
I'll have to come back to this thread tonight to have a fuller idea of what is or isn't actually in the current Builder, but some things that stand out:
Construct/Plant/even-Ooze/______ types that are friendlier to Standard Races. Perhaps something that represents a "watered down" version of those types, so that the flavor of being a living clockwork person or a plant person or whatever can be managed without having to bump the race into Advanced or Monstrous territory.
Actually, a lot of options to keep certain flavors of beings in Standard Race territory would be great. That's the problem I'm having making my homebrew four-armed race work with the current Builder: the four-armed mechanics are powerful or simply tagged as being available only to Monstrous types.
(there's also something to be said for an ensouled Construct race option that can be raised, even if it requires different raising methods or additional steps to do so, since most construct player races that people think of(Warforged, Gearforged, etc.) do have souls)
Body-type support for merfolk or cecaelia-like races would be more than welcome too. Similarly, options for half-serpentine folks(humanoid from the waist-up, serpentine from the waist down).
For races that are "locked-in" shapeshifters, as in people that have maybe two forms they can shift between, an ability to do just that that would be impractical to use in combat or other situations could present that flavor to Standard Races.
Unfortunately, The Doctor refuses to let me hitch a ride into the future to June 20th, so I have nothing to offer up yet.
I apologize for this previous cranky post. It's been tough listening to how awesome the ARG is on Paizo.com and Facebook from everyone who seems to already have it, and I have to wait (im)patiently for 3:00 AM Eastern on Wednesday morning to get mine.
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As for ideas... what about fleshing out the sample/example races (or at least the more popular ones) from the race construction section, like the Kasatha? They are (apparently) basically blank stat blocks, just ready for seasoning/flavor with history, culture, society, environmental niches, plot hooks, racial equipment, racially-developed spells, and maybe an archetype or two.
I'd also be interested in more racial building options, kinda like what you did for the summoner.
Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.
OK, a +1 vote for Mikaze's non-inherently-evil orcs. And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
Edit: Now that I think about it some more, the ARG Playtest included breakdowns on races that normally have racial HD, like lizardfolk and gnolls. What about fleshing out 0 HD variations of some of them?
For races that are "locked-in" shapeshifters, as in people that have maybe two forms they can shift between, an ability to do just that that would be impractical to use in combat or other situations could present that flavor to Standard Races.
Spoiler:One of my homebrew races has a natural physique similar to the Cecaelia. But when they want to go on land and mingle with landdwellers, they can shift their lower bodies into reasonably functional legs, but the process is a bit painful and takes at least a minute going either way. Even then they're dependant on specialized magical equipment to stay healthy out of the water, and they're as slow as dwarves minus the stability in their landwalker form.
Heh heh heh, I really wish Wayfinder #7 was already out.
Mikaze: If you want, I can PaizoMail you the mechanic/write-up I used.
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And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
GWRARGLEBARGLEYES. This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping for in the ARG and this clearly expresses it in actual words. :)
And gah...as if the teasing of Wayfinder #7 in various threads hasn't made me want it enough alrea
Seriously, thanks! As long as it's no trouble or anything!
edit- Check out the avatars for the posters liking the idea of non-evil flavor for "monstrous" races. :D
Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.OK, a +1 vote for Mikaze's non-inherently-evil orcs. And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
Edit: Now that I think about it some more, the ARG Playtest included breakdowns on races that normally have racial HD, like lizardfolk and gnolls. What about fleshing out 0 HD variations of some of them?
+1
Love these ideas!
Seriously, thanks! As long as it's no trouble or anything!
No trouble, PM sent! :)
I wonder what Sam has simmering on the burners?
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^I^^Good gravy there's a lot they could do there.
Some ability to give races the flavor of being faint telepaths or empaths would be awesome too, even as the latent sort. (I guess empathic ability could be represented with a free Skill Focus: Sense Motive, but it doesn't feel that flavorful put that way)
Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.OK, a +1 vote for Mikaze's non-inherently-evil orcs. And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
Edit: Now that I think about it some more, the ARG Playtest included breakdowns on races that normally have racial HD, like lizardfolk and gnolls. What about fleshing out 0 HD variations of some of them?
Yes to all of that. I'm especially missing Lizardfolk options.
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So the kistune have the potential to be my favorite race. If only they had a Super Genius to give them more shiny things ....
*wink wink nudge nudge*
A feat to give tieflings functional wings (aasimars have it, why not tieflings?)
I suddenly find myself very short for time right now, so I'll try to keep my post-ARG thoughts brief:
- There definitely seems to be some strong demand among some of the ARG-thread commenters (and myself) that the kobold is extremely weak as a PC choice. Perhaps a slightly tweaked kobold offshoot/variant (like the blues among the goblins) would be welcomed? It could be a result of recessive genes, either from a distant draconic ancestor or from a tougher kobold progenitor? Which would be an interesting hook... before recorded times, maybe the kobolds were a stronger race and were weakened, either accidentally by failed draconic matings or deliberately by another/several PC race who forsaw that the stronger kobolds would outbreed & outcompete? I'll see if I can finish tweaking an example kobold variant and post it later.
- I'd also like to see a 0 HD gnoll ("ardwolf" gnoll?) and lizardfolk races (and there seem to be others asking for this too), but I'd probably tweak them both slightly.
- I was knocking about tweaking the nagaji, but realized the vishkanyas are almost exactly what I wanted (other than the +2 in Charisma instead of Intelligence, but no biggee). With Paizo probably steering clear of Vudra for the foreseeable future, they aren't going to see much fleshing out. I'm aware of the East Indian mythos, but that seemed closer to where Paizo would likely go. Instead, I was mulling over the vishkanyas as taking on a king snake/king cobra role to the nagas, serpentfolk, nagaji, and other scaled races... either as literal hunters or as seeking to curtail/destroy the scaled empires.
- Purple Duck already beat us to the punch on a draconic/dragonblooded humanoid race. :)
I've got more ideas for entirely new races, but I'll have to save them for another post... or as a future product pitch. ;)
Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.OK, a +1 vote for Mikaze's non-inherently-evil orcs. And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
I'd like to see that, but only if it is a well done effort to make the 'good versions' believable and not simply a symptom of the "Drizzt Syndrome" where they are trying to be different for the sake of it. Not every good version of an evil race has to be a 90's anti-hero.
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So, I am already partway through a few Advanced Options books built around races, and apparently I'm being pretty predictable in doing so. Just as the previous Advanced Options books built off the APG, these would build off the ARG.
Anything people are just dying to see?
Many of us (myself included) are very disappointed in the many poorly priced options in the race builder (example: +2 to a skill costs 2, while you can get bigger bonuses to a skill for that price via other options such as fixed feat). Unfortunately there are many examples of this; that the devs chose not the change after we pointed them out in the "What is a feat worth" thread from the playtest.
As a result, I'm trying to recalibrate the thing, and when I have something more substantial recalibrated, it may go up for review in houserules/3pp. we shall see.
Personally I'd like to *Not* see new racebuilder stuff, unless the racebuilder is recalibrated first; unless your new racebuilder stuff adds in new (redundant, but differently priced) options at different costs to fix the various pricing problems (As pointed out in the errata thread, and the Race Builder Criticisms thread) present, or presents a derivative system with rebalanced prices which it then uses instead of relying on the one in the ARG, or something.
I do like seeing racial archetypes, racial feats, racial traits, racial background writeups, racial spells, and pre-build NPCs of various races, and cool whole new races, however.
Purple Duck already beat us to the punch on a draconic/dragonblooded humanoid race. :)
We actually had that written and edited two months ago, I was just waiting for Michael Scotta's art for it.
I'd also like to see a 0 HD gnoll ("ardwolf" gnoll?) and lizardfolk races (and there seem to be others asking for this too), but I'd probably tweak them both slightly.
Although Monstrous Races 2 has a 0-HD Lizardman and a 0-HD Sahaughin in it.
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I'd like to see that, but only if it is a well done effort to make the 'good versions' believable and not simply a symptom of the "Drizzt Syndrome" where they are trying to be different for the sake of it. Not every good version of an evil race has to be a 90's anti-hero.Not-necessarily-evil orcs are certainly an option.OK, a +1 vote for Mikaze's non-inherently-evil orcs. And I know this will generate groans and swears in several messageboard readers, but maybe a book (books?) for both GMs and players on how to incorporate orcs, goblins/blues, hobgoblins, kobolds, etc. as non-inherently-evil races? I realize that this wouldn't be a style of play for everyone, but it seems there are a sizable minority of us who do like this shades-of-grey approach to roleplaying.
I'd wager that's what everyone calling for alternate good or neutral cultures for those races wants, especially since much of the time we're stuck with the choice of "horrifically and irredeemably evil" or "lone rebel against his/her own kind".
It's a pretty sad irony that for all the complaining about Drizzt Syndrome and the lauding of Pathfinder for working to prevent it, the current model pushed by Golarion and now the ARG forces players to play exactly that role.
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Hmm. In the case of Drow, I believe the model is "Drow are always evil" in that they are evil not on a cultural level, but intrinsic to their being. Particularly because it says somewhere that evil elves sometimes spontaneously turn into drow. And therefore if you make a drow who is neutral or good, I would expect them to be elves with drow parents. Because Pathfinder.
That doesn't go for the other races though. I could easily see neutral gnolls, orcs, goblins, etc.
Half-Construct is too broad. There is a world of difference between say a Borg or Six-Million Dollar Person and the heavily-artificial 3.x Half-Golem. So, just as there are fiends, half-fiends, and tieflings, why not constructs, half-constructs, and a "planetouched"/partially-artificial humanoid?
Just spit-balling here... Perhaps a new variant of Half-Construct Lite type that loses both:
- Half-constructs cannot be raised or resurrected.
- Half-constructs do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless
they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of
these activities.
In return, it is:
- Healed by positive energy and harmed by negative energy
- Has Resist: positive 2, negative 2
- Half-constructs do breathe, eat, and sleep.
The construct/artificial components make the creature race more resistant to negative channeling/energy but also gain less benefit to positive channeling/healing; this resistance cannot be dropped by the creature. However, the race lacks enough artificial components to gain benefit from mending and similar effects.
(If the race is instead some kind of "necromantic cyborg", then allow it to be healed by negative and hurt by positive, but keep the resistance 2 to both positive and negative energy types.)
Yeah, I didn't figure you were that superhumanly fast. :)Purple Duck already beat us to the punch on a draconic/dragonblooded humanoid race. :)We actually had that written and edited two months ago, I was just waiting for Michael Scotta's art for it.
Have to check that out.Although Monstrous Races 2 has a 0-HD Lizardman and a 0-HD Sahaughin in it.I'd also like to see a 0 HD gnoll ("ardwolf" gnoll?) and lizardfolk races (and there seem to be others asking for this too), but I'd probably tweak them both slightly.
There are 0hd Gnolls and Lizardfolk in the ARG, already detailed & Built.
I wouldn't mind seeing some fluff and archetypes and feats for them. Gnolls are kind of awesome.
I just thought the 0-HD gnolls (and lizardmen) as presented in the ARG could use a little more tweaking.
1. I would like to see Goblin options directed towards casters/intellectuals, much like the urban barbarian concept. I love more goblin material, but it's all the same alchemist/fire drab. I'd like to see something take advantage of their greediness, tricksy-ness, even if it has to be limited to an Illusionist. I think the Boggle was in the right direction. Goblins are weak and brash, but not stupid or unwise.
2. If I can have an anti-comment, tieflings have been done to death, can we maybe focus on some of the fun other 3PP races that were developed, maybe even outside of SGG?
3. I think I get the most kick out of race specific spells/feats. I would look forward to this.
Cheers.
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While not exactly what I was planning when I started this thread, I do have this coming soon. :D
That's cool too. But you would likely sell a lot of copies of the things we're putting down too. Hopefully it'll be the next release.
What I would love to see are either constructs/undead that can be raised or spells you can raise constructs/undead with at similar levels than those for normal beings.
Hmmm, what about a "Size Matters" or "Big Things, Small Packages" product? There are some existing races that might lend themselves to a change in size... like Small catfolk and tengu, or Medium ratfolk and grippli. And with those changes, maybe add/replace their racial qualities with new/modified variants more appropriate for their size?
And while on the subject, maybe the catfolk & ratfolk could have different racial qualities (tribes?) that would also make some more cat-/rat-like and others more human-like (or more halfling-like)? (Which would also conveniently explain/"No Prize" the differences between the Bestiary 3 and ARG artwork.)
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I definitely think some of the SGG races need a second treatment. Since the pdf's were generally short and had three races apiece, there wasn't a lot of "extras". A spell here, a feat there. I'd love to see "spotlight" pdfs containing alternate racial traits, favored class bonuses, racial feats, equipment etc for:
Pipers
Asterion
Aellar
All of which are variations on races I already had in my homebrew, but didn't have stats for until SGG saved me a ton of effort.
Half-dragons or half-dragon template
Ditto werecreatures.
Half-dragons or half-dragon template
Ditto werecreatures.
+1 to the Half-dragons or half-dragon templates
and if you could do something like the Draconic template from 3.5
Is there somewhere to begin sharing the sort of backstory details on kasatha that might flesh them out? I have them in the bloodsworn vale wastes on inland sea but what histories are out there already? I've done some research into desert cultures to flesh out my characters, but i may be way off the precident. Any help on this one?