|
I'm going to be playing in a Pathfinder game soon and I want to play a Magus. I've been thinking about a few builds and I was wondering if you guys have any builds that you would like to share? We are starting at first level and it's a 20 point buy.
Also, this thread can be used to post Magus builds that people may want to use as NPC's or villains.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Blackblade / Kensai works well. Shadow is correct, the first couple levels are rough but they tend to go fast in my experience.
My dexterity Magus has the highest AC in our group and rarely gets hit because of int and dex to AC.
Blackblade / Kensai works well. Shadow is correct, the first couple levels are rough but they tend to go fast in my experience.
I dislike adding Blackbade to Kensai for two reasons:
1. You don't get an Arcana until 6th level2. You can't add abilities to your weapon.
Kensai gets a free exotic, so I like to go Aldori Dueling Sword. This has the added benefit of a trait in Kingmaker that gives you +1 to hit if you use an Aldori, so it's like Weapon Focus for the cost of a Trait. Then where you would take Weapon Focus, you can take Extra Traits instead, there are tons of good ones for the Kensai.
My dexterity Magus has the highest AC in our group and rarely gets hit because of int and dex to AC.
At 6th level with buffs, but AC hits 30 (+4 DEX, +5 INT, +4 Mage Armor, +4 Shield spell, +1 Ioun Stone, +2 Cat's Grace).
My AC without casting any spells is 22. The downside to this, is that my flatfooted AC is 12. If you don't win the init, look out. The other problem is your lose your INT to AC if you aren't using your favored weapon, so if you need to switch to a ranged weapon, your AC takes a pretty big hit. Luckily Kensai gives pretty big bonuses to Init, but it's something to think about.
Dervish Dancer with a Scimitar will give you much higher damage in the begnning (DEX to damage), but once you can afford an Agile weapon, the Aldori averages 1 more point of damage per hit.
I am still working on trying to figure out how I want to build a Magus. Wish it was easier to use certain weapons. I don't really want to do the scimitar and have actually thought about just going with an axe. I understand the benefits of going for crits because of spell crits for possibly huge amounts. Makes it feel that either go for crits or take away from the power of the class.
To make up for thinking I might go with a Blackblade that at 3 takes Exotic Weapon Proficiency Urumi. I know might not be the best plan but at least gets me something that I think would be interesting. Read enough posts about how people feel about it but I just view it as a metal scaled whip. Going to have to sit a while and plan it out as I have no good ideas. I do know that I have a decent crit range and Spell Specialization is probably a good idea. If was a home campaign then would be asking about if I could use Prehensile Whip.
Jodokai-
I use an agile Aldori blade myself. My party is small (3) and I am effectively the main tank. My AC is 22 as well.
I'm pretty careful to get buffs in when I can so it is usually a bit higher. Blink and/or Mirror Image make a huge difference in taking hits since they totally negate damage a lot of the time.
This is how I would build it:
Elf Kensai
Str 12 BAB: +0
Dex 18 AC: 15 ( 10 base, +4 DEX, +1 INT)/ Touch: 15 / Flatfooted: 10
Con 12 HP: 10
Int 18 Fort: +3
Wis 10 Ref: +4
Chr 7 Will: +2
Weapon Finesse
Gifted Adept (shocking grasp), Focused Mind (or Kingmaker Sword Lord if GM allows)
The two compared, the one above will do a lot more damage for levels 1 and 2, if the Kensai went Scimitar, that changes somewhat at at level 3 (Dervish Dance), but will still have a huge bonus with Shocking Grasp, but that's ony 1 or 2 attacks per day. The benefits are for levels 2-4 your armor class is automatically going to increase regardless of what loot you get or how much money the GM hands out.
If it's a long term game, I would stay away from spell specialization, at 10th level it becames useless for Shocking Grasp. Shocking Grasp is going to top out at 10d6 with out without this feat. You can always switch it to something else I suppose, but I don't think it's worth it.
That's not actually true, because while you're gaining 1 point of damage on average, you're giving up a point of to hit and to damage by not gaining the enhancement bonus. (At least until you're able to max out enhancement bonuses.) And you're up a feat so you can take weapon focus to even out the bonuses. (Funny how things balance out so well, isn't it?)
That's a good point.
I'm going to be playing in a Pathfinder game soon and I want to play a Magus. I've been thinking about a few builds and I was wondering if you guys have any builds that you would like to share?
I recommend looking at Walter's Guide to the Magus.
The disadvantages in the kensai build are that it is a 23 point build compared to the strength's build at 20 points, has lower hit points, lower saving throws (for the important saving throws at least), does less damage, has fewer spells per day (significantly fewer since it gives up spell recall), and its spells, until level 10 or so do significantly less damage.
Gah you're right I scewed up the CON, INT would be 17, 18 at 4th.
As far as spells, you have 1 less 1st and 2nd, the same amount of 3rd and 4th (due to higher INT) and 1 less 5th and 6th.
Some of the hard to price advantages is cost of gear. A Kensai doesn't have to buy or improve armor meaning they may be able to get that Agile Sword before the standard can add their +2. Then again the Kensai also has to buy Pearls of Power not needed by the standard.
I wouldn't say what the Kensai gives up balances out, but I've always been a fan of DEX based fighters and versatility. The Kensai really combines these well, and after watching Hellboy 2, how can you not want to make an Elf Kensai named Nuada? :)
|
I built a Blackblade Kensai with an Urumi, and it's a solid build, so far. Sure, it's not optimized, but it's stylish and fun.
20-point buy, went STR 14, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 10. Picked Elf for the race, ending up with 16 in DEX and INT, and a 12 in CON.
No, it's not got massive hp. No, it's not got massive STR bonus to damage. No, it's not using Weapon Finesse. No, it doesn't have any penalties to anything. Yes, I have a bad case of Negative Attribute Aversion.
Getting to wear a sword as a belt? C'mon, that's nifty! I've got Combat Expertise at 1st to make up for the less-than-stellar AC, and will be picking up Improved Feint of some of its buddies to capitalize on the Distraction quality of the urumi. Attacking flat-footed ACs helps to close the to-hit gap.
Anywho, that's my bit of input. Not optimized in the least. I also have a paladin that *gasp* gave up his spellcasting and became a Warrior of the Holy Light. Take that establishment!
|
IF it's Intensified, Shocking Grasp can climb up to 15d6 at the cost of a one level bump.This is how I would build it:
Elf Kensai
Str 12 BAB: +0
Dex 18 AC: 15 ( 10 base, +4 DEX, +1 INT)/ Touch: 15 / Flatfooted: 10
Con 12 HP: 10
Int 18 Fort: +3
Wis 10 Ref: +4
Chr 7 Will: +2Weapon Finesse
Gifted Adept (shocking grasp), Focused Mind (or Kingmaker Sword Lord if GM allows)The two compared, the one above will do a lot more damage for levels 1 and 2, if the Kensai went Scimitar, that changes somewhat at at level 3 (Dervish Dance), but will still have a huge bonus with Shocking Grasp, but that's ony 1 or 2 attacks per day. The benefits are for levels 2-4 your armor class is automatically going to increase regardless of what loot you get or how much money the GM hands out.
If it's a long term game, I would stay away from spell specialization, at 10th level it becames useless for Shocking Grasp. Shocking Grasp is going to top out at 10d6 with out without this feat. You can always switch it to something else I suppose, but I don't think it's worth it.
Uhmm, no it can't.
Shocking Grasp has a hard limit of 5D6 damage, and intensified changes it to a hard limit of 10D6. Nothing else in the game I know of allows that hard limit to be changed again.
Why can't you add abilities via Arcane Bond? At third level you can give it a +1 enhancement bump, at 4th or 5th, when it goes to +2, you have the choice of adding to the Plus value or adding +2 of special qualities.
Right and that takes your spell pool. You can never have a +1 sword and then stack your spell pool on top of that. You can't pay gold to enchant your weapon which would give your pool more versatility.
Why can't you add abilities via Arcane Bond? At third level you can give it a +1 enhancement bump, at 4th or 5th, when it goes to +2, you have the choice of adding to the Plus value or adding +2 of special qualities.Right and that takes your spell pool. You can never have a +1 sword and then stack your spell pool on top of that. You can't pay gold to enchant your weapon which would give your pool more versatility.
Table 1-3 for the Black Blade shows the blades enhancement bonus progression. So you do get the enhancement and you only lose your 3rd level arcana and some points in your pool. Exactly where do you get that you lose everything that you said? I can see why someone would say you can't enchant as it becomes a +5 weapon as you progress but there are ways to still add benefits to it.
Table 1-3 for the Black Blade shows the blades enhancement bonus progression. So you do get the enhancement and you only lose your 3rd level arcana and some points in your pool. Exactly where do you get that you lose everything that you said? I can see why someone would say you can't enchant as it becomes a +5 weapon as you progress but there are ways to still add benefits to it.
Wow, I guess I'm not making myself clear, let me try again:
Q: A normal magus gets arcana at 3rd, 6th, and 9th (etc.)right? So if you give up your 3rd level arcana, when do you get your first arcana?A: 6th Level
Conclusion: If you give up your 3rd level arcana, you don't get an arcana until 6th level.
A normal 6th level Magus can take a Masterwork longsword, spend around 2000gp to make it a +1 longsword. Then when that Magus is in battle, he can use a point from his Arcane Pool to add +2 enhancement to the +1 longsword to make it a +3 Longsword or use it to make his +1 longsword a +1 Flaming Burst longsword.
A 6th level Bladebound Magus has his black blade. Once he gets into combat he can spend a point from his Arcane Pool to make his Black blade +2, or make it +1 Flaming. There is no spending 2000gp to make the black blade a +1 weapon. It will never be +1 without using the Arcane Pool.
How combat heavy is the campaign? How much magical loot does the DM usually hand out? Does he customize it for the group? How big is the group and will you have to wait for your turn to get loot? Do you have a ton of melee and can sneak into melee after the fighter, warrior, or other heavy armor big mean looking guy gets the enemies attention? Do you have a rogue a dex build with disable device might help some traps.
There are a few reasons I liked the blackblade and went Kensai and Dervish Dance archetypes.
1. If you like the scimitar and its 18-20 crit rate and can stomach 2 levels of being subpar melee (Which can be counteracted with some decent 0-1 lvl spells and go by rather quikly)you will be much more powerful at 3 and beyong as long as there aren't a TON of fights per day (Even then you are still doing just as much damage as others just not bursting as much). Also check with your DM about the Arcane Mark spell... some DMs think it is a cheap 2 attack, but some think it was put there just for this class. It does 0 damage, but allows you the free touch attack with your sword. SO basically you get 2 melee attacks at the spell combat's -2.
2. You can take weapon focus to get a +1 to hit with the scimitar(I always say whats the point of swinging if you dont hit so the more +'s the better). This is if your DM doesnt tailor loot for each person in a campaign. You fight a ton of beasts what are the chances they will have your specific weapon just lying around to loot after the combat. Some DMs do hook you up others run premaid APs and the loot is what you get. No point in having Weapon Focus Greataxe if the first loot you get is a +1 Keen bastard sword. BlackBlade eliminates that problem.
3. The Blackblade lvls up with you. So you will NEVER have to buy a new weapon. While your party members are off spending most of their money trying to find a blacksmith to sell them a +2 weapon (only once you get back in town) you will have it when you level up. Also with your arcane pool points you can actually make it better than its bonus. Say you have 4-5 arcane points at level 4 so for 4 minutes or basically 4 fights you can ADD a +1 to your already +1 weapon. Then upon reaching lvl 5 you can add effects such as Keen, flaming, or Bane etc. for arcane points. Nothing like having a +2 weapon suddenly become +4 Keen for 2 arcane points... My lvl 5 magus attacks at +11 with a 18-20 crit. for 2 arcane points I would attack at +13 with a 15-20 crit and since your touch spells crit with your weapon crit, a 30% chance to deal 10d6 shocking grasp is a great deal. (also look into magical lineage trait to reduce 1 lvl of a meta-spell and intensify (add 1 for this meta spell, but negated by magical lineage) shocking grasp so you can get up to 10d-6 crit at 20d6 for a lvl 1 spell! There are other traits that increase caster level so you can do this before lvl 10 as others have suggested.)
4. As a Magus Kensai your two major stats are Int for spells and AC and Dex for hit, damage, and AC. They work very well together with the dervish dance Kensai and you never suffer AC penalties or get slowed by movement or spell failure (which you would eventually lose, but the class eliminates it from even being a worry for you) You might not have armor, but with a +3 INT bonus to AC it will equal out. Also since you aren't using your money to buy a weapon or armor you can use it to get a belt of dex and headband of INT for AC bumps or if your DM customs loot he can hook you up with this instead of weapons and armor so now you have a great magic weapon, bonus AC, and better spells stats or attacks and damage.
5. I don't see the point in a familiar. I see the blackblade as much more powerful. As a magus you want to be in melee range so your can spell combat and deliver the touch spells through your blade... what benefits does the familiar provide that would be better than a lvl'n magic weapon that you can tweak at will? The flare might be better, but will a raven's +3 appraise be better than +2 keen weapon? You can use the familiar to attack but it uses your BAB with its attack stat which is not going to be better than you magic weapon and dex mod.
6. The one thing I do wish I hadn't given up is the extra spells, but I am patient enough to know to save my big burst spells for the "Boss" fights and use the smaller ones to chip the normal enemies down like the rest of the group. This also gets me attacked less and I don't blast like a wizard or sorcerer. Getting attacked less means staying alive more and I like that concept. It would be nice to be able to spell recall, but with 3-4 shockings grasps (and getting more each lvl) as lvl 1 spells if you know how to pace yourself and use arcane mark (if allowed) you can steadily put out 10 (1d6+4 dex +1 weapon more if you min max and get magic items) damage a hit or possible 20 damage a round with spell combat... without shocking grasp. (Another great magic Item I found to counter the loss of spells is Ring of Wizardry lvl 1: it doubles your lvl 1 spells... as intensified shocking grasp is a lvl 1 spell once you can afford it you can basically have 5-10 shocking grasps a day. Who needs spell recall?)
So depending on playstyle and group make up a character who doesn't need to be fighting over weapon & armor, and can possibly get other loot (belts, headbands, cloaks, rings, etc.) or can go un-noticed for a round or two of combat while the fighter or barbarian gets in the enemies face to take the hits, and then can sneak in and drop a 5-10D6 +weapon damage attack to kill or severly cripple an enemy is great for me. I like to go a lil un-noticed in a fight until I see what the fight looks like and then show up with a giant attack that says hey you should have been looking at me. I play a gnome with attention issues and a temper when overlooked and underestimated :)
There are a ton of factors when making a character. You also don't want to outpace your party. You do not want to be the only guy doing the killing while everyone else is getting bored cause you are so much better than everyone else. If it is a low magic campaign you might get OP, but that might be a problem for the DM to handle exp if there aren't a ton of combats and you can shocking grasp everything and completly dismantle the entire fight while others are buffing and only getting to attack 1-2 tymes while you are one shotting things. I think the class and build w/ archetypes are pretty great you get some of the bursts of a wizard with less of the versatility. It all has its pros and cons... for me it has more Pros and I am very much enjoying it. I hope this helps.
A 6th level Bladebound Magus has his black blade. Once he gets into combat he can spend a point from his Arcane Pool to make his Black blade +2, or make it +1 Flaming. There is no spending 2000gp to make the black blade a +1 weapon. It will never be +1 without using the Arcane Pool.
At lvl 5 the Blackblade lvls up to a +2 Weapon and the enhancement provided goes up to a +2. So, spending an arcane pool point at lvl 6 would make it +4 or +2 flaming without the gold cost. Also you can add both flaming and +2 for an 2 points.
If the weapon isn't magical you have to add at least a +1 to make it magical and then can add an effect(ex. flaming). Thus, you can add both and they do stack. If it is the last fight of the day and you have 5 points left you could put a +2 (1pt.) Keen (1pt.) flaming (1pt.) flaming burst (2 pt.)for a total of 8 weapon enhancment bonuses at the cost of 5 arcane points.
The only restrictions are that the enhancements cant be stacked on each other to use 2 arcane points to add +2 and another +2... all the others seem to be legit as long as they dont pass the +10 weapon enhancement bonus. I could be wrong but don't see anything on it in the arcane pool section or OGC website.
No one likes a str. staff magus with a trip build ? you can control the battle field nicely .
At lvl 5 the Blackblade lvls up to a +2 Weapon and the enhancement provided goes up to a +2. So, spending an arcane pool point at lvl 6 would make it +4 or +2 flaming without the gold cost. Also you can add both flaming and +2 for an 2 points.
Hmm you may be right, there's something that made me think it didn't work that way, but can't seem to find it or remember what it was now.
One thing I find fun is building a magus around combat maneuvers: I don't know if it's what you'd call optimized, but between spell combat, the maneuver magus arcana (spend a point of your pool to get BaB = Lvl for one combat maneuver check) and the general ability to cast spells, you get a devastating melee controller truly unlike any other.
I had some fun with this, man.
1) Cast Slow
2) Trip slowed target. His attempt to get up is a move action, and all he can do because he is slowed. This provokes several attacks of opportunity.
3) Repeat Step 2.
4) Sprinkle in spell combat attack actions and magus pool buffed attack actions as needed.
If you play like this you won't be a particularly high damage character but by god you'll be a team player.
|
|
How combat heavy is the campaign? How much magical loot does the DM usually hand out? Does he customize it for the group? How big is the group and will you have to wait for your turn to get loot? Do you have a ton of melee and can sneak into melee after the fighter, warrior, or other heavy armor big mean looking guy gets the enemies attention? Do you have a rogue a dex build with disable device might help some traps.
There are a few reasons I liked the blackblade and went Kensai and Dervish Dance archetypes.
1. If you like the scimitar and its 18-20 crit rate and can stomach 2 levels of being subpar melee (Which can be counteracted with some decent 0-1 lvl spells and go by rather quikly)you will be much more powerful at 3 and beyong as long as there aren't a TON of fights per day (Even then you are still doing just as much damage as others just not bursting as much). Also check with your DM about the Arcane Mark spell... some DMs think it is a cheap 2 attack, but some think it was put there just for this class. It does 0 damage, but allows you the free touch attack with your sword. SO basically you get 2 melee attacks at the spell combat's -2.
2. You can take weapon focus to get a +1 to hit with the scimitar(I always say whats the point of swinging if you dont hit so the more +'s the better). This is if your DM doesnt tailor loot for each person in a campaign. You fight a ton of beasts what are the chances they will have your specific weapon just lying around to loot after the combat. Some DMs do hook you up others run premaid APs and the loot is what you get. No point in having Weapon Focus Greataxe if the first loot you get is a +1 Keen bastard sword. BlackBlade eliminates that problem.
3. The Blackblade lvls up with you. So you will NEVER have to buy a new weapon. While your party members are off spending most of their money trying to find a blacksmith to sell them a +2 weapon (only once you get back in town) you will have it when you level up. Also with your arcane pool points you can actually...
In response to your first few questions.
1: This group is a new group. (Not to Pathfinder)
2: Nobody knows what the other players are going to play.
3: I'm assuming it's going to be a homebrew game so I don't know the amount of loot.
bump
Here is a Magus build for you.
I've also been thinking about a variant with four arms using a Fauchard.
2-hand reach with 18-20/x2, secondary attacks and a free hand for spell combat.
*Note: this is a concept build, not an optimized build.
My Bladebound/Paladin build is a concept build as well.
As you wish.
The disclaimer is there so people don't ask "Why did you take X ability instead of Y. Y is clearly a superiour choice"
I know some of my choices make no sense from an optimization viewpoint.
Can a magical weapon be used as a Magus' blackblade?
No, there is a topic where someone from Pathfinder is answering any question and he states that Blackblades can't be enchanted.
I personally enjoy that they can't be as it makes for an interesting weapon and allows you to spend money on other things than improving your weapon's power.
The threads I have read say that you can combine Magus pool with enchantment bonus and the Blackblade has different abilities in his pool that work. The thing to remember is that the Blackblade has small pool and since not magical probably want to be careful to retain a least one point in it's pool so it can't be broken.
Just remember as I see all the time that the person in charge can overrule anything and say only certain things can combine.
No one likes a str. staff magus with a trip build ? you can control the battle field nicely .Can you share some information about this? It's very relevant to a character I'm planning.
Here's a link with a couple of good Staff Magus builds, as well as some lively discussion:
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz3zxy?Where-are-the-staff-magus-builds
