
WrathOfGod |
Hi, playing in a new campaign soon. Pathfinder only, and the books allowed beyond the Players Guide are the APG, UM, and UC. No 3.5.
Paladins look amazing, so I wanted to play a Half-Orc Paladin. I've looked around a lot and I think it's pretty good, but let me know if there are any improvements I can make. Starting at level 1, 18 point buy, and we houseruled that you can only lower one stat below 10.
Havok, Half-Orc Paladin. Oath of Vengeance.
Sacred Tatoo alternate racial feature.
Rock climber alternate racial feature.
Deft dodger trait.
Magical Knack trait.
Str:16(18)
Dex:10
Con:12
Int:-7
Wis:10
Cha:16
Feat: Power Attack
I'll be using a Falchion, for the crit feats later. I thought about using a Bardiche, for the reach, but you can't attack opponents adjacent, and I could always take Lunge later.
I also plan on taking Sacred Servant at level 4, and using the Travel Domain.
My biggest concern is what feats to take. I'm not sure if the cleave feats are worth it, and maybe I should just take the Vital Strike line. Any suggestions for me guys?

Turgan |

They don't just look amazing, they are. Looks good to me right now. If you take this oath, don't you usually go for "Extra Lay on Hands" every now an then?
Sacred Servant combined with an oath of vengeance does not make much sense to me (but maybe you have a special plan). One feature giving you extra smite, the other feature taking it away...
If you want be a fighting machine with the travel domain, play an inquisitor.
Don't take Vital Strike, don't take Cleave. Vital Strike is already meh all by itself, Cleave is much too situational.
Don't worry too much about your future feats. In my eyes, the class is already optimized all by itself. So you could take "Skill Focus: Profession (Shoemaker)" for all it's worth.
Weapon Focus, maybe Quick Draw (sooner or later you will need a bow to smite some opponents), leadership (e. g. cleric buddy with the good & healing domains). Improved Critical & Critical Focus.
Int 7: Looks like one skill point per level, you really want to do that?

WrathOfGod |
Well normally I wouldn't like Sacred Servant, but it's main weakness (less smites) is offset by the Oath of V, so it's worth taking. And yes, I do plan on taking 1-2 extra lay on hand feats in my career. The idea was to play a Paladin of St.Cuthbert (3.5 Diety I loved, LN), who was all about Justice and Vengeance (for background reasons I have yet to write).
So wow Vital Strike AND Cleave suck? Well I won't worry about feats as much then, and power attack away. :p
Leadership is banned btw, and is in almost every game I've ever played in my 10 years.
As for skill points, I figured I only need diplomacy. I asked myself if taking a -2 to Will was worth 1 more skill. I said no lol. Unless I'm missing something.
I appreciate the feedback btw.

Dabbler |

No, you need Perception (everyone needs Perception) and you need Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (nobility) too for knowing your enemies and knowing your allies.
That Intelligence will cripple you, in the long term, if you are not careful. On the flip side, you don't need mega-strength: a paladin gets a stack of damage and hit bonuses from smite, so you don't need to compete so hard in the muscles stakes.

Corlindale |
I also think 7 int is very low, but this is coming from a total skill point fanatic.
Normally I'd never dump wisdom, but Paladin is actually an exception, because even with a -2 he'll get an excellent will save overall with Divine Grace thrown into the mix.
Sacred Servant is a nice archetype, and Oath of Vengeance helps cover its main weakness. You may miss celestial bond for your weapon, though, that's a very nice feature. But the holy symbol bond can be turned into extra smites, so I guess it's ok overall :-)
Keep in mind that the way Smite Evil works encourages builds with many attacks - like archery or two-weapon fighting. It's still quite powerful with a regular weapon - and works nicely with a crit build too - but if you truly want optimization the way to get damage is through a high number of attacks.
There are many nice feats you could take. I'm a fan of Unsanctioned Knowledge myself, the ability to access some select spells from other lists can really come in handy later on. There's also the one that lets you resurrect people for free by expending LoH attempts. Both are pretty late-game, though. Extra LoH is a solid choice too.

Jon Otaguro 428 |
There is a feat in ultimate magic called unsanctioned knowledge which is pretty sweet, but requires a 13INT. It allows you to pick one 1st, one 2nd, 1 3rd, and 1 4th level spell from bard, cleric, inquisitor or oracle spell lists.
You want divine power, heroism, good hope, etc, you can get it through this feat.

Dabbler |

Unsanctioned Knowledge does look pretty nice. If I switch Int and Wis I could get the 13 int with a +4 Headband someday.
Any way to get Perception as a class skill?
There may be a trait somewhere that does it. Otherwise just get ranks in it. Seriously, if you can get rid of the 7, do so. I don't know if you are using dice rolls or point buy, but if the latter lose the 7.

Social Inquisitor |
No, you need Perception (everyone needs Perception) and you need Knowledge (religion) and Knowledge (nobility) too for knowing your enemies and knowing your allies.
That Intelligence will cripple you, in the long term, if you are not careful. On the flip side, you don't need mega-strength: a paladin gets a stack of damage and hit bonuses from smite, so you don't need to compete so hard in the muscles stakes.
+1 to this.
Not a bad build, but I have some points you might want to consider.
Splint mail is good but its +5 AC is all the ac you have since you wont have a shield: making your AC 15 and Touch AC 10... .
Assuming you dont roll for HP you only have 11HP at first lvl(12 if you dont put your Favored class bonus into SP, which I would do to get you perception) Im not saying you would be a glass cannon with your current build, but you are easier to kill than some think a Paladin should be.
Take advantage of your +1 Stat lvl ups at lvls 4,8,12...etc. If you reduce your STR to 15(17 with Half Orc bonus)you still have a +3 STR MOD but you have 3 points left over to even out your stats. I might even reduce it to 14 to get 5 points and put 2 in INT so you can have better knowledge Nobility and knowledge Religion if your party has no Cleric.
STR: 15(17) 18 after 8th lvl
DEX: 12
CON: 13 +1 after 4th lvl
INT: 7
WIS: 10
CHA: 16
If it will be a long campaign might I even suggest somthing along the lines of this:
STR: 15(17, 18 at 12th)
DEX: 13 (14 at 16th)
CON: 13 (14 at 8th)
INT: 7
WIS: 12
CHA: 15 (16 at 4th)
This shouldnt hurt your dmg out put too much, would give your Paladin better saves, and make you more survivable overall. :-D

Mercurial |
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My favorite straight-up Paladin: (technically he's a quarter-orc wielding a Greatsword)
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Human Paladin (Oathsworn - Oath of Vengeance)
Attributes:
25 point build
STR - 16 (+2 racial bonus, +1 at 4th and 8th level, +2 at 11th, 15th and 17th level)
INT - 10
WIS - 8
DEX - 12
CON - 14
CHA - 16 (+1 at 12th, 16th and 20th level)
Feats:
1st - Power Attack
1st - Furious Focus
3rd - Extra Lay on Hands
5th - Deadly Aim
7th - Skill Focus: Survival
9th - Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
[Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (character level -2) for 1 round. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier.]
11th Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
[Strength of the Beast (Ex): At 11th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to +4 at 15th level and to +6 at 17th level.]
13th - Dreadful Carnage
15th - Intimidating Prowess
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
[Power of Giants (Sp): At 15th level, you may grow to Large size as a standard action. At this size you have Reach and gain a +6 size bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus to Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus. You may return to your normal size as a standard action. You may remain in this size for up to 1 minute per character level per day; this duration does not need to be consecutive, but it must be used in 1 minute increments.]
19th - Stunning Assault
Skills:
Intimidate +1 every level
Survival +1 every level
Knowledge: Religion +1 every odd level
Diplomacy +1 every even level
I don't worry about Perception because pretty much everyone else in my party has it and mine would be the lowest anyway (Wisdom penalty). Diplomacy and Knowledge were taken because they are appropriate to a Paladin, but mine isn't especially good at it, having spent most of his life away from society fighting evil.
Traits:
Bully (+1 Intimidate, Intimidate is a class Skill)
Poverty Stricken (+1 Survival, Survival is a class Skill)
I took Deadly Aim to help balance him out a little when dealing with things at range - remember, you can Smite with a bow too and not every situation allows you to close to melee range in order to get your full attack action.
Find out if your GM allows the trait Opportunistic Gambler (an Adventure Path trait) because if so it will allow you to use Touch of Rage on yourself and have the effects linger for 1d4 rounds afterwards. Very potent, especially when dealing with non-evil foes.
You might get some advice to take 'Quicken Spell-Like Ability' to use with Touch of Rage or Power of Giants, but I'd stay away from that controversy if I were you. I'd also stay away from Sacred Servant.
The character background was a kid who grew up as an urchin on the streets, bigger and stronger than the others and forced to do what was necessary to survive (hence the Bully and Poverty Stricken traits), until he found God that is.
A little bit of advice on spells - take full advantage of those you can cast as swift or immediate actions. Heroe's Defiance should be the first spell you take (and probably the second as well) to make yourself almost unkillable, then consider Grace (1st), Divine Favor (1st), Litany of Righteousness (2nd), Paladin's Sacrifice (2nd), Blessing of Fervor (3rd - granted by Vengeance Archetype and a great spell), Sanctify Armor (3rd) and Shield of the Dawnflower (4th).

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Mercurial - you have a lot of really great builds. Do you mind if I grab some of them and put them on this website, D20 Min-Max, giving you full credit and linking your posts? The website is an organized compilation of builds and guides for pathfinder, and but it always needs more builds and guides.

Mercurial |

Mercurial - you have a lot of really great builds. Do you mind if I grab some of them and put them on this website, D20 Min-Max, giving you full credit and linking your posts? The website is an organized compilation of builds and guides for pathfinder, and but it always needs more builds and guides.
Anything I can do to help I'd be happy to. I haven't ever really put together full guides with all of the options out there, just characters that I like to play and some advice on playing them. For me its really about character and backstory, but within the framework of that backstory I want the characters to be as optimized as possible.

Mercurial |

I'd advise dumping DEX (unless you need it for a feat) and getting INT a little higher. Perception is useful, but overrated. Don't dip just to get it as a class skill. Intimidate is rarely used, I wouldn't waste a trait on it.
Intimidate with Intimidating Prowess and Dreadful Carnage means that the first thing you kill will inflict the Shaken condition on everything on the battlefield for the rest of the fight. That's -2 to attacks and -2 to saves among other things every fight which can be very big and doesn't even cost you an action to perform.

Mercurial |

Where is this Orcish bloodline you reference? I don't see it in the books I said I'd be using. I don't mind you guys helping me out, but make sure it's something viable.
Plus the trait isn't in the books I can use, and without it, Touch of Rage is a poor option.
Orc Bloodline is here.
Touch of Rage is just a bonus - what you're working towards is +6 inherent Strength and then ANOTHER +6 Strength, +4 Consitution, +4 Natural Armor bonus, Large weapon damage AND Reach in combat.
Its worked out very, very nicely for me.

Crysknife |

Damn, can't use it. Looks ridiculously good for 3 feats. I'd have seen those and put them in any melee build.
It's certainly a very good option, but it does come with costs. 3 feats are a lot for a paladin. As for the other classes, most will not get as many benefits unless they have a reason for not dumping CHA in the first place.