People who are disappointed is bcz they were not able to connect the Promotheus events with Alien (1979) events movie.
Sorry, but that's just not true. I was disappointed because it was a bad movie. Heck, it might have been better if it hadn't tried so hard to be a prequel.
1) opening scene shows human-look-like specie, called an "engineer", who sacrifices himself by drinking a black substance to create lifeform on EARTH!.
Above him is a spaceship leaving..and probably more engineers gonna be dropped at different places on earth to do the same thing.This is explained later on by archeologists that different civilizations on Earth that had nothing in common, have the same starmap drawing in their culture.
Conclusion : Human race was an experiment. We have been created by these "Engineers"
That's not a valid conclusion based on what the movie actually presents. We know one thing only: "Engineers" have been on Earth several times during our history, at sporadic intervals from (at least) 35,000 years ago to 2,000 years ago. Then, they apparently stopped visiting (or we just haven't uncovered evidence of later visits). We also know that Engineer DNA matches human DNA. If you were a scientist prone to draw unfounded conclusions, this should be a "We are the Engineers" kind of revelation. Not a "this confirms what I already concluded from cave paintings that had nothing to do with this: We were created by the Engineers."
I know Dr. Shaw draws the same conclusion as you, but since she haven't seen the intro to the movie, she bases this conclusion on exactly nothing. I don't know how anyone could look at that cave painting on the Isle of Skye and go "this is conclusive evidence that humanity was created by an alien species."
2) Prometheus spaceship lands in 2094 on this moon planet which is NOT the same planet where Ripley lands. But in the same galaxy system.
Ripley event happens 30 years later. This moon planet is a military base. They experiment their weapon which is the black substance that creates new lifeform such as Alien.
We don't know what kind of base it is they find on this moon, or what it was used for. The captain makes an off-hand comment based on, you guessed it, nothing.
3) Prometheus crew found all the "engineers" dead on this planet. something went wrong. When? 2000 years ago which appears to be the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. In an interview, Ridley Scott clearly stated this event is the trigger of what went wrong on these military base. Explanation is that Engineers was watching us for millions years. They witnessed how we evolved. And they decided to abort the experiment when they realize we were bad. Their mission was to destroy earth. That is why the Engineer ship at the end is programmed to go to Earth. That is why when Prometheus crew wake up the Engineer...he reacts...
First. The Prometheus crew didn't actually investigate the entire "planet" (it was actually a moon, wasn't it?). They went directly for one location, and found a couple of bodies. They have no idea if there are any other structures somewhere else.
Secondly, we don't actually know they decided to destroy Earth. Dr. Shaw concluded this, but as usual she didn't base her conclusion on anything.
As for the reaction of the Engineer they wake up? We have no idea. Maybe David said something to piss him off (honestly, I wouldn't put it past him). Maybe he was having a really bad day. Also, note how readily Dr. Shaw concludes that the Engineer ship is taking off to destroy Earth? She wasn't even on the bridge when the Engineer started to plot a course. She has no idea where he's going. And what, exactly, stopped the ship from going to Earth 2,000 years ago, anyway? The bridge didn't seem contaminated. What happened to the pilot?
And, I'm sorry, but if the Jesus Christ angle is true, that makes the movie even worse than I thought. "Hey, they killed a guy. Let's nuke the planet!" I guess nobody ever died of unnatural causes in the past 33,000 years, huh?
...stuff I agree with...
This movie pissed me off badly enough to write a 5000 word deconstruction of it on my G+. It's here (https://plus.google.com/u/0/112891558082933132721/posts/W3QdC6SxKFm) if anybody feels there's enough meat left on the corpse to take another couple bites.
I think you don't get what I mean:
People act 'stupid', illogical, or plain dumb for a variety of reasons. That SHOULD be the case with fictional characters, too.
The fact that I groan about the flawed action of a fictional character does not make the work of fiction flawed, just the character or better: said action of the character.
I get you, but certain stupid actions draw more attention than others. Some things such as the "snake" situation I mentioned upthread considering that person's area of expertise should be criticized, IMHO. To continue, smart people are less likely to make bad decisions, especially in their fields than average people or those not trained in that field.
If the scientist sets can't figure out a weapon I understand. He is not a soldier. If he makes a common sense error, such as not thinking to move ignitable item Z away from the fire, I get that too. We all have brain dumps.
I guess what I am saying is that some mistakes are less forgivable than others considering the circumstances.
I get that. But real life tells us that les forgivable and less understandable mistakes happen. Every Day. Made by all kind of people. I just don't see a reason why the same shouldn't be true for a movie aka: there is a difference between a dumb acting character and a dumb movie.
With this movie, I don't think one "not so smart" smart person is too much to handle, but there was at quiet a few, and I think that is part of the movie's criticism. The old man gets a pass because he was desperate. The main character's bf seemed like the type to have gotten away with dangerous things too many times, so he has the "I won't get hurt" thing going.
To take it further I agree with you about flawed(in the same general way) characters with a flaw they should not have, it kills suspension of belief, and at that point the movie gets blamed.
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I haven't seen Prometheus yet (not out here in Germany), so I can't comment.
I think the 'should not have' concerning character flaws is, at best, highly subjective, however, and I found out that what kills the suspension of disbelieve differs from viewer to viewer.
The characters in Dumb and Dumber make more sensible decisions.
ok several questions
"THe old 8.2's were always a bit...twitchy." - Bishop
@wicked cool: You still don't quite have it.
(spoiler)interesting text(/spoiler)
Change the () into [].
If you want a title:
(spoiler=title)interesting text(/spoiler)
Again change () into [].
I would suggest hitting preview just to see if you got it right before posting.
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@ShadowcatX
As for the filming reason, they made the domes almost entirely transparent, you can easily show people's faces with those. My guess is if there was a movie reason it was because the actors were getting hot and finding it hard to breathe in non-functioning environmental suits. Still that doesn't excuse stupid writing.
Also, for the bio-scientist, him and the pup-keeper specifically moved away from a life sign reading (its to the East, we are heading West). But show a worm/eel/snake and suddenly he is all, "On aren't you beautiful. Who's a beautiful worm/eel/snake? You are." It just wasn't internally consistent. What if instead they had seen it and said, "What the hell, let's get out of here!" and on the way to the door another one jumped on the scientist and ... same rest of the scene. That would have been much better for internal consistency. But still it didn't make sense for them to get lost in the first place giving the pup-keeper would logically have had a mini-map in order to do his job as pup-keeper.
Man, I didn't know shiznit went down like this in the movies threads. What have I been missing?!?
Thoughts on Space Jesus:
If they were going to implant some kind of messiah in a culture, why would they put them in the most fanatically monotheistic society this planet has even seen? (Give or take.) WTF?!? That's got to be the worst bit of intelligence-gathering since [redacted]!
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@TOZ: You definitely don't need to have seen Alien to enjoy the movie. It's not really the same type of film.
So, the people that liked it think those that didn't are dumb because they can't see the hidden majesty and subtle depth.
Those that didn't like it think that those that did are dumb because they can't see the gaping plot holes.
Is that about the sum of it?
Wow. Nobody was remotely calling anyone else dumb.
The only thing I can possibly agree with in that statement is that the movie strikes me as intensely personal (love it or hate it, which is why I mentioned 'Alexander' earlier).
@Pres Man: Curse you for all time for mentioning 'That Film Which Shall Not Be Named'!!!
David just did things, and nobody every really knew why. I figured out why to an extent, but a lot of things still did not make sense even after the movie was over.
If you could understand why David was doing things, then you might be a robot. The objective was to create a character that was superficially so human you couldn't see that he was inhuman.
** spoiler omitted **
When they were running from the lifeform, they were spooked from seeing all the big dead aliens and were imagining who knows what. Then they see the non-threatening cutie monster and acts like the stupid human that he is. Seems legit to me.
The taking off of the helmets, however, was pretty unforgivably dumb. It didn't really bother me, though.
I think, all in all, Prometheus was f&$%ing badass. I didn't spend half as much time analyzing the movie that some of you seem to have done. I just looked at it and went "wow".
I didn't like it as much as 1 or 2, but I liked it better than 3 and I liked 3.
** spoiler omitted **
As for why they were all piled at some door, I assumed that they were trying to get into there to avoid whatever was happening to them and died there much like the one that got his head cut off at the other door. I think they mentioned that there were some "bursts" from the chests. Of course, given the explosive nature of the engineers when exposed to whatever biological agent, I don't think we can assume that means they were overrun by zenomorphs.
@ pres man
** spoiler omitted **
The explosive part I was referring to was when they "jump started" the head on board the ship and it suddenly reacted violently and exploded.
As for the beginning scene, I have a thought that maybe that was actually on the "military planet" and the guy was of a different group that was infecting the other side's water* supply causing the incident 2000 years ago.
*If you remember, the water wasn't acting like water in the movie. They mention how cold it is and that the water should be frozen but it wasn't which they found strange. Perhaps it wasn't water at all, but it did carry the infection that the guy at the beginning was infecting them with. Just a thought.
Well all youse guys's posts have definitely convinced me that I need to watch this again--and soon!
To change the subject entirely, one thing that disappointed me about Prometheus was the disappearance of the Space Workers.
In #1, you've got Yaphet Kotto and Harry Dean portraying unionized Weyland employees. In #2, you've got a whole battalion of Space Grunts (Bill Paxton is a god!) plus Ripley putting to good use her forklift certification. #3 is made up almost entirely of the Space Lumpenproletariat.
I would have traded all the Space Jesus theories in the world for just one Space Teamster.
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To change the subject entirely, one thing that disappointed me about Prometheus was the disappearance of the Space Workers.
In #1, you've got Yaphet Kotto and Harry Dean portraying unionized Weyland employees. In #2, you've got a whole battalion of Space Grunts (Bill Paxton is a god!) plus Ripley putting to good use her forklift certification. #3 is made up almost entirely of the Space Lumpenproletariat.
I would have traded all the Space Jesus theories in the world for just one Space Teamster.
The pilots felt pretty blue-collar to me. Not quite as grungy, though.
He was just hopin Charlize was down with teh struggle. He's quite the mack, but still needs help now and then...
I kid! Everyone knows commies can't score...
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What I've been telling folks is that if Alien = H.P. Lovecraft as science fiction, and Aliens = Robert Heinlein, then Prometheus = Arthur C. Clarke. Honestly, if Scott had rubbed the serial numbers of the Alien franchise off of the movie and made it stand alone it would have been a very Clarke-ish story in the vein of "Rendezvous with Rama".
I kid! Everyone knows commies can't score...
Ah-choo! (Your mother!)
This movie pissed me off badly enough to write a 5000 word deconstruction of it on my G+. It's here (https://plus.google.com/u/0/112891558082933132721/posts/W3QdC6SxKFm) if anybody feels there's enough meat left on the corpse to take another couple bites.
A... sadly accurate review of the movie. A good read.
As a tiny niggling point, I don't think there was actually any mention og Aztec discoveries. The Aztec culture arose in the 14th century and would have completely ruined the so-called premise of the film.
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...stuff I agree with...This movie pissed me off badly enough to write a 5000 word deconstruction of it on my G+. It's here (https://plus.google.com/u/0/112891558082933132721/posts/W3QdC6SxKFm) if anybody feels there's enough meat left on the corpse to take another couple bites.
You sir have been weighed and found more than deserving. This is the most accurate review of this film yet, and had I not seen the movie I would have thought you were exaggerating, but to the chagrin of my wasted dollars, you were not.
** spoiler omitted **
Those were not the lowest points of Prometheus. Not by a long shot.
People who are disappointed is bcz they were not able to connect the Promotheus events with Alien (1979) events movie.
It's pretty straightforward to connect PROMETHEUS to ALIEN. That doesn't excuse the lazy plotting, ridiculous amounts of 'movie logic' and failures in characterisation prevalent in the movie.
It does look absolutely spectacular, however, and some of the actors (particularly Rapace, Fassbender and Elba) are superb.
My advice to everyone who loves Alien and wants to enjoy Prometheus is to READ explanations BEFORE. READ SPOILERS that explains what is happening in Promotheus.
If you have to read a detailed online explanation on a movie before you go to see it in order to understand it, that movie is a failure.
2) Prometheus spaceship lands in 2094 on this moon planet which is NOT the same planet where Ripley lands. But in the same galaxy system.
Ripley event happens 30 years later. This moon planet is a military base. They experiment their weapon which is the black substance that creates new lifeform such as Alien.
Incorrect. The Alien pre-existed, as seen in the mural in the ship. Ridley Scott has confirmed that the ship on LV-426 (in the original ALIEN and ALIENS) left the base on LV-223 within a century or two of the base being destroyed. So not just the Alien but the fully mature facehugger/chestburster/alien process seen in the earlier movies was well-established long before that point. The black goo may be an attempt to copy the Alien process, but it is not a prototype or progenitor of it.
Galaxies and star systems are different things, by the way.
5) When the girl archeologist Shaw leaves the planet at the end with the android , she leaves a message. This message is probably the same that Ripley nostromo crew receives. You can imagine Ripley crew was a rescue mission to find Prometheus. BUT they land on a different moon planet which is another engineer military base.
Incorrect. Shaw sent a message back to Earth. The Company diverted the Nostromo (a mining vessel on its way back to Earth from a mining colony) to LV-426 to investigate a warning beacon emanating from the Engineer ship that had been forced to land on that planet that they had detected. There was no Engineer military base on LV-426, just the landed ship (some fans originally theorised the eggs in ALIEN were in a cavern under the ship, but this has been ruled out by both Scott and James Cameron). The distress beacon stopped working between ALIEN and ALIENS due to an earthquake damaging the mechanism, according to Cameron when ALIENS first came out.
I suggest you go out immediately and pick up Alien and Aliens. You can find them cheap on DVD. The blu ray release of Prometheus will have an additional 20 minutes added to the film.
If a stand-alone movie requires you to have watched others first, the movie is a failure. If a movie requires you to watch 20 minutes extra on a blu-ray release 6 months later to understand it, it is a failure.
I, for one, don't want a sequel. I am perfectly happy with everything not being explained.
PROMETHEUS was planned from the start to be a trilogy. Based on the film's performance (only a week in and it's well over $50 million past its budget) we'll probably get the sequels.
If we get a sequel will it be more like alien 2. I cant speak for anyone else but i've always wanted to see something more like that movie but try to be better.
I'm hoping we see some of the same vilians/heroes in a sequel. Some of these have lots of potential and if handled correctly could make great anti-heroes.
I kid! Everyone knows commies can't score...Ah-choo! (Your mother!)
:P
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Worm = Life form. Said little worm may have been a Microbe that evolved to worm, that evolved to strangler snake which evolved into?
I loved the movie. it was fun, intense and made since. lets face it, even scientists do bone headed things, especially when freaked out, scared, cold, hungry, arrogant, etc. No body is beyond winning the Darwin award... nobody.
The movie made since to me, gave a ton of questions answered a few and left me wanting more.
For those of us who watch the TV show Ancient Aliens on History might grasp this movie better that maybe Jesus was a Alien/human Hybrid and that yes, human kind was created and maybe evolved or maybe not.
The fact remains they hit on some major truths in this movie. The star map DOES exist with cultures that never knew each other, and yet that star map shows a place that does exist and CANNOT be seen by the eye and barely seen by technology of today.
Yes there are haters, What movie does not have them. Look at Episode 1. Some SW fans LOVED this movie and many of us hated it with a passion. Heck most of use hated 1 - 3 accept the end of 3.
If you hate or do not like the movie, that is your opinion. You will never change the mind of those that love or like it. if you love and like a movie, you will never change the mind of those that hate it.
@IceniQueen: My problem isn't that I hated the movie, it is that I liked it. That is why when they decided to do extremely stupid/inconsistent things, it frustrated me all the more. When, for example, somebody on Pirahnaconda (SyFy movie) does something stupid, I don't get frustrated because everyone is suppose to be stupid in that kind of movie. I expect a little bit more from the characters in this movie. Especially when the could get exactly the same outcome without making the characters extreme douches.
For example, take the geo and bio guys (please! LOL):
They get to door and find it locked and can't figure out how to unlock it. David will have to do it later. Suddenly storm hits, "Get back to the ship!" Unfortunately now they are too far away and don't get back before everyone takes off. Damn, better buckle down for the night. Head back to the area that is ok to breathe since your suits won't last all night. And run into cobra-worms (COBRA!). Guys go, "Crap what is that!" Move to the door but another one jumps out and attacks, same conclusion as in the movie.
Personally I think that makes a hell of a lot more sense given the established characteristics of the two guys.
#Geo guy has a reader on his wrist that he looks at and says, "This way." Before they get to the safe environment area. Did it get broke?
Now let's say they want bio guy to be all "Pretty cobra-worm!" Ok, when the two get told to investigate the inconsistent lifeform says something like, "Finally something alive. I hate all this dead crap." Get to the door. Damn, can't get through, crap missed our rides, go back to temple to conserve air. Hey look, pretty cobra-worm, same end result as movie. In that case at least you are establishing that this guy is interested in new lifeforms. Instead, when they are told of the lifeform is to the West iirc, he is the one that says they should head east. Then later he is all pretty lifeform. It is inconsistent with the character that was established. It is like the switched the guy between those scenes with Brad Dourif character in Alien: Resurrection.
On headdresses:
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Once again people do Stupid stuff all of the time. You might think you would not, but in a given situation you might.
A great example of doing something stupid.
Lt Col George Armstrong Custer. A high Decorated soldier and former General of the American Civil War. Said to be brave, and daring.
Mistake number 1 Decided NOT to take 2 Gatling guns with him to Little Big Horn, he felt it would slow him down
Mistake 2 Decided to not take sabers
Mistake 3 Split his forces into 3 columns of rough 250 soldiers each
Mistake 4 Never trusted Native scouts and then when they told him the truth, he did not trust them
Mistake 5 Ordered Reno to charge one end of a native camp of over 2000 strong and he would charge into the other end
Mistake 6 Did not keep his flank protected
Mistake 7 Had Benteen with the supply wagons way in the back
Mistake 8 treated Benteen and Reno bad that neither would come to help him
Mistake 9 Had worse rifles than natives (Natives had Henry rifles, Custer had Sharps and Pistols)
Mistake 10 wanted all the glory
So you see, people make mistakes and this is but on small one in our history of mankind. Just because you think in a movie it is bone headed, or stupid, in a real life situation people make stupid mistakes.
People have a car, driving out in remote area in winter, get stuck, 1 person leaves car, the other person stays. Who survives? The one that stayed in the car. Bone head mistake? YES! it happens. Scott actually creates back story and detail for all of his characters. Just because you might say it is stupid, it is character flaw. It happens!!! people do stupid things in situations that the rest of us Smack our head and say DUHHH That was stupid. hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20
Stupid things are fine! Poor choices are fine!
People acting inconsistent with established behavior is not ok.
If a character says, "I have never, nor will I ever smoke." And then in the very next scene they come across a pipe and say, "That is one cool ass pipe, I have to smoke the crap out of that." That is stupid WRITING. Yes, characters can be stupid, but you don't write a character in a corner and then in the next scene have the character out the window, down the block, and on a plane. It is stupid writing! Don't defend poorly writing details, seriously. Look at the good stuff, support improvements made in sequels, but don't try to convince me that some really dumb writing decisions are actually ok because people sometimes do stupid stuff.
Custard's life, I bet if we did research on him, was full of egotistically decisions. I seriously doubt he made lots of decisions of carrying superior firepower and treated others really well, until this one situation. Instead there was probably a pattern to his decisions that invariable lead to his fate.
If you wanted to do a movie on Custard, would probably show lots of times in his life that he made some egotistical and poor military decisions. You wouldn't probably portray him as this careful strategist that had never been outsmarted and then suddenly he left his bullets on the train.
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I loved the movie. it was fun, intense and made since. lets face it, even scientists do bone headed things, especially when freaked out, scared, cold, hungry, arrogant, etc. No body is beyond winning the Darwin award... nobody.
One dumb scientist is acceptable. When you get a couple, not so much, and not all of us are Darwin material, and I would also say that the top scientist in a field are also far from it. You might die trying to do someone else's job, but playing with the "snake".....
I enjoyed the movie, but I still think it had a couple of WTF moments.
Once again people do Stupid stuff all of the time. You might think you would not, but in a given situation you might.
A great example of doing something stupid.
Lt Col George Armstrong Custer. A high Decorated soldier and former General of the American Civil War. Said to be brave, and daring.
Mistake number 1 Decided NOT to take 2 Gatling guns with him to Little Big Horn, he felt it would slow him down
Mistake 2 Decided to not take sabers
Mistake 3 Split his forces into 3 columns of rough 250 soldiers each
Mistake 4 Never trusted Native scouts and then when they told him the truth, he did not trust them
Mistake 5 Ordered Reno to charge one end of a native camp of over 2000 strong and he would charge into the other end
Mistake 6 Did not keep his flank protected
Mistake 7 Had Benteen with the supply wagons way in the back
Mistake 8 treated Benteen and Reno bad that neither would come to help him
Mistake 9 Had worse rifles than natives (Natives had Henry rifles, Custer had Sharps and Pistols)
Mistake 10 wanted all the glory
So you see, people make mistakes and this is but on small one in our history of mankind. Just because you think in a movie it is bone headed, or stupid, in a real life situation people make stupid mistakes.
People have a car, driving out in remote area in winter, get stuck, 1 person leaves car, the other person stays. Who survives? The one that stayed in the car. Bone head mistake? YES! it happens. Scott actually creates back story and detail for all of his characters. Just because you might say it is stupid, it is character flaw. It happens!!! people do stupid things in situations that the rest of us Smack our head and say DUHHH That was stupid. hind sight is ALWAYS 20/20
Those are not darwin level mistakes. Your examples are more like if I am coaching football, and I call for a corner back blitz, and the hole in the zone gets exploited.
What these scientist did was break protocols that even non-scientist such as myself would even know about. An example of they did would be like an automobile mechanics trying to drive cross country without oil in the engine, and being surprised when the engine fails. I have seen people lose engines because they did not take care of it, but it is rare, but for someone in the field to do it does not make much sense.
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Steve Irwin... Crocodile Hunter. Played with the deadliest snakes on the planet. Never got hurt. Played with Croc's never got badly hurt. Swam with a Sting Ray... DIED!!! he did a Stupid Mistake.
Scientists do stupid things ALL of the time FACT. it's risk taking. People in movies do it. You the audience says No don't do that because we know something bad will happen. People in RL think nothing bad will happen to them like Steve Irwin, but guess what, he died because he made a mistake, a stupid action 1 tiny mistake that he never made before. Even people that are always 100% consistent make a mistake that ends their life. It happens Every Day!!! Not just in a movie.
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Steve Irwin... Crocodile Hunter. Played with the deadliest snakes on the planet. Never got hurt. Played with Croc's never got badly hurt. Swam with a Sting Ray... DIED!!! he did a Stupid Mistake.
This statement is so horrendously idiotic I can't believe you seriously meant it. Steve Irwin knew the risks of every animal interaction he performed. He knew any of them could kill him and accepted the risk. Getting killed by the ray was a longshot that just happened to occur. Nothing about that was stupid.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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One dumb scientist is acceptable. When you get a couple, not so much, and not all of us are Darwin material, and I would also say that the top scientist in a field are also far from it. You might die trying to do someone else's job, but playing with the "snake".....
I enjoyed the movie, but I still think it had a couple of WTF moments.
You, as a viewer, known the snake-thing's some sort of uber-nasty creature that can probably burrow through deck plates. A scientist with an armored spacesuit and a solid helmet? Yeah, he'd probably risk approaching a wild specimen, and he was doing about the right things to accomplish that.
I was pleased the scientists didn't know they were in a horror movie.
You, as a viewer, known the snake-thing's some sort of uber-nasty creature that can probably burrow through deck plates. A scientist with an armored spacesuit and a solid helmet? Yeah, he'd probably risk approaching a wild specimen, and he was doing about the right things to accomplish that.
I was pleased the scientists didn't know they were in a horror movie.
The problem wasn't acting stupid.
I have a problem with having the character's personality that had already been established be suddenly flipped on its head.
Bio guy is the one that says when the lifeform is detected to the West, that they should head away towards the East. Bio guy despite wearing environmental suit isn't willing to risk it. Snake-Worm shows up and suddenly, despite threatening display, Bio guy is suddenly all into handling alien lifeforms. Hell, at this point he would probably tongue kiss a xenomorph through a window à la Brad Dourif. Serious disruption to pre-established character behavior.