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So my fiancé wants to spend more time with me. I play dnd (pathfinder) Tuesday nights and she has finally accepted I won’t be quitting so I offered for her to join. She said she is interested and wants to try. I am developing a very fun ninja character for her. This character is going to be aimed at ease of play but give her a couple things to look out for. First of all she won’t be our trapper we have an urban ranger for that so her skills will be going into umd and combat/stealth type things. And with the addition of sneak attack dice she will have to think about things like grid positions (something I feel is very important in game)
So far this is what I have. (Remember not going for optimized more for learning and fun)
Half elf fighter 2/ninja 2
Half elf racial feat skill focus knowledge nature. Then taking eldritch heritage to gain an animal companion via sylvan bloodline. Taking boon companion at level 5 to give her an animal companion with effective druid level -1. She will probably use a dog until 7 when a cat makes more combat sense. But she said she’d like a pet and I prefer this over just buying a dog. Also with the 4 level stat boost to int she can use the dog to take teamwork feats like outflank.
2 level fighter dip was to use martial 2 handed weapons and composite bows. And the few extra hp and bonus feats don’t hurt.
Her ninja tricks are looking like pressure points, vanish, and bleeding attack. Weapon of choice a falchion (keen) and a composite STR bow +4.
My dm has us running a homebrew campaign he describes as (lethal) so he has given us a 30 point buy with no stats being bought below 10. So her point buy looks like this
STR: 18 DEX: 14 CON: 14 INT: 14 WIS: 10 CHA: 14
With the +2 going into strength. Her level 4 stat boost will probably go into dex.
If there are any must have feats out there let me know about them and also any feedback on the build so far would be appreciated. Please remember comments like "rogues and ninjas suck build her a fighter" are not appreciated thanks.
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Having said that. A multiclass character, with the additional complexity of an animal companion? That is a lot for an experienced player to deal with, let alone a new player.
Rogues and ninjas do not suck. But you should still roll her a fighter. It is traditional and relatively easy way for a new player to come to grips with the concepts of the game and ensures that she will have something to do all the time whilst allowing for growth and complexity as the character levels.
Completely agree. I will say that the *other* way to go besides fighter would be a very straight Rogue with lots of social skills. That way she could really play up the role-playing side of things. That worked really well for introducing my kids to D&D.
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The best way to get people to know the way their character works is if they built it themselves. Let her pick a single class and sit beside her while she makes it. If she wants a pet badly, have her make a druid or ranger. If she is building it, she has a much better chance of knowing what her powers are.
Also, stick to core.
Ninja, really? Have fun sleeping on the couch...
The way that the Sylvan bloodline power is worded is that it is both the first level power and the bloodline arcana. Eldritch Heritage is pretty specific that only the bloodline power is granted and not the arcana.
First, this.
The best way to get people to know the way their character works is if they built it themselves. Let her pick a single class and sit beside her while she makes it. If she wants a pet badly, have her make a druid or ranger. If she is building it, she has a much better chance of knowing what her powers are.
Also, stick to core.
Then this.
I agree with everyone above that multi-classing is probably more trouble than it is worth in this case.
My futurewife started playing about 18 months ago, so I will give you my insights. At first she played a gnome bow rogue. In game, though, she was often confused by rapid shot and sneak attack. Also, she found sitting back and lobbing arrows kind of boring.
After that she switched to barbarian, and loves it. She finds rage powers less overwhelming than combat feats. Also she doesn't have to worry about tactics; she just two hands a bastard sword (currently) and rages. As she learns tactics and employs them, she feels rewarded.
I can't say that Barbie is best for every first time gamer, but it definitely was for my ladylove. I know there's a mounted barbie archtype if she wants a pet.
Honestly, though, she might like druid. I'd refer her to Treantmonk's guide on the subject. The melee focused variety has less casting to worry about.
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I have to agree with the above posters. Stick to something simple.
I actually have a new player joining a game I'm running for my family, and what I've done is made 3 characters, each of which fills a different archetype (scout is a Ranger, defender is a Fighter, and magic user is a Sorcerer), and she can choose which she wants to play. The ranger has a little bit of everything, but is mechanically very simple. The fighter focuses on high AC and combat reflexes combined with Whirlwind Attack (went with Phalanx Warrior), and the Sorcerer has a number of utility spells and some damage dealing, too, mostly because new players think Charm Person is the coolest spell EVER.
Basically, stick to simple, easy to grasp concepts that can be explained in one short sentence.
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I am going to second the simple argument. When my girlfriend started playing I statted her up an Elven fighter. (All she knew was she wanted to play an elf-she loved LotR and Arwyn in particular.) All she had to do in combat was roll a die and her plusses and she contributed in combat more than any other player at the table. Keep it simple, let her focus on the character building and role playing to start, and once she is comfortable then start the heavy lifting.
Hell I have been playing for two years and I still do not understand all the rules.
Running a short one-off with her and some other friends would probably be a good idea before introducing her to an ongoing campaign.
I also agree with the idea of letting her come up with a character concept and then helping her build it. I mean, for a lot of people, that's one of the core things that draws them to rpgs.
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It's good you're bringing someone important in your life to the game so you can share it with her. One important question: is this the type of character that SHE wants to play? She may not know exactly what class or race to play, but I'm sure she would have an idea of the type of activities she may want to accomplish. Present her with some options that might allow her to accomplish her vision, and let her know the pros and cons of those choices, but at least allow her to make those final decisions. I would think that allowing her that possibility might get her more invested into your hobby.
DAMMIT! Ninja'd because I didn't read the whole thread closely enough.
That definitely is not very simple build. Multiclass with animal companion and plenty of class abilities? It might be fun for someone who already knows the rules, but I would bet she will just get overwhelmed by that.
Yep, core only. As few fiddly bits as possible.
I have had the fun of introducing a number of people to the game, friends spouses, my own spouse, my friends daughter and several of her friends. The biggest thing I can tell you is interest. Interest in the character and how it fits to the game is going to trump complexity.
Complexity is definately an issue but trust me interest is going to be big in keeping their attention for the first session and to bring them back for more.
Second and this really is for the DM, situations in which they can shine are important. If they are an archer get them in a senario where they can really lay the smack down in a meaningful way. If they are a druid overwhelm the party with animals that they could never cut their way through and only her animal empathy turns back the owlbears or wolves or bears. It shouldn't be ego stroking but give them a chance to shine. Some GMs do this anyway, but other times the senario is through at the party and it is up to the players to apply their abilities to the situation. With a new player keep in mind they even with a "simple" character they are still learning when certain abilities are relevant.
Often times experienced role players like complex characters that fit a new concept or a level of complexity to the characts that can easily get lost on new players. If you can keep the races simple and relevant for them to understand. Chances are they know elves, or orcs but might be lost with a drow, or tengu in the party. If possible have the other players stick to established sterotypes (or to sterotypes that are relevant to the new player).
To the OP:
If I were you, which I'm not, I would suggest her to play a straight Fighter (core only), because it's the easiest class to play, and I would let her create the characte all by herself, with a little help from your part during all steps of character creation. Fighters still benefit from flanking position (+10% chance to hit is always nice), so she will learn to pay attention to the positions of the miniatures on the grid, and playing your own character is way more satisfying than playing one that is given to you. Melee weapons are easier to use than ranged weapons, because you don't have to bother yourself with soft cover, cover, line of sight, firing into a melee, etc.
If she really wants to play a complicated class, like a Druid or a Summoner, it's allright, you can always build and run her animal companion or eidolon for her during her first few games, until she have a solid grasp of how the game work.
Good luck and have fun!
EDIT: I just saw that she wants to have a pet. Ranger would be the obvious choice, but even as a Fighter she could have a trained war dog at her side.
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<--- the op
we have played wow together for about a year now she is currently playing diablo 3 and one thing she always comes to is "what kind of pets can i have" i have created a monster she is a collector lol much like myself in game. the ninja was partially for the HUGE amount of skills (both class skills and actual points) i wanted her to be able to be stealthy and social when she felt like it. we already have an urban ranger so i wanted her to play something else than ranger (which was of course my first choice also)
i have learned my lesson about showing off to my fiance in game palying with her on multiple platforms. i do not make this mistake. telling a player that a +2 bonus to hit is worth putting yourself in possible danger or maybe eating that AoO is worth it is hard to explain. but to show her the importance of flanking (and all other combat tactics from there) by saying look your 1d8 Katana now does 1D8+2d6+str*1.5 AND you get a +2 to hit just sounds much more appealing.
as for teaching she is wrapping up softball for 1.5 more months so i have that time to teach her i am already planning a sort of "bootcamp" and she is super excited.
i gave her the "hook" (short blurb to catch someones attention" and she heard and lit up at words like:
Elf, katana, ninja, pet, stealth, and oddly enough she said "sneak attack sounds cool"
the feats i am looking at for this do try to focus on static abilities as much as possible i agree improved initiative is a must weapon focus i am not a fan of unless as a prerequisite. i have decided however not to multiclass. i am looking now more towards a pure ninja. the animal companions purpose is more so she can make sure she gets flanking in case other players dont play along. i dont want her getting frustrated.
i appreciate all the input please keep it coming.
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Nephril: What I would do is set her up with a core ranger build, built to be a switch-hitter (AKA: Treantmonk style). Splash in a few APG feats if you like later on.
Human ranger 4
Str 18, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
Feats
1 Power Attack, Quick-Draw
2 Rapid Shot
3 Deadly Aim
4
Of course grabbing Boon Companion at level 5. She has something quite like sneak attack in favoured enemy, she can be effective at both melee and ranged, she gets 7 skills/level, and she gets a pet. She'll have minimal access to spells, which is perfect for a beginning player.
Of course if you really want pure ninja, here's my suggestions:
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14
Feats
1 Improved Initiative, Iron Will
2 (Vanishing Trick)
3 Extra Ki
4 (Combat Trick): Power Attack
This way she can play around with the most fun part of ninja: being invisible. She'll have plenty of ki to burn, and unlike most ninjas, her will saves won't suck. She'll also do some serious damage two-handing a katana, with or without sneak attack.
I think she can handle something as complex as a ninja, if she's interested. I remember my first character was a rogue. I was so interested in the class, that I spend time on my own reading the abilities, and becoming familiar with what they do, then asking questions to my friends on free time. It sounds like she may do that kind of thing too if you can get her hooked well enough.
The idea that "multiclassing" with a fighter is complex is just stupid. Two levels of fighter = full bab and some feats. These do NOT add to complexity. *edit oh ya and a bonus to will saves vs fear... which she doesn't even have to know about.
What I would NOT suggest is giving her an animal companion. I think this adds another dimension of complexity, and more time taken away from the rest of the players in game while she thinks about it and everyone else tries to tell her what to do. Also, if it dies in combat while trying to flank something, she may very well be devastated. *edit what do pets in WoW do? Add flavor, which is exactly what it sounds like she wants.
Give her a dog (or WHATEVER she wants), that is used for RP. Barks when it smells something, responds to dangerous situations accordingly. Work with the GM to make the pet meaningful. All she has to do is buy it, and give it a name and voila, she's got a loyal companion. It will take 0 feats, traits, skills etc to have it, it's just a flavorpup.
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Blackbloodtroll is on the right track. Animal domain inquisitor can have invisibility as one of her known spells, can max out stealth and fight like a rogue using judgement for damage while her animal companion helps her out. When she picks up Boon Companion at level 5, her animal companion can up its intelligence like you suggest so it can qualify for one of her teamwork feats.
Skills, a few spells (tailored to her wishes), an animal companion, and bane at level 5: is that close to her desires?
Half-celestial paladin (or fighter or ranger) 3 with a non-casting archetype. THAT is a simple, effective lvl 4 character.
i am very hesitant about introducing her to spells... i may look into it though.
If you do go that route, keep in mind that spontaneous spellcasting is generally easier to understand for newbies than prepared spellcasting.
I try to keep new players away from the wizard, witch, magus, druid and cleric classes for first-time characters (unless they really want to play one of course).
Sounds like she likes the idea of a ninja with a pet though, which is great.
...And people who are saying ninja, or multiclassed whatever with a fighter dip are complicated for newbies have apparently never compared either of those to a monk. Or a magus. Or a cavalier. Or even a bard. Fighter is two feats and bravery, and the only even remotely difficult thing about the Ninja at early levels is the ki pool.
I'd say take pure Ninja, build it together with her. You do the pet on the side. Just think of it like that: her level 7 feat will be leadership, just that she has her monster cohort earlier.
If you are doing 30 point buy the 3/4 BAB of the ninja should not be much of an issue. Try to keep the ninja as simple as possible while still being effective.
While building the character at least give her some options to chose from. Don't forget your tanglefoot bags...
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Spell Cards will make this introduction easier. I love them, and every player I have helped introduce spellcasting to loved them.
Perram's Spellbook is good. Here it is.
Ninja with a pet heh?
Sweet! :)
My Pathfinder group used to be a guy's night out. Then the DM's girlfriend got involved.
What's a barbarian? Can my character have a cute pet kitty?
I quit, it fell apart.
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I had the opposite happen to me. A player's fiance was interested in playing in our 3.5 game. Now this gal was straight A, head cheerleader in highschool, and we expected trouble brewing. She came in, played a monster classed Astral Deva. She was an awesome roleplayer, and was really into the game. She was also good at tactics, and keeping track of her abilities. It was a shame when her fiance quit, and more or less forced her to quit.
I think he was upset that she was a better RP'er than him.
Personally I think a fighter or sorcerer are some of the easiest to play, provided you have spellcards handy.
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I still vote Inquisitor.
If she chooses Graffiacane as her god, she will have the Animal domain, and Shuriken as her favored weapon, meaning she will be proficient. With Inquisitor spells like abundant ammunition, this will make it effective and flavorful weapon. Choose the Heretic archetype and she will be incredibly stealthy.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Any kind of preparation spellcaster, especially divine preparation casters, are hard for inexperienced players because of the sheer volume of spells they have to know about (not know 100%, but know enough to pick spells). Short list spontaneous casters are much easier.
Mechanically simple classes are best. Paladin is actually my favorite class for first time players--the spells are so minor they don't really overwhelm new players. Smite teaches resource management. There are built-in roleplaying hooks with the paladin's code. Divine grace and heavy armor make paladins durable, too, so new players learn to take risks.
Ranger's also a good choice for many of the same reasons--particularly 2HF or sword-and-board rangers. 2WF and archery can get a little complicated at first with multiple attacks. Rangers also have a lot of stuff to do outside of combat.
Barbarians and fighters are also good, but fighters can overwhelm with feat choices. Barbarians are very straightforward: rage, smash, repeat.
Druid, alchemist, and summoner are probably the very worst classes for new players (which is sad because so many new players want to start with a druid). They are mechanically robust and, particularly with druid and alchemist, fit into their roles unconventionally.
Straight rogue or ninja would probably also be a good choice.
For the pet, take some off-class ranks in Handle Animal and buy a dog. Then, it's "your dog knows tricks X, Y, and Z. That's what it can do." That keeps the pet from overshadowing the character while still keeping it useful.
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To give you guys a little more information our party is 6 members large right now she will be the seventh. We are currently
1. Me a paladin summoner Gish going dragon disciple then eldritch knight.
2. An urban ranger who is the current rogue of the party
3. A life oracle (our current healer)
4. A monk with 3 archetypes but still pretty much a close combatant monk.
5. A half orc barbarian
6. And a druid that I believe is forsaking his animal companion for spell casting.
no one is really optimized we all just wanted some flavor characters since our last game turned into an arms race and almost destroyed our group. My arcane casting and umd are attempting to replace a real arcane caster i.e. wizard/sorcerer.
I just can’t play a wizard or sorcerer without power gaming so another person with some umd and skills to make up for some of the spells I like to use will be nice.
Any advice on furthering the ninja idea guys. I looked at inquisitor and still I am just not impressed and it seems more difficult than the ninja currently does.
Any idea on traits feats and tricks would be appreciated.
You are going to be 7 players + 1 GM? OMG! You should drop the pet idea in this case. Combats will take an eternity if you have pets around.
Maybe dodge and mobility for more survivability and easier flanking. Traits you could do savannah child for handle animal.
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My first thought is that perhaps a newbie player's first campaign shouldn't be one described as "lethal". They are likely to die, and quickly, and the more they like their shiny new character the more bummed out they will be when the end comes. The high stats from a 30-point buy may thus provide almost a false sense of confidence. But obviously you're already in a game, so the point is moot.
That said, the build sounds pretty good, but for me the key thing is always the "cool factor" of the entire character package. If you're really into your character then you're more likely to be engaged during play. And with a newbie (particularly your fiancé) you want them to really get into the game. Another important thing is how that character fits into the overall party composition. If they end up stuck with a party role they don't like (tank, face, healer, skill monkey, etc.) then they may not enjoy playing.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Best advice? Find 1-2 more players and split the group. 7 seems to be the threshold of un-fun due to large group size. I get that she's your fiancee--I married our group's 7th player. After having just split the group into two groups of 5, we're all a lot happier with the game.
Thanks to the Gamemastery Condition Cards and the new Buff Cards, it makes keeping track of abilities and what they do allot easier.
For example: on a Barbarian you could keep the Rage cards and the Fatigue condition card on hand.