+1 Caster Level

[Fromper]

So I'm looking at the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype, and they get a Varisian Tattoo that gives them +1 CL on one school and their bloodline spells. The obvious use for this is to pick Evocation and get an extra d6 every time you throw a fireball or similar blast spell that gets a die per level of damage.

But what other types of spells benefit from an increased caster level? I know most spells get an increased duration and range, but that's usually minor enough not to really matter. Are there any spells that have an increased DC or something based on the caster level?

Or to put it another way, is there a good reason to do Varisian Tattoo on anything other than evocation? Or to do a tattooed sorcerer that isn't blasting focused?

[Azten]

Any spell with a duration based on levels benefits from Varisian Tattoo, and spells that have level based effects, like Phantom Steed, do too.

[doctor_wu]

Conjuration helps some if you summon a lot and use buffs taht depend on duration. I was actually thinking of getting this on a druid.
Tatooed sorceror +burning hands can be useful for blasting. I think transmutation will also help make some buffs more powerful.

[Timothy Hanson]

I do not have my books on hand at the moment, but Dispel Magic comes to mind as benefiting from a +1 CL. Probably not nearly enough as much as Fireball would though, or at least as often. Enchantment Spells that have x targets per y CL would also. Anything you do not want dispelled would benefit as well. Summons would get an extra round. So there are other things that get benefits, but I agree damage spells get the best bump from it. Necromancy also has some damage spells, so that could also be a fine choice. The increased CL might apply to Spell Penetration too, which would be helpful for some other schools.

[Nephril]

increased caster level also equals harder to dispel and more likely to overcome spell resistance.

[tonyz]

A number of necromancy spells depend on caster level, e.g. vampiric touch and wail of the banshee.

[Douglas Muir 406]

+1 CL is best for blasting, it's true. But it does help with lots of other stuff. Summoned creatures hang around for an extra round, which is a big deal at low levels. You get another couple of hit dice of creature from Raise Dead. If you use Mage Armor a lot -- and if you're an arcane caster, good chance you do -- you get an extra hour per day. And so forth.

I could see taking a V-tat for several other schools, if not for the "Spell Focus" requirement. That makes it less attractive for some schools. Abjuration, for instance -- there are plenty of abjuration spells that would benefit from +1 ECL, but very few abjuration spells require saves, which means that Spell Focus is a wasted feat in this case.

Doug M.

[Ravingdork]

I like high CLs for Dispel Magic and Greater Dispelling. I have a 15th-level character who dispels as a 22nd-level character, and also stuns and penalizes enemies whose effects he dispels.

[Interzone]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

+1 CL is best for blasting, it's true. But it does help with lots of other stuff. Summoned creatures hang around for an extra round, which is a big deal at low levels. You get another couple of hit dice of creature from Raise Dead. If you use Mage Armor a lot -- and if you're an arcane caster, good chance you do -- you get an extra hour per day. And so forth.

I could see taking a V-tat for several other schools, if not for the "Spell Focus" requirement. That makes it less attractive for some schools. Abjuration, for instance -- there are plenty of abjuration spells that would benefit from +1 ECL, but very few abjuration spells require saves, which means that Spell Focus is a wasted feat in this case.

Doug M.

But when you get it for free without the spell focus requirement, as a tatooed sorcerer does, it opens up more worthwhile options!

[Douglas Muir 406]

BTW, a popular build tactic is to combine V-tat with something else that boosts your output. For instance, V-tat + draconic bloodline = +1 ECL + 1 hp/die extra damage. At 1st level, that means your Burning Hands do 2d4+2 instead of 1d4 -- more than double damage. At 5th level, your Fireball is 6d6+6 -- 27 hp on average, which is better than a non-boosted Fireball at 7th level. Pile on metamagic feats or stuff like Gnome Pyromaniac and you can get some crazy high numbers.

Doug M.

[Adamantine Dragon]

I built an optimized lightning-based sorcerer that was doing insane damage with boosted CL, bloodline, maxmiize metamagic and a few metamagic rods...

He was like a walking tesla coil.

Our group went into a room in a dungeon crawl, saw it was full of nasties, and decided to retreat, but he withheld his action as everyone else ran down the hallway, moved back from the door and let loose with a maximized, enlarged, electrified fireball and there wasn't much left but some grease spots.

I retired him after that. He was just insanely powerful compared to the rest of the party.

[LazarX]

Remember that these boosted caster levels don't allow you to go past the level cap for the spell itself. i.e. Fireball tops out at 10d6 unless it's Intensified.

[Animation]

LazarX,

If it is intensified tho, it can hit 15d6. EDIT: oops you mentioned that. My bad.

Ravingdork,

What feats and/or items accomplished the dazing and stunning?

Thanks!

[hogarth]

Vomit Swarm is a curiosity, in the sense that it's one of the only conjuration (summoning) spells that scales based on caster level.

EDIT: It's not a sorcerer spell, though.

[Fromper]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

BTW, a popular build tactic is to combine V-tat with something else that boosts your output. For instance, V-tat + draconic bloodline = +1 ECL + 1 hp/die extra damage. At 1st level, that means your Burning Hands do 2d4+2 instead of 1d4 -- more than double damage. At 5th level, your Fireball is 6d6+6 -- 27 hp on average, which is better than a non-boosted Fireball at 7th level. Pile on metamagic feats or stuff like Gnome Pyromaniac and you can get some crazy high numbers.

Doug M.

Yeah, I was already thinking Tattooed Draconic Sorcerer is probably a great blaster build. Draconic bloodline is just so cliche, though. I'd rather do something different, just to be different. That's why my non-damaging, controller sorcerer is Deep Earth bloodline - nobody ever uses that bloodline, but it's got some stuff to go with the controller theme.

And around here, Tattooed Sorcerer is different - I've never seen one. But I was drawn to it entirely for fluff reasons before I even looked into the details of the archetype, and now I'm trying to pick a bloodline that goes well with it, besides the too obvious draconic.

I want to pick a bloodline that benefits from the archetype without being too stereotypical. I was shooting for a more balanced build, something half way between a pure blaster and the pure controller of my other sorcerer. That's why I asked for ideas other than evocation that benefit from the +1 CL. But maybe I'll pick a bloodline without considering the Varisian Tattoo, go evocation with the tattoo, and pick up a couple of blasting spells. That way, I'll have some blasting and some non-blasting, and have a relatively balanced character whose blasting happens to be slightly better than normal because of the tattoo.

I think the main thing to consider with the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype is that you give up the 1st and 9th level bloodline powers, eschew materials, and 7th level bloodline feat. So if there's a bloodline where I wouldn't miss that stuff, but I like the other aspects of the bloodline, then that's a bloodline that will pair well with the archetype. It might not be as uber-optimized as Tattooed Draconic would be, but it'll be good enough for me.

[Ravingdork]

Animation wrote:

LazarX,

If it is intensified tho, it can hit 15d6. EDIT: oops you mentioned that. My bad.

Ravingdork,

What feats and/or items accomplished the dazing and stunning?

Thanks!

See for yourself.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Fromper wrote:

I want to pick a bloodline that benefits from the archetype without being too stereotypical. [...] I think the main thing to consider with the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype is that you give up the 1st and 9th level bloodline powers, eschew materials, and 7th level bloodline feat. So if there's a bloodline where I wouldn't miss that stuff, but I like...

So you want bloodlines where (1) you won't miss the 1st and 9th level bloodline powers, and (2) there's some synergy with the Tattoo. Okay. Two recommendations: Stormborn and Maestro.

Stormborn, the 1st level power is pretty stupid (modest buff on a weapon, requires a standard action, short duration), so you won't miss it much. The 9th level power is decent but not amazing. And it offers some nice synergies: +1 to the DCs of electricity and sonic spells, and +1 from your Sorceror's Tattoo on the DCs for Shocking Grasp, Lightning, and Shout. (And thematically, being a Stormborn Sorceror who is covered in frickin' tattoos is pretty metal.)

Maestro, the 1st level power is really stupid; you'll never use it and won't notice it's gone. The 9th level power, OTOH, is fantastic, one of the best: you can talk to anything that can understand speech, like constant permanent Tongues and Speak With Whatever, *and* you get a bonus +1 DC on a bunch of spells (everything that's language-dependent, which is quite a few). It'll hurt to give that up. OTOH, you get +1 ECL on verbal-only spells, which offers some really nice synergies -- especially if you invest a feat in Still Spell. And being a tattooed musician works too.

cheers,

Doug M.

[Aranai]

Ravingdork wrote:

See for yourself.

My count is only +4 CL for greater dispel magic (+2 from Spell Specialization, +1 from the Ioun stone, +1 from the Varisian Tattoo); what am I missing there?

EDIT: Messed up quote syntax.

[Turin the Mad]

Ravingdork wrote:

Animation wrote:

LazarX,

If it is intensified tho, it can hit 15d6. EDIT: oops you mentioned that. My bad.

Ravingdork,

What feats and/or items accomplished the dazing and stunning?

Thanks!

See for yourself.

Ooof, one lucky dispel check or nomming on a disjunction and that chap's in trouble. What's the character's actual age? At 15th level I can't imagine he's that close to the starting age range of Venerable...

[Ravingdork]

Turin the Mad wrote:

Ooof, one lucky dispel check or nomming on a disjunction and that chap's in trouble. What's the character's actual age? At 15th level I can't imagine he's that close to the starting age range of Venerable...

You can bet your arse that he will be using one of his many trump cards in those kinds of situations (such as using moment of prescience to get a +16 bonus on his Will saves to negate the effects of disjunction against him). If nothing else, he can teleport away with his next action, making the dispelling attempt pointless, short of having quickened magic.

As for dispel magic or greater dispelling, well, that's what spell turning is for. :)

More than likely though, he will turn into an earth elemental, go underground, and re-cast a few buffs and summon a bunch of nasties to soften up his foe from almost complete safety.

He's not perfect (no one character it), but he's got a lot of trump cards, backup plans, and a multitude of means of escape and/or dealing with the unexpected.

[Turin the Mad]

Ravingdork wrote:

Turin the Mad wrote:

Ooof, one lucky dispel check or nomming on a disjunction and that chap's in trouble. What's the character's actual age? At 15th level I can't imagine he's that close to the starting age range of Venerable...

You can be your arse that he will be using one of his many trump cards in those kinds of situations (such as using moment of prescience to get a +16 bonus on his Will saves to negate the effects of disjunction against him). If nothing else, he can teleport away with his next action, making the dispelling attempt pointless, short of having quickened magic.

More than likely though, he will turn into an earth elemental, go underground, and re-cast a few buffs and summon a bunch of nasties to soften up his foe from almost complete safety.

:) disjunction allows the save for his items - what I'd be concerned about is the 'age warding' spell going *pop*, since all concurrently operating spells are automatically dispelled.

[Ravingdork]

Aranai wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

See for yourself.

My count is only +4 CL for greater dispel magic (+2 from Spell Specialization, +1 from the Ioun stone, +1 from the Varisian Tattoo); what am I missing there?

EDIT: Messed up quote syntax.

Don't forget, Spell Perfection doubles all set numerical bonuses to the spell from a feat.

The count is +7 CL for greater dispel magic (+4 from Spell Specialization, +1 from the Ioun stone, +2 from the Varisian Tattoo). It could have been +9 if I had taken Additional Traits (gifted adept), but I REALLY wanted quickened greater dispelling to be possible.

[Azten]

Would Spell Perfection double the 50% bonus from Empower Spell?

[Ravingdork]

Turin the Mad wrote:

:) disjunction allows the save for his items - what I'd be concerned about is the 'age warding' spell going *pop*, since all concurrently operating spells are automatically dispelled.

Disjunction says Will save negates. That means he is unaffected should he make his Will save. The fact that it also says (object) doesn't mean he doesn't get a save of his own. Take a look at the Magic chapter under saves:

Excerpt:

(object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects. A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + 1/2 the item's caster level.

Azten wrote:

Would Spell Perfection double the 50% bonus from Empower Spell?

I'm leaning towards no. The feat has to apply a "set numerical bonus." Empower spell doesn't apply a set numerical bonus, it changes the amount of damage dealt (and the fact that it is a percentage of a variable makes it a variable itself).

[Drejk]

"feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus"

I doubt that +50% could be considered a set numerical bonus if I understand meaning of set in this context right.

EDIT: Ninjadorked. Or maybe Ravingninjed?

[Turin the Mad]

Ravingdork wrote:

Turin the Mad wrote:

:) disjunction allows the save for his items - what I'd be concerned about is the 'age warding' spell going *pop*, since all concurrently operating spells are automatically dispelled.

Disjunction says Will save negates. That means he is unaffected should he make his Will save. The fact that it also says (object) doesn't mean he doesn't get a save of his own. Take a look at the Magic chapter under saves:

You're overlooking the first words in disjunction's descriptive text:

"All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are unraveled and destroyed completely (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item for the duration of this spell. An item in a creature's possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor's Will save bonus, whichever is higher. If an item's saving throw results in a natural 1 on the die, the item is destroyed instead of being suppressed.

You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined."

Note the "..., and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save..." part ?

Will negates (object) means that the OBJECTS get to save, not the SPELLS you have up all day. :)

PFSRD linkage for your convenience.

Bolded for emphasis. Items get saving throws. Spells and spell-like effects are disjoined automatically. Note that disjunction does not call for a dispel check, it states "ending the effect ...". The 'check' is automatic, the spells pop, your items don't. (If any do, that's icing on the cake.) The big fear for buff-dependant characters/groups is not the items popping, it's the BUFFS popping.

EDIT: Dispel Magic and its cousins don't allow a saving throw and ignore SR. Disjunction allows saves for items, not against the automatic dispel.

[Douglas Muir 406]

...anyway. Infernal Bloodline is also a contender. You lose the so-so power to deliver the Shaken condition with a touch (why does Paizo love these touch attacks that put the squishy arcane caster right next to the monster?) and the 9th level hellfire strike (okay but not great, basically a short-range fireball that adds the Shaken condition on top). Infernal bloodline gives you +2 to the DC of any charm spells, which definitely could work with an Enchantment tattoo -- boost those save DCs up and up again. And then your tat gives you +1 on bloodline spells, which include such popular picks as Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Charm Monster, and Dominate Person. (In fact, if I'm reading this right, you'd get +3 DC on Suggestion and Charm Monster -- +2 for the bloodline arcana, +1 from your tat.)

So that's three bloodlines, all of which would offer some synergies, andwould not require you to give up anything too painful. And they'd all look good in tattoos!

cheers,

Doug M.

[doctor_wu]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

...anyway. Infernal Bloodline is also a contender. You lose the so-so power to deliver the Shaken condition with a touch (why does Paizo love these touch attacks that put the squishy arcane caster right next to the monster?) and the 9th level hellfire strike (okay but not great, basically a short-range fireball that adds the Shaken condition on top). Infernal bloodline gives you +2 to the DC of any charm spells, which definitely could work with an Enchantment tattoo -- boost those save DCs up and up again. And then your tat gives you +1 on bloodline spells, which include such popular picks as Scorching Ray, Suggestion, Charm Monster, and Dominate Person. (In fact, if I'm reading this right, you'd get +3 DC on Suggestion and Charm Monster -- +2 for the bloodline arcana, +1 from your tat.)

So that's three bloodlines, all of which would offer some synergies, andwould not require you to give up anything too painful. And they'd all look good in tattoos!

cheers,

Doug M.

/It adds Caster level not dc.

[jjaamm]

Thinking of D.D. and teleport, so can take more allies with you. V. Tat and S. perfect gives you one more person to take.

[Fromper]

Yeah, as Doctor Wu pointed out, it's CL, not DC. If it was DC, it would be useful for a lot more spells. As CL, it's extra useful on certain spells, but nearly worthless on a lot of others.

I'll take a look at those suggested bloodlines, though. There are a lot that have melee touch attacks as the 1st level power, so I won't mind giving those up.

Actually, I was looking at the Oni bloodline from the Dragon Empires Primer. It has a melee touch 1st level power that I don't mind losing, and a great set of bonus spells, including Ray of Enfeeblement and Cone of Cold that directly benefit from the CL boost of the tattoo.

[Ravingdork]

It just occurred to me that my dispeller isn't harmed/hindered by disjunction any more or less than anyone else. Kinda makes the whole side-discussion kinda' moot.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Fromper wrote:

Yeah, as Doctor Wu pointed out, it's CL, not DC. If it was DC, it would be useful for a lot more spells. As CL, it's extra useful on certain spells, but nearly worthless on a lot of others.

1) You're right -- it's CL, not DC. My bad.

2) Holy crap, the 1st level Oni power is worthless. 1d4/round nonlethal damage, for rounds equal to your level, on a touch attack? Wow. That may be the single dumbest bloodline power ever. Yeah, you're not giving up much there.

-- Anyway. It can be helpful to plot out a few levels to see where the synergies are. For instance, Stormborn Sorceror gives you Shocking Grasp as a bonus spell at 3rd level, and +1 DC on electrical spells. So, start a human sorceror with Tattooed Sorceror, Spell Focus (evocation), and Point-Blank Shot (hey, you'll use it with your crossbow). If you're using a point build, take 17 Cha and 12 Dex. At 3rd level take Range Spell, and at 4th bump your Cha. You can now throw Shocking Grasp 3x/day as a ranged touch spell with a range of 35 feet; your touch attack will be a respectable +4, and you'll do 5d6+1 of electrical damage with a nice high save DC. That'll be your go-to damage spell for the next two or three levels. By 7th or 8th level it will be fading, because its damage is capped at 5d6, but by then you'll have Lightning Bolt to play with -- and, again, at +1 CL and +2 DC.

I haven't tried Tattooed Sorceror yet myself, so I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you!

cheers,

Doug M.

[Drejk]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

2) Holy crap, the 1st level Oni power is worthless. 1d4/round nonlethal damage, for rounds equal to your level, on a touch attack? Wow. That may be the single dumbest bloodline power ever. Yeah, you're not giving up much there.

Continuous damage - enforces concentration checks when casting. Nonlethal - great when you want to capture someone alive. Requires some work and correct circumstances to be used efficiently but is better than some other abilities.

[Fromper]

Yeah, I'm with Drejk on this one. I was gonna say that Oni ability is better than some of the other melee touch attack bloodline powers. But it's still a melee attack, which isn't what a pure sorcerer wants, which is why I'm good with losing it for a familiar if I go Tattooed. The melee 1st level bloodline powers are really only good for melee classes dipping into sorc for a level or two, not for pure sorcerers, who almost never want to be on the front line.

As for Doug's Stormborn suggestion, I think you lost me on the math in your example. Where are you getting the +4 to hit and +1 damage on that Shocking Grasp?

Actually, the fact that you don't get Shocking Grasp until level 3 kinda sucks for that build. If I could take the spell at level 1, I'd go with Magical Lineage on it, with Reach Metamagic as my first feat, and it'd have a 30 foot range immediately, making it my go to spell for levels 1-6, until I get Lightning Bolt at level 7. But having to wait until level 3 to get Shocking Grasp as a bloodline spell means having to find something else to do in combat for levels 1 and 2.

But it's probably still a good combo to take Magical Lineage on Shocking Grasp, then take the Reach Metamagic feat at level 3, so I can cast it with 35 foot range as soon as I get it, as a 1st level spell.

Now that I think about it, that combo works on any bloodline. Anyone can take Shocking Grasp, Magical Lineage, and Reach Metamagic at 1st level. Use the tattoo on evocation spells, and you can hit things from 30 feet away with 2d6 damage right from level 1. But then, you're not maximizing whatever bloodline you choose the way you would be if SG was a bloodline spell. But it would rock the damage at low levels, without having to wait to get the spell at level 3.

I'll have to look at a few things and think about it.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Drejk wrote:

Continuous damage - enforces concentration checks when casting.

As I was writing my earlier post, I was thinking "now someone will pop up to say it's actually useful, if super situational". Because that's how the internet works, yah?

Well, let's see. First of all I, a squish arcane caster, will have to stand next to another squish caster. (The enemy caster really should be far back behind the front line, so that I have to get past his meat shield minions, so this is actually worse than standing next to an orc or whatever). Now I make a touch attack and succeed: hurrah! Continuous damage concentration DC is 10 + 1/2 damage dealt + spell level, so most rounds that will be 11 + spell level. However! "If the last damage dealt was the last damage that the effect could deal, then the damage is over and does not distract you." So this has no effect on the last round -- meaning that at first level, when it only lasts a single round, it does not force a concentration check. Which means, let us note, that it's worthless even as a dip power.

But okay, let's say I'm second level. Now my caster enemy will have to make that check! Say he's second level too, and is trying to throw a first level spell, and has a 16 Int -- reasonable, yes? Well, he's trying to make a DC 12 check at +5 on the roll, meaning he will make it 75% of the time. I've put my precious hide at risk for a 25% chance of making the enemy fumble a spell.

"But at higher levels, he'll have to roll more often!" True enough. At 6th level, the enemy caster would take 5 rounds of continuous damage, meaning 5 concentration checks if he tries to cast. On the other hand, assuming the enemy caster is also 6th level, and has bumped his Int to 18 by now, he's rolling at +10 on the die. To cast, he has to make a DC 12 to DC 14 check -- meaning that he has between 85% and 95% chance of making it in any given round. By middle levels, pretty much all level-equivalent opponents will be effectively immune to this power; they'll make their concentration checks even on a 1.

Quote:

Nonlethal - great when you want to capture someone alive.

Yes, if you can do significant amounts of nonlethal damage. Which 1d4/round for rounds/level? Just is not.

You'd have to be 3rd level before you could subdue a single orc. (That's a single average, ordinary, Cr 1/2 orc with no character levels.) You run up, make a touch attack that has a 45% chance of failure (BAB +1 against the orc's touch AC 10), suck up the enraged orc's counterattack, then withdraw and wait for two rounds. Your chance of beating the orc's hp is about 80% (rolling 3d4 vs. d10+1)... but, oh dear, multiply that by your 55% chance of hitting and your total chance of success is actually less than even. And even if you do succeed, it's going to take three rounds for the orc to drop. Hm.

Or you could just throw a Sleep spell at the orc! Wham, 80% chance of success against his -1 Will Save. Or have the monk use Stunning Fist. Or let the barb or the fighter strike for nonlethal damage, or the bard use Fascinate, or the rogue sneak up behind him with a cosh... it's not like the game lacks different methods by which to capture someone alive. But there's basically no situation in which "I run up to the monster and do a touch attack for 1d4 nonlethal/round for rounds/level" is a good idea. Seriously. That's just a nonstarter.

Doug M.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Fromper wrote:

As for Doug's Stormborn suggestion, I think you lost me on the math in your example. Where are you getting the +4 to hit and +1 damage on that Shocking Grasp?

At 4th level: +2 BAB +1 Dex +1 from Point-Blank Shot = +4. Then PBS gives +1 on damage as well. Not saying this is fantastic -- you have to make a ranged touch attack, which means you'll miss about a third of the time, and then the enemy gets a save, albeit a high one. But at 4th level, being able to deal 15 or 20 points damage/round from a safe distance, with the occasional delightful crit, is pretty decent.

Fromper wrote:

Actually, the fact that you don't get Shocking Grasp until level 3 kinda sucks for that build.

I agree. Under the RAW, you have to wait for your bloodline spells -- take them early and you lose the bonus. Yes, that's obnoxious, but that's how the rule works if you're playing it straight. Which is why bloodline spells should be utility and thematic, not spells you will want to take right away. Skimming the bloodlines, you cans see that some of Paizo's writers understood this while others did not.

Fromper wrote:

But having to wait until level 3 to get Shocking Grasp as a bloodline spell means having to find something else to do in combat for levels 1 and 2.

Ear-Piercing Scream. Decent spell to begin with, and you get +1 DC for being Stormborn, and the +1 ECL helps too -- it's d6/two levels, so you get more damage a little sooner. If you've taken Spell Focus (Evocation) and have at least a 16 Cha, then you have an excellent chance of dazing most foes at low levels.

Doug M.

[Fromper]

Hmm, it looks like the tattoo bonus would stack with the +1 CL to a single spell from the Gifted Adept trait. I wonder if it would be worth using that combo to get +2 CL on one spell.

Having to pick a single spell might be tough though. There are a few blasting spells that would benefit from it, but only for a couple of levels until they reach max damage for that spell.

I guess that's the best thing about the archetype - the tattoo affects a whole school of magic, plus your bloodline spells.

[Douglas Muir 406]

If you're going that route, a blasty spell makes sense. The problem is, at low levels most blasty spells are capped at 5 dice of damage. OTOH, throwing 3d4 of damage with Burning Hands at 1st level is pretty sweet. If you're going this route, consider the feat that adds five dice to your cap -- it can keep these low level spells attractive for another five levels. Or, alternately, put your Gifted Adept on Fireball, then be very patient and wait.

The tattoo affecting a whole school of magic /plus/ your bloodline spells is actually rather neat and clever -- it encourages you to pay attention and plan ahead, which IMO is always a good thing.

Doug M.

[doctor_wu]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

If you're going that route, a blasty spell makes sense. The problem is, at low levels most blasty spells are capped at 5 dice of damage. OTOH, throwing 3d4 of damage with Burning Hands at 1st level is pretty sweet. If you're going this route, consider the feat that adds five dice to your cap -- it can keep these low level spells attractive for another five levels. Or, alternately, put your Gifted Adept on Fireball, then be very patient and wait.

The tattoo affecting a whole school of magic /plus/ your bloodline spells is actually rather neat and clever -- it encourages you to pay attention and plan ahead, which IMO is always a good thing.

Doug M.

I think fighting agianst that as an npc would be annoying.

[Fromper]

While the Gifted Adept thing looks nice at first glance, I just think it's too limited, since it only affects one spell. I think taking Magical Lineage or Focused Mind as your magic trait are probably better. But I thought I'd throw out the Gifted Adept idea, just to see if anyone had any good recommendations for spells that it would work well with that I hadn't thought of. Burning Hands and Magic Missile would seem to be the obvious choices - extra damage at 1st level is a good thing.

[jjaamm]

Gifted, V-tat, and spell perfect= +4cl. add in toppling spell feat and MM knocks them down.

[Fromper]

jjaamm wrote:

Gifted, V-tat, and spell perfect= +4cl. add in toppling spell feat and MM knocks them down.

What do you mean spell perfect? I found a feat called Spell Perfection, but that doesn't seem to be what you're talking about.

[rashiakas]

He probably means spell specialization.

[jjaamm]

yea, that. sorry shouldnt rely on memory at this age. Thanks rashiakas

[Fromper]

Hmm... didn't know about Spell Specialization. Even without Gifted Adept, that could be very useful on top of the Tattoo, to get +3 CL to a single spell, especially since you can change which spell it applies to every even level (I wish you could switch spells that way with Magical Lineage and Gifted Adept).

I'm thinking put Spell Specialization on Scorching Ray at level 4, which along with the tattoo boosts the CL to 7. That means already getting two rays as soon as you get the spell, which is two ranged touch attacks for 4d6 damage each at 4th level.

[Whiskey Jack]

Fromper wrote:

I'm thinking put Spell Specialization on Scorching Ray at level 4, which along with the tattoo boosts the CL to 7. That means already getting two rays as soon as you get the spell, which is two ranged touch attacks for 4d6 damage each at 4th level.

That is pretty awesome... esp. since Scorching Ray doesn't get a save.

[Mabven the OP healer]

Fromper wrote:

Hmm... didn't know about Spell Specialization. Even without Gifted Adept, that could be very useful on top of the Tattoo, to get +3 CL to a single spell, especially since you can change which spell it applies to every even level (I wish you could switch spells that way with Magical Lineage and Gifted Adept).

I'm thinking put Spell Specialization on Scorching Ray at level 4, which along with the tattoo boosts the CL to 7. That means already getting two rays as soon as you get the spell, which is two ranged touch attacks for 4d6 damage each at 4th level.

Now you are getting it. Increasing caster level is most useful with spells which gain a significant increase at specific levels. Scorching ray is a great example - Mirror Image, Divine Favor, Magic Missile, and Acid Arrow also come to mind.

[Bomanz]

THE BEST TRAIT EVER SEZ HAI2U!!!!

Lest we not forget our trait-erous bretheren. BOOYAH!

[Muad'Dib]

Question: Can you exceed the caster level maxiumum listed for the spell?

For instance Burning hands maxes out at 5d4.

Would a 5th level caster with a Varisian Tattoo be able to do 6d4?

Are there any abilities that can exceed the listed spell max?

[rashiakas]

Intensified Spell can get you an additional 5 levels for +1 spell level.