So im building a character for a campaign centered around outsiders (chaos)
Trying to decide if I should go TWF ranger or Fighter. Rangers get a lot of the feats for free, without needing the redic. dex mod, allowing them to focus heavy on str. At the same time, fighters get so many feats.
So, any opinions on which i should go? Or should i just go with a tride and true 2 handed beat stick. Cause that is always an option.
I'm limited to PHB, APG, UC, and UM as far as books go.
Thanks in advance.
Either fighter or ranger could be a two handed beat stick.
Try a sample build, or at least the feat trees, and see how comparable they are. My guess is that they'd be about even, with the rangers ability to ignore prereqs for his combat style matching the fighter ability to get more feats.
Rangers got lots more skills and some spellcasting, fighters got more combat goodies. Which is likely to be more important in your campaign?
It depends on what else you want to do in the game. The fighter does consistent damage, but the ranger will do more damage against favored enemies most likely.
The 2hander uses less feats and gets more damage, but I still like TWF'ing especially if I am using a high crit range weapon.
Gloves of dueling don't work with the weapon master because he no longer has weapon training.
Gloves of dueling don't work with the weapon master because he no longer has weapon training.The weaponmaster does have Weapon Training. It's not exactly the same as the core fighter's Weapon Training, but it's the same name and therefore works with gloves of dueling.
I guess I should check the books instead of going off of memory. :)
If most foes will be a certain type, ranger is the best choice, definitely. FE bonuses are higher than weapon training. Fighter can take feats to bridge the gap, but ranger gets other nice class features if you care about anything other than killing stuff.
Will the outsides be from the same plane? If so, your best option is Horizon Walker with some sort of Ranger/Rogue combo to lead into it. Terrain Dominance bonus can get scary high. Very scary high.
The ranger gains an advantage in feat selection through not needing to meet feat pre-reqs, and gaining some feats for free.
The fighter gains an advantage in feat selection through all the bonus fighter feats and feats that are fighter only.
For early levels rangers are probably slightly better at TWF.
For mid to upper levels fighters will beat them in TWF combat.
Rangers gain other things that some people like for their versatility and role playing potential. Things like animal companions, spells, favored enemy and terrain, etc.
I prefer rangers, but fighters will out-DPR them over a wider range of targts. Rangers will out-DPR fighters against favored enemies. Usually.
Double Slice seems like a really lame feat to take early in my opinion.
The issue is that my DM is literally insane, and loves to just screw with us, so I might just go with fighter for the sustainability. I will look into weapon master though, just for kicks. I know that if I go ranger expecting to keep fighting the same type of enemy, he is going to curve ball multiple times to try and kill me.
I might try going Crit Focus fighter, with either a scimitar & a kukuri (glove of storing) or double kukuris. Ill throw up a build in the morning.
Thanks for the ideas.
Rather large party too, if it makes a huge difference, 4 npcs and 4 other players. (summoner, magus, wizard, druid are the pcs) (bard/ranger, cleric, oracle, and wizard are the npcs)
Instant enemy makes all enemies into favored enemies.
Target one creature that is not your favored enemy.
I did mean it that way. I mean any enemy can be a favored enemy.
Sorry. I thought you were disputing what SS said. :)
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go for guide archetype.
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Instant enemy plus a few pearls of power (3rd) makes all enemies your favoured enemy.
Step one is to pick humanoid (human) and pump it by +2 every level. Upon reach level 7, hopefully you have saved up at least 9000 gp, but maybe even 18,000 gp. Get a few pearls, and use one casting of instant enemy every time you see a tough enemy. Remember to recharge in between fights, because it's a standard action to use a pearl.
I have written a twf guide for each.
Search Ginsumaster: Str Rangers guide to TWF for rangers.
and Bladestorm: Str Rangers guide to TWF for fighters.
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If you're playing in the planes you should definitely go Ranger (Guide 6) to lead in to Horizon Walker. The favoured terrain bonuses stack with the Ranger's Focus bonuses to blow away the Fighter in terms of damage if you know you're going to be fighting creatures in or from that specific environ.
The Guide arcetype also stacks with some other good Ranger arcetpyes and the additional skills will make your character far more useful outside of combat then the straight fighter.
For weapons I think Kukri's are going to be the way to go.
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So im building a character for a campaign centered around outsiders (chaos)
Trying to decide if I should go TWF ranger or Fighter. Rangers get a lot of the feats for free, without needing the redic. dex mod, allowing them to focus heavy on str. At the same time, fighters get so many feats.
I'd say go Ranger and use a double-weapon. Then you can TWF or 2HF whenever you want. Ignoring the Dex requirements is huge; it means you can go Strength primary, Con secondary and worry about everything else last.
I have written a twf guide for each.
Search Ginsumaster: Str Rangers guide to TWF for rangers.
and Bladestorm: Str Rangers guide to TWF for fighters.
Yeah I've been looking into these and I like them so far. Now its just a matter of building the better tank, considering I can go skirmisher and counter attack anything as a ranger, which is pretty badass, I'm considering that. The likelihood of a creature continuing to smack one of my allies while im counter smacking him every time is pretty unlikely. Since every other party member I have is pretty squishy.
Not really a fan of double weapons, the thought was there but it just didn't seem as good, thanks though.
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I'd say go Ranger and use a double-weapon. Then you can TWF or 2HF whenever you want. Ignoring the Dex requirements is huge; it means you can go Strength primary, Con secondary and worry about everything else last.
^The more I consider this the more I like the idea. On those occasions when you only get a standard action or during a charge you can wield the double weapon as a 2-handed weapon and get 3:1 Power Attack & 1.5 x STR mod.
The only caveat is the language pertaining to double weapons;
Double: You can use a double weapon to fight as if fighting with two weapons, but if you do, you incur all the normal attack penalties associated with fighting with two weapons, just as if you were using a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. You can choose to wield one end of a double weapon two-handed, but it cannot be used as a double weapon when wielded in this way—only one end of the weapon can be used in any given round.
If your GM lets you use a free action to change your grip at the end of a full attack you would get to make all AoO's as if using a 2-handed weapon... Then free action at start of next round to switch grip back to TWF and away you go... Based on the bolded part I don't know if this strategy would be legal for PFS play but I would allow it in my home game and see how it worked out.
It absolutely works. Problem is it aint worth a feat on a double weapon so it's either
Staff
Or Urgosh (Dwarf)
Or Double Ax (Half orc)
Usually though I pair Scimitar/Cestus for crits. If you are a ranger, stick with this until you can get a glove of storing and swap the cestus for a kukri.
If playing a Mobile or Dawnflower dervish fighter- same plan.
If playing a TWWarrior, go dual scimitar.
Samurai dual wielding Wazakaski are great as well.
It absolutely works. Problem is it aint worth a feat on a double weapon so it's either
Staff
Or Urgosh (Dwarf)
Or Double Ax (Half orc)Usually though I pair Scimitar/Cestus for crits. If you are a ranger, stick with this until you can get a glove of storing and swap the cestus for a kukri.
If playing a Mobile or Dawnflower dervish fighter- same plan.
If playing a TWWarrior, go dual scimitar.
Samurai dual wielding Wazakaski are great as well.
Decided to go with ranger. Like your guide quite a bit, but a few of the feats are barred for me, so im looking into alternatives. Also, how do you go about taking teamwork feats? I'm curious.
if your just min maxing out damage. Fighter will always win.
if your playing a rounded character with skills beyond perception and attack ranger is your best friend.
Personally I almost always play ranger.
If Tengu are allowed, their swordtraining racial trait is excellent and allows one to use two-bladed sword easily. Tengu make wonderful stealth/skill heavy rangers. Pure combat rangers with dumped INT, not so much.
Personally i'd go Half Elf Ranger using the option from the apg to swop skill focus for exotic weapon two bladed sword.
This allows for the TWF/THF options and with the spell lead blades lets you effectively dual wield great swords. :D
Two weapon Fighting Paladins are pretty nice, Just sayin.
I absolutely hate paladins XD
Decided to go with ranger. Like your guide quite a bit, but a few of the feats are barred for me, so im looking into alternatives. Also, how do you go about taking teamwork feats? I'm curious.It absolutely works. Problem is it aint worth a feat on a double weapon so it's either
Staff
Or Urgosh (Dwarf)
Or Double Ax (Half orc)Usually though I pair Scimitar/Cestus for crits. If you are a ranger, stick with this until you can get a glove of storing and swap the cestus for a kukri.
If playing a Mobile or Dawnflower dervish fighter- same plan.
If playing a TWWarrior, go dual scimitar.
Samurai dual wielding Wazakaski are great as well.
The AC gets an ability score increase. Put it in INT. When it's 3 he can take teamwork feats.
The AC gets an ability score increase. Put it in INT. When it's 3 he can take teamwork feats.Decided to go with ranger. Like your guide quite a bit, but a few of the feats are barred for me, so im looking into alternatives. Also, how do you go about taking teamwork feats? I'm curious.It absolutely works. Problem is it aint worth a feat on a double weapon so it's either
Staff
Or Urgosh (Dwarf)
Or Double Ax (Half orc)Usually though I pair Scimitar/Cestus for crits. If you are a ranger, stick with this until you can get a glove of storing and swap the cestus for a kukri.
If playing a Mobile or Dawnflower dervish fighter- same plan.
If playing a TWWarrior, go dual scimitar.
Samurai dual wielding Wazakaski are great as well.
That's what I figured. I think ill go with a wolf, seems like the prime choice. Feats i can't take are Big Game Hunter and Boon Companion, Considering Quickdraw so i can wear a different set of gloves, and maybe Iron will, so i dont fail every single will save from here to end game.