| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I'm building a Wizard (Evoker) - technically an Elven Wizard (Admixture Evoker) with a 1 level Sorcerer dip for the Cross-blooded benefits of +2 damage/die - and I'm planning on taking Spell Perfection at 15th level. The debate is which spell to use with it.
Here is a list of my feats as I'm currently planning them:
1st - Eschew Materials
1st - Combat Casting
2nd - Scribe Scroll
3rd - Spell Focus: Evocation
5th - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
6th - Craft Wand
7th - Spell Penetration
9th - Greater Spell Penetration
11th - Intensified Spell
11th - Dazing Spell
13th - Persistent Spell
15th - Spell Perfection
16th - Quicken Spell
17th - Maximize Spell
19th - Spell Mastery
At the moment I'm leaning towards Ball Lightning as my choice, with the intent of casting it as a Dazing Persistent Ball Lightning for a 6th level spell slot. Under those circumstances, each Ball (3-5 of them independently controllable as a move action) will deal 3d6+6 in damage every round, I'll be able to admixture them to counter the DR of my foes, they will overcome SR as if it were 10 less and targets will have to make a Reflex save at +4 DC twice or be Dazed for 4 rounds. And of course nothing says I can't direct multiple balls at the same target.
The character will be using Overland Flight pretty much as soon as he gets it and this seems like the ideal compliment to me. Anyone find fault with this reasoning or have a better suggestion?
I like Ball Lightning + Dazing a lot. Be sure to get a meta rod of persistent, persistent + dazing is awesome. Later on perhaps even spend some high level slots to pay for the dazing adjustment normally and use spell perfection on quicken spell, so you can have quickened dazing (persistent) ball lighting and dazing (persistent) ball lightning go off all in one round.
Seems like your looking for more of a control aspect than a damage one. So in that case i think ball lightning is fine. I picked fire snake because i wanted maximum damage output over control. Now with that said i definitly love and use dazing spell, but i tend to pair it more with fireball... Dazing Selective Fireballs can wreak havic when targeting enemies in melee with ur pally and barb.. :)
Ball Lightning can be great. Another choice is Chain Lightning to be able to hit more enemies in one round (and a bit higher save DC).
I would take quicken spell sooner than lvl 16, so you are able to cast your quickened perfected spells already at level 15.
You should consider taking Elemental Focus as well, since you have such a specialized build to raise the DCs as high as possible.
EDIT: Specifically I wouldn't take Combat Casting and Craft Wand.
Seems like your looking for more of a control aspect than a damage one. So in that case i think ball lightning is fine. I picked fire snake because i wanted maximum damage output over control. Now with that said i definitly love and use dazing spell, but i tend to pair it more with fireball... Dazing Selective Fireballs can wreak havic when targeting enemies in melee with ur pally and barb.. :)
Fireball was another one I was considering, especially with the ability to toss out a Quickened Dazing Fireball (10d6+27 damage at 15th plus saves at +8 DC or Dazed for 3 rounds) and then an Intensified Maximized Fireball (another 60+4d6+35 damage) in the opening round of combat. Its not as if I can't cast a Dazing Ball Lightning anyway... I guess it comes down to the best use of the free Metamagic feat and penalties to saves. I'm really kinda torn here.
Ball Lightning can be great. Another choice is Chain Lightning to be able to hit more enemies in one round (and a bit higher save DC).
I would take quicken spell sooner than lvl 16, so you are able to cast your quickened perfected spells already at level 15.
You should consider taking Elemental Focus as well, since you have such a specialized build to raise the DCs as high as possible.
EDIT: Specifically I wouldn't take Combat Casting and Craft Wand.
Perhaps something like this then:
1st - Eschew Materials
1st - Elemental Focus: Fire
2nd - Scribe Scroll
3rd - Spell Focus: Evocation
5th - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
6th - Greater Elemental Focus: Fire
7th - Spell Penetration
9th - Greater Spell Penetration
11th - Intensified Spell
11th - Dazing Spell
13th - Quicken Spell
15th - Spell Perfection (Fireball)
16th - Maximize Spell
17th - Persistent Spell
19th - Spell Mastery
I think I prefer using a lower level spell with my Spell Perfection choice because it will allow me to double up on meta-magic effects. Our campaign is low enough in its magic-base that having metarods available for purchase seems unlikely.
I'm actually considering working Improved Initiative in there somewhere... wasn't there a non-metamagic feat that allowed a wizard to omit targets within an area spell?
I would recommend against Chain Lightning as it can't be Quickened and you become limited in the number of metamagic feats you can apply. I actually did a cost analysis for damage of it in a previous post:
In fact, because of Quicken being a 4-level adjustment, I'd aim for Fireball or Lightning Bolt, as you can apply Intensify, Empower, Dazing, or Persistent optionally as well. Ball Lightning doesn't benefit from Intensify quite so much, and you can always cast a Dazing Ball Lightning if you need the multiple spheres over Fireball.
Fire Snake is also not bad because it doesn't really NEED Intensify, so the wiggle room on a higher level spell doesn't take much away from it. The problem is that it can't be Persistent and Dazing.
Fireball is great with spell perfection imo, as well as alot of other spells. I really love the feat. Im currently playing a homebrewish RotR camp. and at 17th level mine blaster looks like this...
Human Sorcerer 1 Crossblooded (Copper Dragon/Orc),Tattooed / Evoker (Admixture) 16
Feats:
H - Extra Traits
1st - Spell Focus
1st - Varisian Tattoo, Tattoo Familiar
2nd - Scribe Sroll
3rd - G. Spell Focus
5th - Spell Spec.
6th - Empower Spell
7th - Spell Pen.
9th - G Spell Pen.
11th - Dazing Spell
11th - Intensified Spell
13th - Quicken Spell
15th - Spell Perfection
17th - Selective Spell
I personally use firesnake as my spell spec/perf. and my open round looks like dazing empowered intense acid snake for 20d6 +40 x1.5 and followed by a quickend emp. intense acid snake for the same..
As I said it all depends on the spell you pick. Ball Lightning looks like a great spell. It gives you more ... "balls" than Flaming Sphere, and more chances to daze.
The balls can also fly and get to flying opponents.
Intensify Spell doesn't do anything for this spell though.
Is electricity your theme?
Fire is my theme if I have one as I will do +1 damage/die and have a higher save DC, but with the Evoker's Admixture ability, I can make any spell fire or any fire spell something else.
Fireballs deal a maximum of 10d6 - Intensify spell increases that to 15d6. Moreover, since I'm getting +2 damage/die, I'm really getting an additional 5d6+10 damage out of the feat which only raises the spell 1 level.
I personally use firesnake as my spell spec/perf. and my open round looks like dazing empowered intense acid snake for 20d6 +40 x1.5 and followed by a quickend emp. intense acid snake for the same..
Firesnake was the third of the spells I was considering. It raises the DC a little and removes the need for both Selective Spell and Intensify Spell - am I right in thinking that the beginning of the Fire Snake can be as far as 60' away?
Fire Snake starts at you and goes up to 60’ out, depending on level.
The fire snake affects one 5-foot square per caster level, and each square must be adjacent to the previous square, starting with you.
Is firesnake a pathfinder spell? Are all the rules in this thread strictly pathfinder, such as the admixture evoker? I dont have my books with me so I cant check.
I ask because I am gonna make a goblin sorcerer (wildblood sage) who casts with int. It never occurred to me to only take one level pf sorc for crossblooded damage dice but to then go evoker. Wow.
Not sure I will, but cool idea.
Located in the APG
Fire Snake
School evocation [fire]; Level druid 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a snake scale)
Range 60 ft.
Area see text
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
You create a sinuous line of flames that you may shape as desired. The fire snake affects one 5-foot square per caster level, and each square must be adjacent to the previous square, starting with you. The fire snake may not extend beyond its maximum range. Creatures in the path of the fire snake take 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level
Max 15d6
Yea i wouldnt normally suggest taking crossblooded for full sorc levels as it severly gimps ur spells.. From 2nd level spells on youll have to wait an entire level to get any spells known, unless u repeadtly take the Expanded Arcana feat which again gimps u bc u have take the same dam feat over and over..
If u wanna make a blaste sorc 1 (crossblooded)/evoker x is the way to and depending on ur dm take the tattooed sorc archetype as well...
Ive also read a post or 2 on how druid can make execellent blasters too. I wish Arcane Hierophant prc would return...
What is it about tattooed that GMs dont like?
Well its not that they dont like it, its that theres some controversey as to wether it and the crossblooded archetype both modify the bloodline power.. At 1st level the tattoo sorc gets tattoo familiar, which replaces the 1st level bloodline power. Crossblooded allows you to pick from either of the bloodline powers granted from the 2 bloodlines. Some argue that crossblooded modifies the bloodline power instead of just allowing you to pick from 2 diff ones and by doing that doesnt allow the tattoo archtype to be playable with it.. I see it as (and my dm) not modifying it, but just allowing u to pick from either, so therefore the tatoo archtype would work with it.. Regardless of the debate if your dm will allow it go for it because haveing ur familiar part of ur body and swappin eschew mats for varisian tattoo feat is aswesome.
You know, I think that the best spell for Spell Perfection is Baleful Polymorph.
You are using 5th level slots, but you can get the save DC up to 9th level and neutralize one opponent per round (more with feats). I have seen this in action, and it was actually surprisingly powerful.
Such a great schtick too.
What about Spell Specialization?
My Fey-blooded sorcerer is planning on taking Hold Monster with Spell Perfection. Once I get it I'll be able to toss out a Persistant, Quickened Hold Monster that requires two DC 30 Will Saves to avoid.
i keep seeing dragon/orc cross blooded and then admixture wizards.
would an orc/elemental cross blooded work as well? you would get unlimited swaps to the element of your choice and then you could also potentially chose a different arcane school?
Spell Specialization taken at level 1 gives you +5 average damage to Burning Hands, then grants +7 average damage to Burning Arc, or gets you your second ray with Scorching ray at level 5 depending on your 2nd level choice. Then when you gain Fireball it immediately does +7 average damage to that too.
You can obviously then move it to your Cone of Cold/Dragons Breath/Fire Snake as you wish.
That's got to be worth a Feat slot imo.
I prefer using it on Summon Monster/Nature's Ally along with Augmented Summoning and/or Superior Summoning. 1d3 + 2 summoned monsters with +8 to Str and Con. In the hands of a Master Summoner, it just gets nasty. Not as flashy as using it on SoD/SoS spells though.
+8? Where are you getting that?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Battering Blast from Dungeons of Golarion is almost impossible to beat for direct damage.
School evocation (force); Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one creature or unattended object
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex partial (see text); Spell Resistance yes
You hurl a fist-sized ball of force resembling a sphere of spikes to ram a designated creature or object. You must succeed on a ranged touch attack to strike your target. On a successful hit, you deal 1d6 points of force damage per two caster levels (maximum 5d6). For every 5 caster levels you possess beyond 5th, you gain a second ball of force.
A creature struck by any of these is subject to a bull rush attempt. The force has a Strength modifier equal to your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma modifier (whichever is highest). The CMB for the force’s bull rush uses your caster level as its base attack bonus, adding the force’s Strength modifier and a +10 bonus for each additional blast directed against the same target. Each sphere of force makes its own separate bull rush attempt—if multiple spheres strike one target, you make multiple CMB checks but only take the highest result to determine success. If the bull rush succeeds, the force pushes the creature away from you in a straight line, and the creature must make a Reflex save or fall prone.
This spell pushes an unattended object struck by it 20 feet away from you, provided it weighs no more than 25 pounds per level (maximum 250 pounds). This spell cannot move creatures or objects beyond your range. Used on a door or other obstacle, the spell attempts a Strength check to destroy it if the sheer damage inflicted by the spell doesn’t do the job.
It has high damage output, is a force effect (and thus bypasses energy resistances and effects incorporeal creatures), targets the Reflex saves of multiple foes (making it ideal for the Dazing Spell feat), benefits from both caster level, DC increases, and numerous metamgagic feats (making it ideal for Spell Perfection), can bull rush colossal dragons or move heavy unattended items with ease, breaks down barriers like a rock through paper, etc.
As far as direct damage spells go, it's easily the best overall choice.
Battering Blast from Dungeons of Golarion is almost impossible to beat for direct damage.
** spoiler omitted **
It has high damage output, is a force effect (and thus bypasses energy resistances and effects incorporeal creatures)...
I think this is a great option, especially if you're already doing the Magic Missile+Toppling Spell thing. You've also gotta love its utility with the various Pit spells.
.Still like Suffocate because of its save-or-suck potency, but this has the benefit of being able to target multiple foes and foes for whom suffocation isn't really a threat (constructs, undead, etc.).
I prefer using it on Summon Monster/Nature's Ally along with Augmented Summoning and/or Superior Summoning. 1d3 + 2 summoned monsters with +8 to Str and Con. In the hands of a Master Summoner, it just gets nasty. Not as flashy as using it on SoD/SoS spells though.+8? Where are you getting that?Spell Perfection doubles numerical effects from feats. The Augment Summoning feat provides +4 to Str and +4 to Con. That becomes +8 when doubled.
Superior Summoning feat provides +1 monster. That becomes +2 when doubled.
So you end up with 1d3 + 2 summoned monsters, each with +8 to Str and Con.
Hm.
.This is the first time I've seen this interpretation before. I'd have to see a ruling on the viability of this, but RAW it seems like it could be applicable exactly like you say. My initial thought it that it would grant the extra summoned creature but would not give you the +8 boost instead of +4 because Augment Summoning affects the creatures being summoned, not the spell itself.
I kinda get where you're coming from, but that feels more of a forced interpretation than what I was thinking imo. The examples they gave, such as Spell Focus, it effects the spell's DC, which then effects the target. Augment Summoning effects the Summon spells, which then effects the monsters.I prefer using it on Summon Monster/Nature's Ally along with Augmented Summoning and/or Superior Summoning. 1d3 + 2 summoned monsters with +8 to Str and Con. In the hands of a Master Summoner, it just gets nasty. Not as flashy as using it on SoD/SoS spells though.+8? Where are you getting that?Spell Perfection doubles numerical effects from feats. The Augment Summoning feat provides +4 to Str and +4 to Con. That becomes +8 when doubled.
Superior Summoning feat provides +1 monster. That becomes +2 when doubled.
So you end up with 1d3 + 2 summoned monsters, each with +8 to Str and Con.
Hm.
.
This is the first time I've seen this interpretation before. I'd have to see a ruling on the viability of this, but RAW it seems like it could be applicable exactly like you say. My initial thought it that it would grant the extra summoned creature but would not give you the +8 boost instead of +4 because Augment Summoning affects the creatures being summoned, not the spell itself.
No - something that affects the target would reduce their roll against the DC, not the DC itself.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i like fireball for this.
and, if you're able, i'd definitely suggest magical lineage [fireball] for one of your traits. that way an intensified dazing fireball is a 3rd level spell (which means you can still use a minor metamagic rod for empower, maximize, or quicken).
and i think heighten/preferred is a great choice. i ran an NPC with that combo (admixture, lineage, heighten, preferred, and perfection)- he never memorized an attack spell (unless it also served another function, like disintegrate taking down walls or something) but threw around quickened 'fire'balls of whatever element would be most effective all the time. technically, for Magical Lineage the APG says "When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level." So if you use Spell Perfection to apply quicken for free you can actually cast fireball from a 2nd level slot, for no action...
with Versatile Evocation (and/or elemental spell, which is basically free with magical lineage) you can easily alleviate that problem
|
(...) technically, for Magical Lineage the APG says "When you apply metamagic feats to this spell, treat its actual level as 1 lower for determining the spell's final adjusted level." So if you use Spell Perfection to apply quicken for free you can actually cast fireball from a 2nd level slot, for no action...
I can't find the FAQ to see if it has been updated, but Jason commented on this:
Hey there Folks,
Magical Lineage was never intended as a way for you to actually lower a spell's level. It was put in to allow you to reduce the increase from a metamagic feat. So, no unlimited magic missiles. I will see to it that the language of this ability is clarified soon and I will get this added to the FAQ.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
The DC of a spell does affect the target, so I don't see how it's any different. If the DC didn't affect the target, then the target wouldn't have to roll against it.
No - something that affects the target would reduce their roll against the DC, not the DC itself.
I think you're confusing yourself.
Think of it like an attack roll vs. an AC except in reverse. Something that improves your attack roll like a Bard's Inspire Courage or a an enhancement bonus to your weapon is not in any way affecting the person you are attacking... you're not lowering their armor class, you're increasing your attack roll.
Its the same with affecting a spell's DC vs. affecting a person's saving throw. Is a saving throw bonus from Superstition or Divine Grace affecting the DC of a spell? Of course not.