Hello.
I'm going to create a new character to begin a new PF campaign.
I'd like to build a rogue and i was wondering between the classic TWF build or the Spring Attack/Scout one.
Until now, i was sure the first one would be the best, but then i read a lot of posts about the poor chance to hit at high level witch cause the damage output to be not as amazing as it could seems.
So i was thinking about changing into the Spring Attack version because it seems at least fun to play (not a Brute one however).
The party is composed by a Destined Sorcerer, a Cleric (Heal/Fire) and a Summoner.
What do you think about it (any other suggestion as "rogue sucks" would be appreciated ^^).
Thanks in advance
I would ask your group. The less you do, the more they have to do, and that spring attack version won't do nearly as much damage as the twf version.
I'm a fan of the scout build, as it helps you to reliably get sneak attack damage even when you're not flanking. TWF is more attacks, but if those attacks are whiffs (and you have a penalty with TWF) it doesn't make that much of a difference.
What weapon were you thinking of? If you pick a bludgeoning weapon, you can really benefit from the extra damage from sap adept and sap master. (6d6+6 extra damage from sneak attack at 5th level)
I know a lot of people will suggest that ninja is better, and I agree its a lot easier to build a good ninja than it is a good rogue. But the rogue does have a very good build in the thug/scout, sap adept, sap mastery charger which does very good damage and makes enemies frightened whenever it charges. The ninja doesn't qualify for this.
Spring attack doesn't synergize well with scout until higher levels though (like say level 8 and beyond) because you'll be mostly charging before then. I'd hold off on it, it's a three feat tree and you don't have that many to spare at first level.
prototype00
I was thinking of using shortswords or daggers, and that was the big issue.
I like the philosopy behind a rogue, so building a spring attack rogue with a greataxe or stuff like that is not what i really desire, despite it would be better in term of "performances".
I would ask your group. The less you do, the more they have to do.
Sadly, you're damn right.
I was thinking of using shortswords or daggers, and that was the big issue.
I like the philosopy behind a rogue, so building a spring attack rogue with a greataxe or stuff like that is not what i really desire, despite it would be better in term of "performances".
Oh, thats fine too, I think there was someone on this board with an ultimate rogue thread which used shortswords and the scout archetype.
prototype00
If you want to play a rogue go for fun. You're not going to get efficiency.
Not even TWF you mean?
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I really, really, really don't want to turn this into a rules argument but does the Scout's Skirmisher ability even stack with Spring Attack?.
I really like the idea of a Spring Attacking Rogue. I think the in-and-out style of combat really suits the class, and gives them great battlefield mobility.
I'm working through a Spring Attack Rogue build in PFS right now, and it's turning out pretty well. I took a level in Barbarian to help with speed and beefiness, but asides from that it is Rogue all the way. Not the most optimized build, but is has a nice flavour to it.
Yes.
If you want to play a rogue go for fun. You're not going to get efficiency.Not even TWF you mean?
Sneak Attack puts out decent damage. I think what Atarlost is getting at is that the ranger and bard both out-rogue the rogue in most cases.
That does not mean the rogue can't work though.
By now thanks a lot (i've to leave the pc so i won't be able to say it later ^^).
It' would be a sleepless night.
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Couldn't you could combine the sap master build with a TWF build and use the Scout as your arcetype? The basic idea is as follows;
Wield a quarterstaff.
- When you are in position to flank use it as a double weapon.
- When you need to charge/spring attack use it as a 2 handed weapon.
I really like the idea of dipping at least 1 level into Barbarian to get the fast movement and buff to STR/CON.
If I was going this route I'd probably go STR>DEX/CON>WIS>INT>CHA for my stats. You can rank DEX ahead of STR but I'd take at least a 14 STR to qualify for Power Attack and to net the extra damage when you swing that staff like a 2 handed weapon (yes it's merely 1 extra point but it all adds up).
The party is composed by a Destined Sorcerer, a Cleric (Heal/Fire) and a Summoner.
So basically you can count on almost all the buffs and some summoned flankers? If so then a TWF rogue will not be trumped. The sorcerer and summoner can end up dimension dooring you to make sure you end up with full attacks. If they're not willing to buff and support you then you'd be better off with a charge build IMO.
Hello.
I'm going to create a new character to begin a new PF campaign.I'd like to build a rogue and i was wondering between the classic TWF build or the Spring Attack/Scout one....
Hello! I am playing a Rogue now - I went the TWF Scout build. If I had to do it again, not sure I would have gone TWF. It is rare that I get a full action, especially since I need to charge or flank to get max damage via sneak attack (I use two daggers, and even with +1 str and "river rat" the base damage is tiny). But I love the Scout option in the APG. I am now level 8 and just got "Skirmisher" which means as long as I move 10 feet, I get sneak attack (with a few exceptions). Even at low levels, however, I was dealing large blows (not huge, but substantial) every fight. The other PC's in our group are a Cleric, Wizard, and Paladin...
Scout does require you to give up Uncanny Dodge (which I recently had reason to regret, being surrounded by 4 rogues...) however overall it has been very enjoyable. I also maxed out Acrobatics, to help get me around while avoiding AoO. This build does require you to use the combat and movement rules to their fullest...
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It does? I hadn't noticed anything.This site had audio adds.
Hey Zenith. Please don't syndicate content from my blog.
Especially don't copy the content verbatim without asking me, then proceed to slap advertisements all over it. This is poor form, to say the very least.
If you pick a bludgeoning weapon, you can really benefit from the extra damage from sap adept and sap master. (6d6+6 extra damage from sneak attack at 5th level)
Couldn't you could combine the sap master build with a TWF build ...
I'm sorry but i'm kinda newbie in pf.
I don't get the point in doing nonlethal damage with sap adept and sap master. It's to make unconscious the target or there is something i'm missing?By the way the idea about using a quarterstaff is very nica :)
Sap master and sap adept help you do a lot of damage. Its 2x the amount of SA dice you can do. Granted, it's all nonlethal, but an unconscious enemy is just as good as a dead one short one coup de grace. Better even, because you can ask them questions later.
prototype00
Sap master and sap adept help you do a lot of damage. Its 2x the amount of SA dice you can do. Granted, it's all nonlethal, but an unconscious enemy is just as good as a dead one short one coup de grace. Better even, because you can ask them questions later.
Not bad. It needs a lot of feats to achieve the goal, but it seems fine. I'll give it a try :)
Not bad. It needs a lot of feats to achieve the goal, but it seems fine. I'll give it a try :)Sap master and sap adept help you do a lot of damage. Its 2x the amount of SA dice you can do. Granted, it's all nonlethal, but an unconscious enemy is just as good as a dead one short one coup de grace. Better even, because you can ask them questions later.
I could mock up a 5 level build if you're interested. :)
prototype00
I could mock up a 5 level build if you're interested.
You're too kind, don't worry :)
Just a few questions:
Points distribution will follow a Str>Con>Dex build or i have to prefer Dex over Str?
Because with 15 points i was wondering about 15 14 14 10 10 8 (without considering the +2 human racial bonus).
Concerning feats i was thinking about:
Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Bludgeoner, Sap Adept, Sap Master, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack.
I could mock up a 5 level build if you're interested.You're too kind, don't worry :)
Just a few questions:
Points distribution will follow a Str>Con>Dex build or i have to prefer Dex over Str?
Because with 15 points i was wondering about 15 14 14 10 10 8 (without considering the +2 human racial bonus).
Concerning feats i was thinking about:
Improved Initiative, Power Attack, Bludgeoner, Sap Adept, Sap Master, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack.
Damage wise, Dex and Str will end up being the same (as you'll have the agile enhancement on your weapons eventually). The main thing is that STR can be added to intimidate with the right talent, allowing you to dump charisma, while dex will make the character all round more survivable.
Depends, do you want to scare people (with the thug archetype) because you're built like a brick or because you're charmingly deranged?
You're really going for Spring attack, then? I actually have to agree with the post made previously that spring attack doesn't seem to work with either the lower or the higher level of skirmish that the scout gets. Is this a survivability thing?
Paradoxically, while at low levels I would recommend a single attack scout build, at higher levels (starting from lvl5), I would start working towards a TWF build, because with shatter defenses, you can render any enemy you hit flatfooted with a successful intimidate check. Then you can full attack them with sap master activated for quite a bit of damage.
Sorry, that probably wasn't very helpful.
prototype00