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I have a few questions about the Magus Bladebound Archetype works, particularly in the Pathfinder Society setting:
- So I know a Black Blade can be a rapier, a sword cane, or a one-handed slashing weapon. However, I'm curious whether light slashing weapons are also allowed (by virtue of them still being possible to wield in one hand, though I recognize that justification is a bit of a longshot). Mostly, I'm wondering how wide my selection is for weapon flavor purposes.
- How does/should a Bladebound acquire their weapon, in the Pathfinder Society setting? Do they purchase (or "purchase", spending gp as appropriate) it at some point, only to have it awaken when they reach the appropriate level?
- What special materials/qualities (if any) can/should a black blade possess before its awakening? Should a black blade begin as a standard (or perhaps masterwork) blade of an otherwise unremarkable nature? Or can it begin play with enchantments and/or a special material of its own?
- Aside from the flavor of the blade and the roleplaying effect on the character, should the blade's quest have any mechanical effect? (Although I can see how pretty much any quest might occasionally prove problematic when it comes to working with unknown party members for an unknown cooperative mission (even something as apparently innocuous as "restore Osirion to its former glory").
Any official ruling on these questions would be much appreciated!
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I have a newly awakened Black Blade and while I haven't seen any official rules on the subject for PFS. I basically bought my first weapon and it "became intelligent" when I took the archetype. I had no extra purchases with the sword.
This is from the PRD:
A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane.
With this I would assume any one-handed slashing weapon is allowed as long as you are proficient with it.
Also from PRD:
At 3rd level, the bladebound magus' gains a powerful sentient weapon called a black blade, whose weapon type is chosen by the magus.
As for the missions that the Black Blade has, that is fluff in terms of PFS as far as I can tell.
Hope this helps.
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I have seen a lot of rule questions that are in no way related to PFS questions and should be in the Rules Forums instead.
So I am curious so we can figure out why we are seeing this a lot recently and may be address it so they don't pop up anymore.
Why do you think there are different rules for Bladebound in PFS compared to the Regular Bladebound rules in the PF game in general?
Is it because you are not aware of the Additional Resources that go over these things? Could Additional Resources be made clearer as the resource to see if there are rule difference?
Or is it something else?
In General if it does not state in the PFS Guide, Additional Resources, or PFS FAQ that the rules for something is different for PFS then they are for the PF RPG, then the rules are exactly the same.
This is not a criticism against you, this is just me trying to see where the disconnect is.
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TBH, there is nothing about the Black Blade in the Additional Resources and it can be confusing when it alters the basic play of PFS in that your weapon (however you got it) becomes Intelligent. I think I understand the questions that are coming in (for rules) and agree they may be better off in the rules forum, but I know that they changed the layout of the messageboards recently and that may be throwing off some of the questions in PFS. To me it seems like these "PFS specific" rules questions are just from people trying to make sure their character is legal for PFS play. Maybe adding a new subsection to the PFS area that is rules focused would help? Not saying it would, but just an idea.
Just trying to help figure things out with you Dragnmoon.
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Well, there are a few reasons why I'm having trouble figuring out how a Bladebound fits into PFS. Admittedly, the range of weapon selection question would have been just as viable on the Rules Forum. As far as gaining a Black Blade, though, since it's not possible to have personalized GM assistance in fitting it into the campaign, I was wondering how it would be introduced (and whether the player should then select their particular blade, and if so, whether it should/could have certain special qualities at its introduction, since I would guess some of these things are, per normal rules, largely up to GM discretion). Also, I recognize the Black Blade's quest might not work so hot in PFS, so I was wondering if it was largely just a roleplaying tool in this setting.
Since I didn't see anything in the Additional Resources or Messageboards answering these questions (at least, not in an official capacity, as far as I could tell), I figured I'd ask and see if anyone could help me figure out the answers.
(my main goal here is to make sure I make a character who's legal for PFS play; another section to post rules questions for PFS, in particular, might help)
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I have seen a lot of rule questions that are in no way related to PFS questions and should be in the Rules Forums instead.
So I am curious so we can figure out why we are seeing this a lot recently and may be address it so they don't pop up anymore.
As someone who frequents the Rules boards, I have some input on this:
A disturbingly large proportion of responses to questions in the Rules section are basically "ask your GM" or "I run it like this" (with the latter being a house rule but only identifiable as such to someone fairly well-versed in the rules).
Sometimes the question will include something like "this is for PFS, so RAW answers only please", but the responses don't change. People either don't read thoroughly enough to catch the PFS proviso, or they don't know what that acronym means and don't bother asking, or don't understand that PFS is supposed to stick to unmodified rules, etc.
Sometimes you'll even have someone give their "interpretation" (and I use the term loosely), and the OP will come back with something like "That makes sense as a house rule, but this is for an Organized Play character, so how do you think it works by the book?" The respondent will then get visibly agitated, clearly taking offense at the suggestion that their practice might not be what the rules were saying all along.
Frankly, I don't find it surprising at all that anyone who spends a significant amount of time on the so-called "Rules" boards would come here for questions pertaining to their PFS characters.
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You can have your black blade weapon be made out of anything you like, as long as you pay for it. However, you have to be able to purchase it the second you hit level 3 (after your sixth game if you're playing only scenarios). My justification for special material black blades would be a post made by JJ here. That being said, the only thing you'll probably be able to afford is cold iron or silver. Either of which you can duplicate with weapon coatings at a cheaper price. So I wouldn't recommend making it a special material.
You don't have to do a quest or anything like that to get the weapon. Those 'flavor requirements' are waived in Pathfinder Society. You can use a quarterstaff for 2 levels and then, BOOM, purchase your black blade weapon. Or you can have a masterwork sword your whole career and make it your black blade -- it doesn't matter either way.
You have to spend gold regardless of what material makes up your weapon. You don't get your weapon for "free" (only the enhancement bonus granted by the archetype is free).
As far as "can it be a light slashing weapon" I don't know. A majority of GMs will run things as RAW rather than RAI, and with that in mind the answer you will see more often than not is no. It has to be a one handed slashing weapon. "A black blade is always a one-handed slashing weapon, a rapier, or a sword cane." I wouldn't tread in uncertainty, and just get a one handed weapon.
Or not be a blade bound magus :P
Hope that answers some of your questions ;)
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You have to spend gold regardless of what material makes up your weapon. You don't get your weapon for "free" (only the enhancement bonus granted by the archetype is free).
Is having to pay for this particular class feature a PFS thing? Because I'm not seeing it either stated or implied in the archetype. I could very well have missed a PFS specific rider though.
The whole no light weapons thing makes no sense logically, but that appears to be the rule though.
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Is having to pay for this particular class feature a PFS thing? Because I'm not seeing it either stated or implied in the archetype. I could very well have missed a PFS specific rider though.
The whole no light weapons thing makes no sense logically, but that appears to be the rule though.
It is not a PFS thing, Walter is just wrong on that.
PFS follows all the rules as written for Baldebound in the book, the item is free.
Which also means you cannot have an item made out of sepcial material or upgrade it outside of the Archetype.
Only his last question has anything specfic to PFS.
The Weapon's "Mission" can be any flavor that he wants, but it does not come up in PFS to affect anything.
So this line "(the black blade’s mission is usually up to the GM and the needs of the campaign or the adventure, or a GM can roll randomly for the weapon’s purpose using Table 15–25 on page 534 of the Core Rulebook)." does not affect his character towards PFS, and the player can pick one if he wants for flavor reasons, but the mission does not give any bonus, or negative affect against the PC.
I brought up they same question here, since this would be a PFS question.
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I have seen a lot of rule questions that are in no way related to PFS questions and should be in the Rules Forums instead.
So I am curious so we can figure out why we are seeing this a lot recently and may be address it so they don't pop up anymore.
Why do you think there are different rules for Bladebound in PFS compared to the Regular Bladebound rules in the PF game in general?
Is it because you are not aware of the Additional Resources that go over these things? Could Additional Resources be made clearer as the resource to see if there are rule difference?
Or is it something else?
In General if it does not state in the PFS Guide, Additional Resources, or PFS FAQ that the rules for something is different for PFS then they are for the PF RPG, then the rules are exactly the same.
This is not a criticism against you, this is just me trying to see where the disconnect is.
In this case, it is something else, in someone tryiing to understand the specifics of how something interacts with the PFS rules, and where there are disconnects that need to be resolved.
Is the Bladebound weapon free, as one response says, and have to be a plain vanila masterwork weapon, or, as another response says, does the maguis need to pay for the bladebound weapon, and therefore can have it made of special material, or even have an enhancement (as wasteful as that is).
Note that a free weapon is a rarity in PFS, mainly being the Wizard's Arcane Bond item, and the Gunslinger's starting weapon.
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In this case, it is something else, in someone tryiing to understand the specifics of how something interacts with the PFS rules, and where there are disconnects that need to be resolved.
In that Case the disconnect is people not realizing if it does not state differently in the Guide, Faq or additional resources the rules are not changed from the PF RPG rule.
Maybe that should be added to the Guide.
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It is not a PFS thing, Walter is just wrong on that.
My apologies.
Which also means you cannot have an item made out of sepcial material or upgrade it outside of the Archetype.
Did you see the link I provided earlier? I don't know if you can have a silver black blade or not, but JJ replied in the above posted thread, concerning special material black blades. So it might be worth considering, even in PFS. Since there is a lack of RAW agreement.
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It doesn’t say it can be made of special materials, so that means it is a steel weapon by default.
Awesome. My magus is gonna have a steel whip! Not being facetious. I think that would genuinely be pretty cool...
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Did you see the link I provided earlier? I don't know if you can have a silver black blade or not, but JJ replied in the above posted thread, concerning special material black blades. So it might be worth considering, even in PFS. Since there is a lack of RAW agreement.JJ's post appears to be in relation to whether a shield that does slashing damage during a shield bash could be a black blade, and nothing to do with construction material.
As to the Klar, its a light shield so would be a light weapon while bashing. This would make it ineligible to be a black blade without special GM approval.
Perhaps. Except the title of the thread is: MITHRAL KLAR CAN BE A BLACK BLADE?
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And I'm sure James Jacobs response was to a Klar, not specifically the material.
And since they can be passed down from generation to generation, found, or what not.
A GM in a home game, could certainly allow it to be any material he thinks is ok.
But in PFS, you can't make it of any special material for the reasons stated above.
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Personally I'd really like to see an errata on the black blade expanding what it can be, mainly the use of light weapons.
I mean the thing can be an axe, whip or hell even a combat scarb as far as rules stand now, but it can't be a wakizashi, kukri, kama, dagger, shortsword/gladius, sickle ect, heap of cool weapons is should be able to be, but it can't. Hell just make it a light or one handed weapon from the blades light/heavy weapon group, be a pretty easy errata to do
Remove the first line of the second paragraph in the Black Blade side bar on page 48. Replace with:
"A black blade is always a light or one-handed weapon from the blades, light or blades, heavy weapon group."
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You could use a Large light weapon, which is a 1 hand weapon for a medium creature. Or, a Two handed small weapon, which is a 1 handed weapon for a medium creature.
Large dagger, large rope gauntlets, small falchion, small great sword... but it's still a D8/d6 with a -2, making a long sword look swell.
Can you make an already intelligent sword your black blade? Or an enchanted weapon you already own?
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You could use a Large light weapon, which is a 1 hand weapon for a medium creature. Or, a Two handed small weapon, which is a 1 handed weapon for a medium creature.
Large dagger, large rope gauntlets, small falchion, small great sword... but it's still a D8/d6 with a -2, making a long sword look swell.
Can you make an already intelligent sword your black blade? Or an enchanted weapon you already own?
None of those would be legal, according to either the rules for blackblades, or statements as given by previous posters.
For the large size light weapon, it is still a light weapon, it is just wielded by a medium creature as though it were a one-handed weapon with penalties.
For the small size 2-handed weapon, it is just a 2-handed weapon being wielded in one hand with a penalty.
And using a previously enchanted weapon, intelligent or not, would be a bad thing. The blackblade is setup so that, at 17th level, it can be, effectively, a +10 weapon, so there is no room for "outside" enchantments on it.
The only places where there is any question on it, as far as PFS is concerned, is whether it can be anything besides a plain vanilla weapon (mithral, darkwood, silversheen, cold iron, adamantine, etc.) and whether the Bladebound Magus PC gains a new weapon for free in PFS when he gains that class feature.
And the second question is because of the mechanics-as-written for the blackblade, given the options, is it a freebie?
And, on reflection, I would say that it has to be a freebie, just like the Wizard's Arcane Bonded item, or the Gunslinger's initial weapon. And, like an Arcane Bonded item, is either masterwork or considered masterwork. Which also would mean that it has to be a standard material weapon of that type.
On a different (?) note, the Bladebound's arcane pool should have had a separate write-up for the changes in it, instead of being included as an afterthought in the Black Blade entry.
Arcane Pool: The Bladebound Magus has an Arcane Pool equal to 1/3 his level (minimum 1) plus his Intelligence bonus instead of the normal Magus Arcane Pool.
Black Blade(Ex): At 3rd level, the bladebound magus gains a powerful sentient weapon called a black blade, whose weapon type is chosen by the magus (see sidebar). A magus with this class feature cannot take the familiar magus arcana, and cannot have a familiar of any kind, even from another class. This feature replaces the magus arcana gained at 3rd level.
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Black Blades can be Re-Forged at a cost of 200gp per Magus level if they are destroyed. This would imply you can spend the extra gold then to make it out of a different material, you just have to spend the extra gold for that special material.
I think this would call for a specific ruling within PFS on Black Blades and special materials becuase the book just doesn't get that specific.