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Your best friend as a GM is going to be the laid back rules lawyer -- the guy that will go, "Hey by the way, in this situation the rules state, blah blah blah -- but I'm willing to go with this as long as we are consistent."Generally he's not going to mention something unless things are rather off, or until after the game as long as things stay 'even' and consistent. Use the resource!
Gygax would have kicked that player out of his group! ;)
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Gygax would have kicked that player out of his group! ;)
Your best friend as a GM is going to be the laid back rules lawyer -- the guy that will go, "Hey by the way, in this situation the rules state, blah blah blah -- but I'm willing to go with this as long as we are consistent."Generally he's not going to mention something unless things are rather off, or until after the game as long as things stay 'even' and consistent. Use the resource!
And if given a chance I would have probably beaten Gygax with his own books -- from the way many of his comments come off I wouldn't have sat at his table.
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Your best friend as a GM is going to be the laid back rules lawyer -- the guy that will go, "Hey by the way, in this situation the rules state, blah blah blah -- but I'm willing to go with this as long as we are consistent."
This.
So very much this.
we are an eclectic group, aren't we
I've been told hanging around me for a long time is enough to force a will save versus confusion as well as sanity loss. My only question is if its a racial or class feature.
we are an eclectic group, aren't weI've been told hanging around me for a long time is enough to force a will save versus confusion as well as sanity loss. My only question is if its a racial or class feature.
Don't know, but I'm pretty sure I get a bonus to that save.
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Exploring these forums has taught me that the 'hide' button on the forum list is the best way to keep my blood pressure down while browsing...
I mean' 90% of posters are at least accessible to reason, and are asking reasonable questions or providing reasonable answers.
But then there's that 10%... I've taken to hiding any thread started by Shall Remain Nameless, because he just doesn't accept tons of evidence against his opinion of how it ought to be, is rude and dismissive of everyone who doesn't agree with his 'one, true, f*cking way' of playing... grrr. See, it even gripes me NOW, talking about it.
But that hide button... out of sight, no longer out of mind with irritation!
Exploring these forums has taught me that the 'hide' button on the forum list is the best way to keep my blood pressure down while browsing...
I mean' 90% of posters are at least accessible to reason, and are asking reasonable questions or providing reasonable answers.
But then there's that 10%... I've taken to hiding any thread started by Shall Remain Nameless, because he just doesn't accept tons of evidence against his opinion of how it ought to be, is rude and dismissive of everyone who doesn't agree with his 'one, true, f*cking way' of playing... grrr. See, it even gripes me NOW, talking about it.
But that hide button... out of sight, no longer out of mind with irritation!
There's a 'hide' button? I don't see it. The only thing I can do is collapse sub-forums to their names for sub-forums I don't read regularly.
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Terquem:
I'm another in the 40+ crowd (I'm still closer to 40 than 50, but won't be for long). I've been playing since 1981, red book basic D&D rules. Back when "Dwarf" and "Elf" were character classes and there were only three alignments (Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic).
I've played Basic D&D, AD&D (1st- and 2nd-ed), D&D 3E & 3.5, and PFRPG (what we're playing now). I've also played a lot of GURPS, Hero System, Call of Cthulhu, World of Darkness, and Amber Diceless Role-Playing. Honestly, when it comes to GMing, the rules set is secondary to the story and the role-playing, so that part is the same regardless of system.
Anyway, back in June, I started GMing again after a 15 year absence from that side of the GM screen. I've got a great group: a mix of my old tried-n-true gaming buddies plus a few grad student youngsters, all of us new to Pathfinder.
As for getting back in the saddle, it was like riding a bike: it felt totally natural to be on that side of the GM screen again after such a long time. I felt that my old skills never left me (aside from not knowing instantly where the rules in the PF books are, like I could with earlier systems).
As for rules? Well, if you know the basic mechanic, (roll d20 + modifiers, need to meet or exceed the DC), then you're pretty much set! The important part is the collective storytelling experience, with rules in place to resolve conflict. If you don't know the rule-- just fudge it with some semblance of the core mechanic, and look it up the real rule for the next time.
I do know what you mean, though, about being the "scary-lookin' old guy" hanging out the hobby store looking for players. I know I got the hairy eyeball from the parents of a few 11- and 12-year olds, wondering why someone their age wanted to hang out with kids. That was kind of depressing, so I gathered players by word-of-mouth. I've heard that some GMs are successful by organizing a few one-shot sessions via Craigslist, then sending personal invites to the gamers that click with their own styles.
So, from one geezer to another: don't give up, and don't let age get in the way of a good story. Your experience is valuable, and your perspective on 30+ years of gaming can be extremely enlightening to the yungins at your table.
Good luck, and have fun!
The "hide" button is that little symbol next to the "posts" tally.
Woah! Never saw that. It's like a dot. Is there a way to unhide?
Hey Wolf!
There's a 'hide' button? I don't see it. The only thing I can do is collapse sub-forums to their names for sub-forums I don't read regularly.I don't see it either, and there are portions of the forums I'd choose to completely ignore if I had that opportunity / option.
I'm also "stealth-dotting" this thread by posting in it (but that's bonus ... because I have some stuff to type to the OP, but I'm about worn out). :D
-- Andy
The triangle next to the sub-forum name. I ignored it as decoration for the longest time, but no -- it'll collapse the whole thing. Then, if you collapse all of a forum's sub-forums, you can collapse the forum too.
I think it's probably already been said (many times) in this thread, but in common with many others, I started back in about '82 and have played through all the variants of DnD. Back when I wasn't as grey as I am now, I could rules lawyer with the best of them. Now, my long standing group and I (who had a break of a good 10 years or so until 'Shackled City' came out) play for an excuse to have a evening or two a month away from the SOs, have a laugh and tell a story. Sometimes we even use the rules.
Rules can be handy, but we don't let them get in the way of a good story.
Reggie.
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I skipped over a bunch of this thread because I'm between things at the moment.
In my experience the cardinal rule of a good GM is Running Games. The more games you run, the better a GM you'll be. Every game teaches you something new and every lesson improves the next game. I forget who wrote it but there's a quote I'm going to butcher: "An expert does something for 10,000 hours."
That's how long it takes to master something. Now lets put that in perspective:
Let's assume a weekly game with an average of about 4 hours (208 hours a year of gaming. Well done!) It would take approximately 48.07 years of weekly games to become a true expert GM (give or take).
So don't back off running games. Just run as many and as often as you can.
CEO
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Terquem:
You are not the only person going through the issue of trying to absorb the new rules. I have been playing since 1981 and have been involved with making games since 1987. I was an expert playing 1st edition AD&D. I could pretty much open up the book to the exact page by feel. I knew where everything was and those books had horrible organization. But that didn't matter, because I KNEW them.
Flash forward 30 years and I am as befuddled as you are looking through the various rules forums. It IS like a foreign language. There are so many feats and archetypes and such that it is many times a bunch of blah, blah, blah, blah to me. And I OWN the company and the game! :)
But I don't let that stop me. I run a weekly game where one of my players was heavily involved with creating the 3rd edition rules at WotC. He knows them backwards and forwards. He calls me out on my mistakes from time to time. I just roll with it. Sometimes it is great because I can just ask him what a rule says and he can tell me without me having to look it up. Sometimes it stinks, because I disagree with a rule. But the good news is that my players go along with whatever my ruling is and we move onward. Sometimes I use the old trick where I say something like, "You are right, usually you can't do that, but this guy can for some reason" or "This version of that magic item works slightly differently than the ones you find commonly in the streets of Absalom."
Basically, I am willing to wing it and not be an expert on the rules. I've decided long ago to put more ranks into roleplaying and knowing how to run a campaign that is fun and has people coming back for years and years than into things like Know Rules. I just don't care about the rules enough to warrant that kind of expertise. Also, that is why I have folks like Jason Bulmahn on staff.
In closing, I can understand feeling that the game is moving away from you at a fast pace. Us older folks (and I AM older than you by a little bit) don't adapt as well as we used to when we were young. But we can still have a heck of a lot of fun roleplaying by just not taking the rules too seriously and enjoying roleplaying with our friends. That is what it is all about afterall.
Glad to see that you aren't giving up! There are a lot of kindred spirits here on the boards. Hopefully you can find a new group of friends here and will eventually jump back in the GM seat.
-Lisa
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Terquem:
You are not the only person going through the issue of trying to absorb the new rules. I have been playing since 1981 and have been involved with making games since 1987. I was an expert playing 1st edition AD&D. I could pretty much open up the book to the exact page by feel. I knew where everything was and those books had horrible organization. But that didn't matter, because I KNEW them.
Flash forward 30 years and I am as befuddled as you are looking through the various rules forums. It IS like a foreign language. There are so many feats and archetypes and such that it is many times a bunch of blah, blah, blah, blah to me. And I OWN the company and the game! :)
But I don't let that stop me. I run a weekly game where one of my players was heavily involved with creating the 3rd edition rules at WotC. He knows them backwards and forwards. He calls me out on my mistakes from time to time. I just roll with it. Sometimes it is great because I can just ask him what a rule says and he can tell me without me having to look it up. Sometimes it stinks, because I disagree with a rule. But the good news is that my players go along with whatever my ruling is and we move onward. Sometimes I use the old trick where I say something like, "You are right, usually you can't do that, but this guy can for some reason" or "This version of that magic item works slightly differently than the ones you find commonly in the streets of Absalom."
Basically, I am willing to wing it and not be an expert on the rules. I've decided long ago to put more ranks into roleplaying and knowing how to run a campaign that is fun and has people coming back for years and years than into things like Know Rules. I just don't care about the rules enough to warrant that kind of expertise. Also, that is why I have folks like Jason Bulmahn on staff.
In closing, I can understand feeling that the game is moving away from you at a fast pace. Us older folks (and I AM older than you by a little bit) don't adapt as...
This post is a spectacular example of why I have taken a liking to Paizo and have switched to Pathfinder.
No, the mechanics and the product are not perfect, but this is a hobby whose participants are above all else passionate, and the fact that the CEO (and from what I have read, pretty much all of the employees) shares this passion for the game is what sets Paizo apart. The shared enthusiasm really shines through in the end product.
Terquem, if the modern game is unintelligible to you, just run an older edition that you are familiar with.
Terquem,
I just checked out your game and it looks like dynamite!
I like when DMs give plenty of description and you're doing it in spades. I should write more myself, but time's been short this year and I compose so slowly.
Anyway, here's hoping the troubles that brought you back here are short-lived and ultimately unimportant.
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and those books had horrible organization.
@ Lisa Stevens: As CEO i'd just love to mention that I love spells being listed by level and hate them being all jumbled together and listed alphabetically. As a huge fan of books over pdfs I can say it was way faster and easier for me to find a spell by flipping to the 'chapter of the level of the spells and then finding it alphabetically among the 20 or so spells of its level' than it is to find it alphabetically in a list of every spell in the book. When your database gets big enough sometimes 'grouping elements' (in this case by level) becomes a valid way to speed up a process and it worked great for me back in the day. Just sayin. First time I've seen a post by the ceo so I thought i'd mention it.
@ Terquem: Dont let the age difference at your local tables hold you back. our youngest is in his late 20s and our oldest is in his late fifties. Gygax played with his own children and you wouldnt catch Ed Greenwood being chided for joining any table of any age. Its true the fact the game has been around this long creates a 'veterans of yesteryear' and a 'young whippersnapper' spectrum that wasnt there when you first started playing, but the game hasn't evolved as far as it seems.
In 1996 "Etienne Bacrot vs Vasily Smyslov" was a championship chess match between a 13 year old and a 75 year old. Sure the 13 year old might have won but if Vasily still had a good time then its not so important. Even less important since pathfinder is a collaborative instead of competitive game. A 62 year difference in players doesn't stop a good time from being had by all even if the game is competitive. Pathfinder doesn't even suffer from that.
At least from a character standpoint in fact it even occasionally gets critiqued as being a 'safer' environment than the one you were in. No beholders! The important thing to remember is those whippersnappers at the table are the same kind of gamer you were when you were that age. If you can sit down and have a good time then the age difference is insubstantial. I saw your post about having to roll to strike on magic missile, which is hillarious as that was even before my time.
As a fellow member of the old guard I can tell you 'the biggest hurdle' is to avoid setting up that dichotomy of 'i'm the veteran here, my way was better' since the young dudes don't want [your years of experience to be damning of their lack of it] and more [your years of experience can bring unique insight and flavor that they may lack]. Put your worries and pretenses in the trunk. Let the years roll off your shoulders and let that sense of adventure take a front seat. Nobody's gonna worry about the fact that you're getting a pension instead of a paycheck.
Be the Ed Greenwood in your area. You've earned your stripes. Pull up a chair and 'let the good times role'.
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It has been almost a year since I last played a table top session of my favorite game, and kind of feels like there just isn’t going to be anyone I can play with ever again. I visited the local B&M store on a game night and watched a Pathfinder game being played, and they were all twenty-something’s who looked at me like I should be in a rest home (haha, I’m exaggerating, maybe, but still).I bought a couple of Pathfinder products and some Game Mastery flip maps just a few weeks ago telling myself that, “I have a great I dead for an adventure, now if I can only find some players…” and it sort of made me sad a few days after when I saw the things I bought in a pile in the bedroom.
But mostly it has been a very good experience meeting and playing with some of the people here on these forums. Thank you Paizo.
I'm 41 years old and I routinely play and run games for people 10 to 20 years younger and older than me, I find it's no big deal.
I also don't know the rules for squat and have colossaly screwed up an end boss from time to time (Ummm.....it looks like he is immune to fire...OOPS!).
If you want to get back to the table top then I'd suggest you get a PFS Scenario or two and learn them cover to cover, then offer to run them on a PFS night at your local store. Sure you'll get players with characters you've never seen before and maybe some weird new class or ability but guess what: They know how their characters run and will be extremely excited to explain it to you.
"I'm not familiar with that rule/class/ability can you explain it to me?" That's all you need to do.
I GUARANTEE no one will be angry, belittling or mean spirited to you. They will be extremely grateful, they will love talking about their character (i.e. themselves) and if all else fails, pop over and bug the more knowledgable DM to get a quick ruling if needed.
The more experience you have the better you will be, for example I always triple check the BBEG's immunities and defensive stats now!
Just jump in already!
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Well, I'm only catching this now instead of around half a year ago when it was posted, but I'd like to point out that there ARE people who play more 'classic' versions of D&D.
The owner of my FLGS will not touch anything D&D related above 1st edition. He runs a 1st edition game that has high attendance.
Last year, I went to my very first convention. (Had a blast, too.) In the gaming room, I couldn't find anything 3rd edition or pathfinder related. But there was this one guy running a 1st edition module...
Best one-shot ever.
Not comfortable playing something newer? Then why stress yourself? Classic D&D beckons.
Side note: Seeing the CEO of pathfinder saying that she has rules disagreements with one of her game designer players was one of the greatest moments I've ever witnessed on these forums. Imagining the head of the company looking at some splat book over a game table and going "...the hell is this?!?" makes me feel a great deal better about my own confusion regarding the rules.
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Well, I'm only catching this now instead of around half a year ago when it was posted, but I'd like to point out that there ARE people who play more 'classic' versions of D&D.
The owner of my FLGS will not touch anything D&D related above 1st edition. He runs a 1st edition game that has high attendance.
Last year, I went to my very first convention. (Had a blast, too.) In the gaming room, I couldn't find anything 3rd edition or pathfinder related. But there was this one guy running a 1st edition module...
Best one-shot ever.
Not comfortable playing something newer? Then why stress yourself? Classic D&D beckons.
Pretty much where I'm at now. My group all switched to Pathfinder, but I'm not comfortable with the rules. When the DM spot is open and the current game winds down, I'm throwing my hat in the ring to run a 3.5e game. We'll bring in aspects of PF they like, but other than that, I'm running a game in the rule set I am most comfortable in.
Realistically, however, this isn't going to fly. I'm going to give it a shot, but I know my group, and I'm going to get passed over so they can play a game with the new rules they prefer. I won't blame them if they do, it's essentially the same thing I'm trying to do.
*spoilered buzzkill snark*
Side note: Seeing the CEO of pathfinder saying that she has rules disagreements with one of her game designer players was one of the greatest moments I've ever witnessed on these forums. Imagining the head of the company looking at some splat book over a game table and going "...the hell is this?!?" makes me feel a great deal better about my own confusion regarding the rules.
Honestly, this does not make me feel better. I know you're simply paraphrasing, but when a CEO has a reaction like(again, paraphrased and not actual quote) "...the hell is this?" of their own product, that does very little to reassure me of it.
Yes I realize that's not what Lisa actually said, but still, expressing an opinion here.
It has taught me that I am no longer viable as a Dungeon Master. Oh, well perhaps I might still manage to play the game, if the others are willing to be patient with me. But let’s face it. I’ll probably never be able to run a game again.
I ran my first game when I was thirteen. I loved this game and put so much of myself into enjoying it as a hobby. Everyone I ever played with has moved on. I guess they grew up, and I didn’t it. But now it makes me sad to realize that I cannot keep up with all that has changed.
There are so many detailed examinations of character classes that I don’t even recognize and so many discussions of optimization and rules lawyer-ing, and don’t get me wrong, I am in no way saying that this evolution of the game I love is wrong, or bad, or not really playing the game I know and love. It is so much what the game should be. It is what I had a feeling all along that I knew the game would evolve to be. We played it back then because we wanted to expand our minds, and have fun. These discussions and in depth examinations are really just a natural expression of those desires, and it is, in a way, beautiful that so many young people can think about these things with so much clarity and depth.
But I am not young.
I love this game. I want to play it so badly, and I just haven’t been able to for over a year now. And even though I really get excited to read these forums, learn new things, and I try to participate in the discussions, when I think I might have something relevant to say, it is very clear to me that most of you are talking in a language I don’t understand, and most of you are in touch with a game that isn’t as familiar to me as it once was.
I bought the Pathfinder Core Rule Book, Game Mastery Guide and the first Bestiary Book. I am reading them. I love the level of detail you all can get to when discussing how to make your characters and how the game should be played (in your brilliant and imaginative minds) and I will miss the feeling of sitting around a table and...
Yeah, the crunch of pf is just too much for some people. Pf started as a variant to 3.5 and before it was cocky, it was just some suggestions. If you have 3.5 under your belt, you can do what I do and just take a bit from pf, but leave it to others. I think there is great worth in simpler systems, complexity and a thousand new special abilities isn't required for good games.
I've got tired of the optimisation and the difficulty in tracking what some classes can now do. I prefer the simpler 3.5 base, with the possibility of specialisation via feats and prestige classes. It is good that pf offered more feats per level and skill streamlining, that is a real plus worthy of being copied.
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Well, I'm only catching this now instead of around half a year ago when it was posted, but I'd like to point out that there ARE people who play more 'classic' versions of D&D.
The owner of my FLGS will not touch anything D&D related above 1st edition. He runs a 1st edition game that has high attendance.
Last year, I went to my very first convention. (Had a blast, too.) In the gaming room, I couldn't find anything 3rd edition or pathfinder related. But there was this one guy running a 1st edition module...
Best one-shot ever.
Not comfortable playing something newer? Then why stress yourself? Classic D&D beckons.
Pretty much where I'm at now. My group all switched to Pathfinder, but I'm not comfortable with the rules. When the DM spot is open and the current game winds down, I'm throwing my hat in the ring to run a 3.5e game. We'll bring in aspects of PF they like, but other than that, I'm running a game in the rule set I am most comfortable in.
Realistically, however, this isn't going to fly. I'm going to give it a shot, but I know my group, and I'm going to get passed over so they can play a game with the new rules they prefer. I won't blame them if they do, it's essentially the same thing I'm trying to do.
*spoilered buzzkill snark*
** spoiler omitted **...
Raise the 3.5 banner, raise it high!
Yeah I've seen the great conversion to pf, there is a lot wrong with this edition that really puts me, personally, off. Making manoeuvres harder to pull off successfully, since they are easier to defend against, and require more feats to get what once was (trip), that annoys. I think people got bribed quite effectively, but more is not always better.
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** spoiler omitted **
I agree. I've been playing (mostly running) RPG's since 82.
I think that to expect ANYONE to know any complex ruleset backwards an forwards is unrealistic. I dont memorize everything. I dont have to. The rules are are a reference.
Part of prepping a game is knowing that what I'm going to needing to reference or use during a game and making it so that I can get to it quickly or having it on hand ahead of time.
The fact that the CEO or Paizo has trouble remembering all of the rules isnt a slight against the company unless you feel that a CEO should be intimately familiar with all of it's products. I dont think the designers have all of the rules memorized and I'm pretty sure that they have to consult references from time to time.
and that's the way I feel it should to be.
The amount of weight that's put toward rules mastery in this particular game isnt due to the rules themselves but due to the obsessive compulsive nature of some of the people who play said game.
I've been running Pathfinder since it came out and 3.5 before that. I've been running a Curse of the Crimson Throne game for the past 3 years with mostly the same players and it's very rare that we have to completely stop a game to look up something rules related. Either myself or one of the players either knows the rule off the top of our heads or we know where to find it in the book or on through an app like PFR or PFRPGrd.
** spoiler omitted **I agree. I've been playing (mostly running) RPG's since 82.
I think that to expect ANYONE to know any complex ruleset backwards an forwards is unrealistic. I dont memorize everything. I dont have to. The rules are are a reference.
Part of prepping a game is knowing that what I'm going to needing to reference or use during a game and making it so that I can get to it quickly or having it on hand ahead of time.The fact that the CEO or Paizo has trouble remembering all of the rules isnt a slight against the company unless you feel that a CEO should be intimately familiar with all of it's products. I dont think the designers have all of the rules memorized and I'm pretty sure that they have to consult references from time to time.
and that's the way I feel it should to be.
The amount of weight that's put toward rules mastery in this particular game isnt due to the rules themselves but due to the obsessive compulsive nature of some of the people who play said game.
I've been running Pathfinder since it came out and 3.5 before that. I've been running a Curse of the Crimson Throne game for the past 3 years with mostly the same players and it's very rare that we have to completely stop a game to look up something rules related. Either myself or one of the players either knows the rule off the top of our heads or we know where to find it in the book or on through an app like PFR or PFRPGrd.
Hi, I'm one of those people who memorized a ruleset frontwards and backwards. I still needed Monster Manuals and such for individual encounters, but I could cite most rules in 3.0-3.5 almost word for word, and in many cases I could tell you the page number for reference. I could whip up fully statted out NPC's in moments, usually as the players were rolling for initiative. 3 years of attempted Pathfinder conversion has muddied that all up pretty bad, however. I tried at least.
I don't feel a CEO should have every rule memorized, especially when the game has various errata from time to time. I think I was commenting more on the kind of reaction to something being different, not just that she didn't remember the exact ruling.
** spoiler omitted **
I understand and respect that. I'm not trying to shoot you down, just offering a differing opinion. When a company is touting their revision of a pretty hefty set of rules as being "new and improved, fixed, etc," and even the CEO second guesses some of the changes, that makes me very uneasy.
That, or I'm completely reading into this wrong. It happens.
With the exception of a few games I have tried to play in where it seemed that the DM was trying to defeat the players (not the characters, but actually out smart the players) it has been a blast
And recently I started running a new "old school 5e heavily housed rull laden to give a 1e feel" game on these boards, and it is as much fun as some of the others.
I really like the dichotomy of those two statements, as I know we're in a similar age range as gamers and have experienced similar setbacks... I tend to lean towards 2e as a gamer and have always felt like 'book rules light and houserules/fiat heavy was a much better way to go. I was mostly a gm back then so I liked the flexibility of fiat and my players enjoyed it because I wasn't 'out to get them' or 'gm'ing to win'...
It was quite a culture shock to get back into gaming with folks who cut their teeth on rules heavy systems like 3.0-pathfinder and the instant returns of moving their ideas back and forth with a much larger player base on the internet. I still run into folks from time to time who are so adamant about their opinions on how things should be that they exclude my ideas from being possible or enjoyable... and it's pretty discouraging to have to slay those kinda dragons, but I'm a dragonslayer from wayback so it's just more tying on the armor and shouldering into the breach for me. Sometimes the instinct to slay on is stronger than the wiser decision to step away. But it's never been so bad that I want to step away from gaming itself.
It wasnt until I ran into other games with other gm's that I suddenly realized that maybe gm fiat wasn't always a good thing, so I understand where some players are coming from wanting rules heavy systems like 3.0 and pathfinder to take the power out of the gm chair, as a result of having spent their days in 2e or before with gms that were maybe interested in their particular brand of fun as I was back in the day....
My posts are often polarizing, with feedback vaccilating from 'I find your idea wonderful!' to 'I find your idea horrifying!'... Quite often I find myself surrounded by folks who think an idea I might think is great is an amazingly horrible thing, but if the years have taught me nothing else, my experience can often lend me more insight than a bevvy of dissenting folks if only because they 'play the game in a different way' which they totally should. Might sting in the moment but I'm heartened to know that the hobby has regrown to the extent that my old feeling that 'it takes all kinds' is proving true... Even if all kinds sometimes means the 'strident and ardent opposite kind as myself'. There's just as many of my kind out there and the hobby is mostly better for the fact that it has a broader (if occasionally nearly polar opposite) kinds.
And the hobby is better for having you in it. I'm super glad you're still with us and even moreso superglad that you're finding your kind of fun in this hobby that's now big enough for lots and lots of other kinds. As the elves say, sweet water and light laughter my friend!
Hmm...
I like a rules-lite version of the game. IF AND ONLY IF, it has a really great GM that rules consistently and great group of really engaged and imaginative players. It ends up as something pretty wonderful.
I have to admit, I am not that good of GM. Also at this stage of my life I have to work fairly hard to be that engaged and imaginative. I'm just not a teenager anymore.
But with a more average group of players and GM's or with a group whose 'vision' of the way the game should be doesn't quite match my own, I prefer the rules heavy PF approach. If there is a rule for grappling, it helps to make the player think of that as an option that might be a good idea and it is fairly easy to resolve the outcome if you decide to try.
If there is no rule for it, it might never occur to many players. Even if it does, an inconsistent GM will sometimes make it easy and sometimes make it difficult and you will have know way to know whether it is a good idea or a lousy one.
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Toward some of the ideas expressed on the first page. I will just say, the way many people behave on an internet forum and how they behave in real life is often widely divergent.
A while back, I met a guy at a PFS event. He wasn't my favorite type of gamer and seemed a little to obsessed with his immediate combat numbers. But not too bad. He wasn't trying to hog the spotlight, outshine the other players, get others killed, win at others expense or anything like that. A reasonably polite, fairly normal gamer.
Later I found out his forum name. I was completely shocked. He is one of the most obnoxious, insulting, and argumentative posters here. He's one of the people that had me begging for an ignore button so I wasn't exposed to the bile he throws out. He has gotten several threads locked, where I was trying to have a civilized discussion. I would never have imagined meeting him in person for a f2f game could be anything other than a painful experience.
So don't get too worked up about what you read here and don't let it push you away from a quite enjoyable hobby.