I'm making a sorcerer who's purpose is to be a sort of diplomat to our mercenary group and in battle's he will be a battlemage. (I am the boomstick)
I've read Minstrel's guide to sorcerers and it has helped a lot but with UM,UC and all the other new books the spell list has become massive along with all the feats and I feel quite lost trying to figure what to take.
So might someone help me pick out spells and feats through all this knowledge we have, I am allowed to use all Paizo Pathfinder books and campaigns the ''official stuff''
Here's the idea on paper:
Level: 4
Race: Human
Sex: Male
Bloodline: Infernal
25 point buy
Stats:
Str:8
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:12
Cha:16+2+1 (from race)
Skills:
Diplomacy:4
Bluff:3
Intimidate:3
Spellcraft:4
Use Magic Device:3
Knowledge(arcana):1
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Toughness
Spell penetration
Spells:
Lvl0:Read magic,resistance,ray of frost,light,ghost sound,read magic.
Lvl1:mage armor,sleep,grease.
Lvl2:Invisibility
Now sadly there are no real ''boomstick spells' there, those are useful overall to the party but not real dmg output yet, any ideas what to switch and so on forth.
All help is appreciated :) thank you
well firstly it depends on the amount of boomstick that you would like to bring :)
One thing you could do is to throw out the infernal bloodline, go tatooed crossblooded sorc with orc and draconic bloodline specializing in fire (evocation) spells. If you at later levels select the metamagic feat to turn element to fire you dont really have a problem. Then use the human levels to get bonus spells, and feats for spell focus and penetration.
If you want to go even further then you can take harrower prestige class (honestly sorc really doesnt do much in terms of bonusses later), and then you can start doing serious hurt.
Orc and draconic each adds +1 dam per dice, and with strenght cards as a harrower you gain +1 per card of them you draw (can also increase save dc and vs spell resist, all in all pretty solid).
This can really make you boomstick jump, just imagine level 8 sorc (3 harrower) throwing fireball, base dam is 8d6 + 16 = 44 but with harrower it can add up to another + 24 to that. Pretty solid aoe damage.
Spells to concider with this build, burning hands, scorching ray (must have) and fireball (also must). Also you dont really need toughness feat when you have 14 con, so go with spell focus instead.
Ofcourse any of these things can be added to increase the boomstick a little, so if you dont like orc for example, then dont go crossblooded and jsut stick with draconic (still tatooed imo).
with 25 pt buy i would also start with 18 char, possible lowering wis or int to get it.
Anyway thats my 2c
well firstly it depends on the amount of boomstick that you would like to bring :)
One thing you could do is to throw out the infernal bloodline, go tatooed crossblooded sorc with orc and draconic bloodline specializing in fire (evocation) spells. If you at later levels select the metamagic feat to turn element to fire you dont really have a problem. Then use the human levels to get bonus spells, and feats for spell focus and penetration.
If you want to go even further then you can take harrower prestige class (honestly sorc really doesnt do much in terms of bonusses later), and then you can start doing serious hurt.
Orc and draconic each adds +1 dam per dice, and with strenght cards as a harrower you gain +1 per card of them you draw (can also increase save dc and vs spell resist, all in all pretty solid).
This can really make you boomstick jump, just imagine level 8 sorc (3 harrower) throwing fireball, base dam is 8d6 + 16 = 44 but with harrower it can add up to another + 24 to that. Pretty solid aoe damage.
Spells to concider with this build, burning hands, scorching ray (must have) and fireball (also must). Also you dont really need toughness feat when you have 14 con, so go with spell focus instead.
Ofcourse any of these things can be added to increase the boomstick a little, so if you dont like orc for example, then dont go crossblooded and jsut stick with draconic (still tatooed imo).
with 25 pt buy i would also start with 18 char, possible lowering wis or int to get it.
Anyway thats my 2c
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions but I will keep to Infernal for RP and character reasons :) I am trying to optimise what I got but not make it to absolute minmaxing.
Why won't you pick lightning bolt instead of fireball? Larger aoe or?
Thanks for the ideas and suggestions but I will keep to Infernal for RP and character reasons :) I am trying to optimise what I got but not make it to absolute minmaxing.
Why won't you pick lightning bolt instead of fireball? Larger aoe or?
I think it would be because lightning bolt only affects in a straight line, while fireball is a 20 foot radius. You could easily hit more targets with fireball than you could with lightning bolt, unless they line up just perfectly.
It's generally much easier to aim fireball effectively than lightning bolt. The former doesn't care about your location, while the latter does. Between that and the shapes themselves, it's much easier to hit enemies and not hit allies with fireball than with lightning bolt.
you can also use the primal elemental (fire) bloodline for the same +1 dam/dice bonus, if you like that fluff idea better than dragon or orc.
Actually my main reason for doing fireball is that all the elemental bonusses goes to fire damage (orc, draconic or elemental), and as such it is much better.
Ok if you want to work with what you have, then i would definately drop toughness feat and get spellfocus instead. Then get burning hands and scorching ray at next level for damage spells.
I still think the harrower prestige class gives a lot of oomph for the levels, starting from when you can draw strenght cards at level 3, so maybe that is something you can work with.
You could also consider getting the tatooed sorc archtype (awsome bonusses), instead of the pretty horrible corrupting touch from infernal type. I personally think that the fluff of a tatooed infernal sorc could still be pretty cool, but depends on what you are willing to do ofc.
anyway you need the following feats
Varision Tatoo (get that free with archtype, choose evocation)
spell focus
greater spell focus (never underestimate +1(+2) to save DC)
Spell penetration (you have that)
greater spell penetration (pretty meh, but if you have the extra feat)
metamagic feats (stuff like highten and enlarge are always good)
cant really think of anything else right now.
PS would really change cha to 18 with a 25 point buy.
i might also be mistaking, but should u have 2 level 2 spells? 1 from base and 1 from high cha? (make that spell schorching ray)
If your DM allows wordcasting consider taking the feat get Experimental Caster and choose 'Fire Blast' as your word (or Lightning Blast, same thing but different element damage).
Basically as a sorcerer this gives a choice of 10' or 20' burst (20' is same as fireball), or a 20' to 120' line (120 is the same as lightning bolt), or a 10' or 20' cone (typically weak but the option is there), or even a ray (single target with high reflex save but low touch AC? no problem).
Yes it costs a feat, but you get and you get a nice versatile spell that is 'lighting bolt' or 'fireball' (with even more options to boot) and it's not likely to hit one of your friends accidently.
i might also be mistaking, but should u have 2 level 2 spells? 1 from bloodline and 1 from high cha?
You get the 2nd lv bloodline spell at lv 5, and you don't get an extra spell known for high charisma, only an extra spell per day.
True but you could put all the elemental bonuses towards lightning element attacks if the person wanted too. But fire would probably be the best general choice, though you would want something to do against those that are immune to fire.
i might also be mistaking, but should u have 2 level 2 spells? 1 from bloodline and 1 from high cha?You get the 2nd lv bloodline spell at lv 5, and you don't get an extra spell known for high charisma, only an extra spell per day.
True but you could put all the elemental bonuses towards lightning element attacks if the person wanted too. But fire would probably be the best general choice, though you would want something to do against those that are immune to fire.
DOH. Yah i missed that one.
Yes you could put them towards lightning, but in general there is a lot more fire spells, and scorching ray rocks with all those bonusses. The reason i suggest the metamagic feat that changes element to fire (or select fire element bloodline), is that you can then take a cold damage spell and convert it to fire most of the time, if you run into fire resistance simply dont change it.
Actually my main reason for doing fireball is that all the elemental bonusses goes to fire damage (orc, draconic or elemental), and as such it is much better.
Ok if you want to work with what you have, then i would definately drop toughness feat and get spellfocus instead. Then get burning hands and scorching ray at next level for damage spells.
I still think the harrower prestige class gives a lot of oomph for the levels, starting from when you can draw strenght cards at level 3, so maybe that is something you can work with.
You could also consider getting the tatooed sorc archtype (awsome bonusses), instead of the pretty horrible corrupting touch from infernal type. I personally think that the fluff of a tatooed infernal sorc could still be pretty cool, but depends on what you are willing to do ofc.
anyway you need the following feats
Varision Tatoo (get that free with archtype, choose evocation)
spell focus
greater spell focus (never underestimate +1(+2) to save DC)
Spell penetration (you have that)
greater spell penetration (pretty meh, but if you have the extra feat)
metamagic feats (stuff like highten and enlarge are always good)cant really think of anything else right now.
PS would really change cha to 18 with a 25 point buy.
The Tattooed sorc seems a great choice since corrupt touch aint much and neither is hellfire besides being cool.
I'm rooted for pure sorc and not varisian most likely but will think upon it because its quite nasty.
Are you sure you're married to the infernal sorcerer? If you had traits, you could take the human trait "world traveler" and get diplomacy as a class skill from there. That makes you a diplomat.
For blasting: Arcane, draconic, and primal are all much better. For feats, spell specialization gives you +2CL to one spell, but you can pick different spells every time you get a level, so for most spells that is a +7 to damage on average with your favorite spell. I'd go with fire evocation and get a wand of element to ice metamagic to circumvent fire immune critters. Magical lineage (favorite spell) is a good trait because it lowers the cost of metamagic. Dazing spell metamagic turns your blasts into controlling spells too. You don't need spell penetration at level 4.
Here's how I'd do it:
Here's the idea on paper:
Level: 4
Race: Human
Sex: Male
Bloodline: Primal25 point buy
Stats:
Str:8
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:12
Cha:16+2+1 (from race)Skills:
Diplomacy:4
Bluff:0
Intimidate:0
Spellcraft:4
Use Magic Device:4
Knowledge(arcana):1
Perception:4
Sense Motive:3Traits:
Magical Lineage (Fireball)
ReactionaryFeats:
1: Spell Focus: Evocation
1: Spell Specialization: Burning Hands (change to fireball at level 6)
3: Improved Initiative
5: [something]
7: Empower SpellSpells:
Lvl0:Read magic,daze,acid splash,light,ghost sound,detect magic.Lvl1:mage armor,sleep,grease, burning hands(human alternate to favored class for sorcerers is +1 spell).
Lvl2:scorching ray
at level 1, this character can burning hands for 3d4+3 (average 10.5)
at level 4 this character can scorching ray for 4d6+4 damage. (average 18)
at level 8 this character could toss out an empowered fireball for 15d6+15 damage. (67.5)
Well it's not married to inferna but is a large idea as my character, of course what I see as a battlemage/boomstick is just optimising what I got and not making it minmax optimal with the bloodlines but they are viable and btw what is primal bloodline, cant find it :S
Well it's not married to inferna but is a large idea as my character, of course what I see as a battlemage/boomstick is just optimising what I got and not making it minmax optimal with the bloodlines but they are viable and btw what is primal bloodline, cant find it :S
Primal is an alternate bloodline for elemental, it's a type of archetype that modifies the bloodline arcane along with a bloodline power.
It's in Ultimate Magic under Wildblooded.
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25 point buy
Stats:
Str:8
Dex:14
Con:14
Int:14
Wis:12
Cha:16+2+1 (from race)
...
Feats:
Improved Initiative
Toughness
Spell penetrationSpells:
Lvl0:Read magic,resistance,ray of frost,light,ghost sound,read magic.Lvl1:mage armor,sleep,grease.
Lvl2:Invisibility
...
Nothing horrible, but if it was me, I'd suggest considering the following changes.
Increase base charisma to 17 (18 doesn't seem worth the cost to me).
Switch: light to dancing lights, read magic to mending, sleep to something with damage, and invisibility to something with damage. If you want to be a boomstick, be a boom stick.
I probably wouldn't take toughness since starting at level 4 and you have 14 con. Maybe spell focus evocation if that is where your favorite boom spells are. There are some good damage ones in several schools.
I like spell penetration but I rarely need it at this low of level, consider taking later.
If your first level damage spell has a save, seriously consider bouncing spell.
Toppling spell is also nice to give your booms some controlling effects.
Nothing wrong with what you have, just doesn't say boom stick to me.
You're right, not a boomstick but wants to be ;) but still need utility spells :S at lvl 5 I get scorching ray which is awesome.
Sleep I see as a very useful spell since most of our enemies are humans or humanoid.
actually you should completely remove sleep and then take color spray instead. That spell is really one of the absolute best spells you can ever have, is has so much more cc capabilities than sleep.
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As to the fireball vs. lightning bolt question, I think the range of a fireball is another real advantage. Bring on the Boom, but there's no need to get too close to do it.
If you use traits, I really like Magical Lineage (Fireball) to enable cheaper metamagic.
Eventually, you're going to want Intensify, Empower, and Quicken Spell if you really want to pour on the damage, but don't underestimate Dazing Spell (it'll make your blasts into Save or Suck spells...very nice).
Your decision not to go with a bloodline that increases damage per die is going to drop your damage curve quite a bit, but I think Dazing helps to make up for that...it won't kill them as quickly, but the dual threat you get with it is awesome. Take everything you can to up your save DCs.
One more vote for Tattooed Sorcerer. It gets you Varisian Tattoo, which will give you an extra +1 caster level with all of your evocation spells, and a Familiar Tattoo in place of your 1st level bloodline power, which is a bargain.
Take Spell Specialization for +2 caster levels (you can change out the spell as you level up, but you'll eventually want to settle on fireball unless you're playing to very high levels).
You probably want something to get around resistances, as there are a lot of fire resistant or fire immune creatures. You're going to be feat-starved, so you may have a hard time being able to afford Elemental Spell. You could also take a level of Wizard specializing in the Admixture subschool, but that costs you a caster level.
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Toppling spell is also nice to give your booms some controlling effects.
I'm not a big fan of Toppling Spell.
For one thing, it can only be applied to spells that have the [force] descriptor. It seems like a waste for a Sorcerer to pick up a Metamagic Feat that he'll only be able to apply to a couple of spells.
Plus, there are a lot of opponents that can't be tripped (including every flying creature, and anything more than one size category larger than you), and there are lots of others that are very hard to trip due to their CMD.
I can't really recommend Toppling Spell.
I agree that sleep is great at low levels (you will eventually want to switch it out later). I like it even better than color spray because of the range.
It's just when I go for a theme, I GO FOR A THEME!!!
If I were makeing a boom stick, probably all my attack spells would cause damage in some way.
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I'm not a big fan of Toppling Spell.For one thing, it can only be applied to spells that have the [force] descriptor. It seems like a waste for a Sorcerer to pick up a Metamagic Feat that he'll only be able to apply to a couple of spells...
Actually, I had forgot about that. The builds I've seen with toppling were definitely heavy on using force spells. But then, I like force spells. So I kinda assume that a boomstick type build would probably have all of them. But if your not going to concentrate on them, it may not be worth a feat.
If your DM allows wordcasting consider taking the feat get Experimental Caster and choose 'Fire Blast' as your word (or Lightning Blast, same thing but different element damage).
I'd also suggest Words of Power (either the Experimental Caster feat or a full-out wordcaster) for someone who wants to be a blaster. You get quite a bit of choice in terms of blast shapes, etc.
Toppling spell is also nice to give your booms some controlling effects.I'm not a big fan of Toppling Spell.
For one thing, it can only be applied to spells that have the [force] descriptor. It seems like a waste for a Sorcerer to pick up a Metamagic Feat that he'll only be able to apply to a couple of spells.
Plus, there are a lot of opponents that can't be tripped (including every flying creature, and anything more than one size category larger than you), and there are lots of others that are very hard to trip due to their CMD.
I can't really recommend Toppling Spell.
Alright, maybe boomstick is the wrong word since our campaign isn't that much encounter fights with golems but of a grand scale where we lead mercenaries to war and so on and roleplaying so I thought the devilish diplomat with fire up his sleeve is a good idea :)
So maybe it's a diplomatic sorcerer and half a boomstick
Just make sure to take blast spells of different energy types (or grab the Elemental Spell metamagic feat to change the type on-the-fly), as immunities are rather common in higher levels.
For large-scale battles, low-level spells with a larger are of effect can be better than single-target high-level spells (for example, a little obscuring mist ruins the enemy forces' ranged combatants, allows your forces to maneuver in position unseen etc).
Also, you might consider taking the eldritch heritage feat to grab some other bloodlines' abilities without the crossblooded archetype's drawbacks.
Just make sure to take blast spells of different energy types (or grab the Elemental Spell metamagic feat to change the type on-the-fly), as immunities are rather common in higher levels.
For large-scale battles, low-level spells with a larger are of effect can be better than single-target high-level spells (for example, a little obscuring mist ruins the enemy forces' ranged combatants, allows your forces to maneuver in position unseen etc).Also, you might consider taking the eldritch heritage feat to grab some other bloodlines' abilities without the crossblooded archetype's drawbacks.
To gain eldricht heritage one needs skill focus in the bloodline skill, the one feat cost to get it might be too expensive.
The elemental spell metamagic might be a great choice depending on the enemies. Or different element spells overall.
I have a level 4 blaster sorcerer for Serpent's Skull, and here's his build:
Level: 4
Race: Human (Varisian)
Sex: Male
Bloodline: Draconic
Archetype: Tattooed Sorcerer
Traits: Magic Lineage (fireball), Reactionary
Feats:
Varisian Tattoo (evocation)*
Spell Focus (evocation)
Spell Specialization (burning arc)
Craft Wondrous Item
*From Tattooed Sorcerer
Spells:
0-breeze, detect magic, ghost sound, light, read magic, spark
1st-ear piercing scream, enlarge person, hydraulic push, mage armor, protection from evil
2nd-burning arc
At level 4 he's doing 7d6+7 fire damage with his burning arc to the primary target, and 2d6+2 sonic damage plus 1 round daze with his ear piercing scream. When he gets fireball at level 6 it will be doing 9d6+9 fire damage.
I have a level 4 blaster sorcerer for Serpent's Skull, and here's his build:
** spoiler omitted **
Looks like a great build :)
Those offensive spells especially seem like a great choice IMO.How do you get it to 7d6 and not 4d6 with that fire arc? Spell focus? Varisian tattoo?
Looks like a great build :)
Those offensive spells especially seem like a great choice IMO.
How do you get it to 7d6 and not 4d6 with that fire arc? Spell focus? Varisian tattoo?
Thanks :) EDIT: Although credit where credit is due... this build is very much inspired by STR Rangers build.
Varisian Tattoo raises his caster level for evocation spells by +1. Spell Specialization raises his caster level for the specialized spell by +2. So at level 4 he's casting buring arc at caster level 7.
At level 6 he will change his specialized spell to fireball, and at level 7 at the latest he will have to take Intensified Spell since his fireballs have hit the 10 dice cap.
At level 11 he will take Dazing Spell and will start casting intensified dazing fireballs at level 12.
I have a level 4 blaster sorcerer for Serpent's Skull, and here's his build:
** spoiler omitted **
Looks like a great build :)
Those offensive spells especially seem like a great choice IMO.
How do you get it to 7d6 and not 4d6 with that fire arc? Spell focus? Varisian tattoo?
its virisian tatoo and spell spezialization that adds +1 and +2 levels respectively, making it count as if you are level 7 when casting it and is thus doing 7d6 damage. Then imagine stacking both draconic and elemental (or orc) for 7d6 + 14 not too bad in aoe.
Then imagine stacking both draconic and elemental (or orc) for 7d6 + 14 not too bad in aoe.
The main problem with Crossblooded is that you lose a massive amount of spells/day for just +1 damage per damage dice.
Crossblooded is a trap.
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The main problem with Crossblooded is that you lose a massive amount of spells/day for just +1 damage per damage dice.
I think you lose spells known not spells each day.
I think that is even worse to lose.I think cross blooded only works well if you are going for a very narrow spell selection of if you are building a melee PC and just want a few buffing spells.
But I also have to admit, I've never really tried it myself.
I think you lose spells known not spells each day.
I think that is even worse to lose.
Correct, my bad.
I agree crossblooded is bad in most cases, that -1 spell known per level can be pretty bad.
BUT and its a big BUT, you get +1 damage, another class skill, better lineage powers (because you can now choose which one to pick), and if you intend on being a boomstick anyway, then you want to throw fireball or 2-3 other spells most of the time anyway. Not that bad of a trade i think.
You can also really get around that penalty on spells if you choose to go human sorc and get level bonus to spells, then the only way you will really feel it is at the highest level spell slot you can cast.
Ofcourse if you decide not to play human (or goblin actually), then playing a sorcerer with crossblooded sucks a lot, and then i compeltely agree with you.
Crossblooded is a trap.Unless you're a Wizard. Then it's a great 1 level dip.
Except that dipping, esp with a full spellcaster, is another sort of trap.
What book does this orc bloodline come from? I noticed it mentioned in other threads but I haven't seen in in the core, um or ap.
Orcs of Golarion, a little doubtful for anyone that isn't at least part Orc. In any case, being a level behind on spellcasting and the loss of a HP generally isn't worth it.
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Orcs of Golarion, a little doubtful for anyone that isn't at least part Orc. In any case, being a level behind on spellcasting and the loss of a HP generally isn't worth it.
A little doubtful? That's odd. Do you need to be a half-dragon to take the Draconic bloodline? An aberration to take the Aberrant bloodline? A fey creature to take the Fey bloodline?
Personally, I'd always assumed that many Sorcerers have had some odd couplings in their ancestry. Still, I don't see why this one bloodline should be Orc only.
Considering that magic often operates through contagion as well as actual heredity, it could have been an ancestor who was cursed by an orc shaman or who prevailed in a battle with an orc chieftan where both were within a few HP of dying, blood of both smeared all over each other, and if the orc had survived, a descendant of his would have been a sorceror of bloodline: Human.
(Seriously, why don't we get one of those? Could be restricted to non-humans only and have abilities related to being flexible and versatile, like extra feats or abilities.)