I'm thinking I need to pick up WOR just to see what they put together.
I know I have the issue of Dragon with a very out, very flamboyant and quite overweight gay rogue as a criminal mastermind. He seemed to be a very nice guy, but would have no problem with you becoming a speed bump if you crossed him.
I find TanithT’s suggestions really interesting; I have half a mind to go through a bunch of divination spells to see how they work, and the metaphysical implications might be fun for some people. I mean, if one casts a spell with the idea being to find the Princess X, and there isn’t one, what magic would do the work for you and figure out you meant the person who was known to their parents as such? If that person also always knew that they weren’t that girl, would any magic be able to find a princess who never existed? Hmm.
Hmmm. Maybe i can ask here, if people are interested in discussing it. Please tell me if this is a stupid question... But how do you guys feel about how to include trans* people in RPG world creation? I know theres officially trans characters in pathfinder, but havent read their parts. Where they wel done? Did the PCs realize their status as trans? What made them work/not work?
When i design adventures (for home use) Id like to include trans characters but since its mostly an oral medium I have a hard time figuring out how to do it without it turning out... Awkward, at best, andstraight up transphobic at worst. I mean, if i describe a character thats a woman, its not like id descrie her as a "trans woman", that seems it would be... Really bad. Or is it even important to include trans character, and have the PCs understand the person is trans? On one hand, trans characcters are hardly included at all in fantasy, on the other gandpointing out that they are trans might very easily lead to it becoming kind of... "not a real man/woman" which i of course dont want to have any part in.
Im not talking about making PCs who are trans, but more like NPCs and such. With a PC you get enough time todelve into their character, but not really with an NPC.
What are your thoughts, everyone? If you feel like sharing.
Hmmm...I think it's debatable on how Trans they were. They were fully changed by the point of the AP, so no longer really trans, but due to magic, now a woman (in every way from what I read). It has the backstory, but the AP itself is really between two married women.
I knew that there was one and could surmise who it was supposed to be from what I read on the boards, but in actual play, it never actually came out.
As far as the PC's realizing it or not, it really would depend on the GM. Nothing in the story really brings it out to tell the truth. The PC doesn't suddenly go...I was once a man...and there really doesn't seem like there's a specific place for that story to be told in game. I don't think there's really anything that would make a PC go...hey...I think this person used to be Trans, or anything to that regard.
I think that if the NPC is adventuring with the PC's, eventually they'll find out. Perhaps they may be a man, but they have to deal with periods (unless of course, they have some sort of magical solution). Perhaps they stumble across someone when they are bathing, or other such things, and they come to an understanding of the persons background and that they are trans (Japanese anime seems to do this type of stuff at least).
PS: Note I didn't actually GM WotR, I was only a player on this one, so I'm going off of what happened in our game and what I could tell. I did buy the PDF of the last one so I could see what happened there because we got a TPK prior to that, but otherwise, can only go off of what I saw in play (and of course read on the Paizo boards and what people discussed).
Thanks a lot for the answers, a lot of really great feedback here. And yeah theres no risk of me doing a trans 101 since most of the people i might play with (i dot currently have a hroup, am workig to get one) are way more knowledgable than me, and might potntially include trans players whom im not personal enough with to talk about trans issues and represebtation with. Hence, want to be very careful not to step on their toes. I dont really want to make a plot of it, dont know if theyd apöreciate trans* being used as a plot device.
Heck its so weird because theres not even a reason for a lot of the npcs to have genders or the same gender expressions as we have. To some extent id like to go the Beamo rute.
And on a side note, thats a weird thing, its very hard to make agendered characters; if youdont state a gender itll be assumed to be a man.
Very well, thanks again all. Ill have to try to pick up WoR when i can :)
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Hmmm. Maybe i can ask here, if people are interested in discussing it. Please tell me if this is a stupid question... But how do you guys feel about how to include trans* people in RPG world creation?
Like TanithT said, in backstory. For most characters (depending on setting specific, cultural elements) it'll be as up front (or not) as any cis/het character. Unless you're heavily interacting with an NPC it might not come up, or might not be relevant in a lot of interaction.
Here's one example from my home game. The PCs are in the planar city of Galisemni, and one of the NPCs that they've interacted with rather heavily is a protean-blooded tiefling named Il'setsya. It never actually came up in conversation directly during the course of the game, but Tanith asked me after the game, "Is Il'setsya trans*?"
The answer was a solid yes, but as it literally never came up in conversation in game I asked why Tanith thought so, and it came down to a few very subtle statements about her past in-game and Tanith's assertion that "I know you really well". The guess was correct and the character is in fact trans, though it likely won't be openly discussed in game or necessarily something the other players and PCs are aware of. But it's there, and by interaction regarding some elements of her experiences in the past (specifically her past as a starving, male-bodied street urchin and her interaction with a giant campaign bugaboo/macguffin called the Lethe Wall).
Will it ever come up in game? I can't say for certain, but it does provide more depth and emotional character for this character in specific.
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It's also possible, at least at low levels to the common historical/fantasy trope of the young woman/girl passing as a boy. Who could be trans* or not. Even in a less sexist world than the real historical one, there could easily be reasons to want to pass without actually wanting to be.
Personally, I'd be more tempted to play around with it in a more "fantasy" way than a more realistic take on trans*. With magic, it's far easier to change physical sex than it is in the real world. It's not much of a stretch to think there would be people who would do so temporarily, just to experiment or for more serious reasons. Along with curses, magical beings who can change, at will or under certain conditions. I've been toying with the idea of a alchemist who changes sex with the mutagen.
And then there's Orlando.
Well, I get the idea that in Golarion, as it is in the real world, it is cost prohibitive. =) As in, it is easier to buy a house than to make a permanent physical change.
Anyhow, I have met a lot of GLB gamers, but not yet a T.It sucks being a rarity.
If it makes you feel any better I've GMed for about 5 transexuals in my online games, so they're out there. :)
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Well, I get the idea that in Golarion, as it is in the real world, it is cost prohibitive. =) As in, it is easier to buy a house than to make a permanent physical change.It's also possible, at least at low levels to the common historical/fantasy trope of the young woman/girl passing as a boy. Who could be trans* or not. Even in a less sexist world than the real historical one, there could easily be reasons to want to pass without actually wanting to be.
Personally, I'd be more tempted to play around with it in a more "fantasy" way than a more realistic take on trans*. With magic, it's far easier to change physical sex than it is in the real world. It's not much of a stretch to think there would be people who would do so temporarily, just to experiment or for more serious reasons. Along with curses, magical beings who can change, at will or under certain conditions. I've been toying with the idea of a alchemist who changes sex with the mutagen.
And then there's Orlando.
OTOH, temporary changes are nearly trivial, at least for adventurers. For whom, admittedly, a house would also be a trivial expense :).
An excellent motivation to be an adventurer!
I find TanithT’s suggestions really interesting; I have half a mind to go through a bunch of divination spells to see how they work, and the metaphysical implications might be fun for some people. I mean, if one casts a spell with the idea being to find the Princess X, and there isn’t one, what magic would do the work for you and figure out you meant the person who was known to their parents as such? If that person also always knew that they weren’t that girl, would any magic be able to find a princess who never existed? Hmm.Quite possibly that divination would go astray. However if the spell was on the order of 'find the person who once wore this dress', these spell mechanics would be very unlikely to take the person's gender into account, even if the clothing itself was gendered.
Obviously, I'm not thinking as subtly as a wizard, or, alternatively, too extravagantly, like one of the world-domination variety. If we're talking about bending cosmic forces to our will to find someone, darn it, I just want to be able to identify them in some way and have the cosmic forces cough up, not muck about with evidence and material components like a jumped-up detective or a ranger with an animal companion, enhanced. ;)
In any case, if one were to try to do things with names, one would think prudence demands that one always specify "the person I know / who was known as..." Though reckless magicians also have their place. After all, what would folklore be without the consequences of ill-chosen words and unfounded assumptions?
I would like to think at least that if I were a witch and the Cold Duchess, I wouldn't necessarily get fooled by Xingu / Zorn of Zorna and his "name that starts with X and doesn't." Anyway, I'm being trivial, and things are definitely getting a bit too silly when it comes to "Thirteen Clocks" references.
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Well, I get the idea that in Golarion, as it is in the real world, it is cost prohibitive. =) As in, it is easier to buy a house than to make a permanent physical change.It's also possible, at least at low levels to the common historical/fantasy trope of the young woman/girl passing as a boy. Who could be trans* or not. Even in a less sexist world than the real historical one, there could easily be reasons to want to pass without actually wanting to be.
Personally, I'd be more tempted to play around with it in a more "fantasy" way than a more realistic take on trans*. With magic, it's far easier to change physical sex than it is in the real world. It's not much of a stretch to think there would be people who would do so temporarily, just to experiment or for more serious reasons. Along with curses, magical beings who can change, at will or under certain conditions. I've been toying with the idea of a alchemist who changes sex with the mutagen.
And then there's Orlando.
OTOH, temporary changes are nearly trivial, at least for adventurers. For whom, admittedly, a house would also be a trivial expense :).
That's exactly it. I get the feeling that adventurers that got lucky and the children of adventurers that go lucky or the merchants who sold to a bunch of adventurers would likely have the easiest time affording it.
An excellent motivation to be an adventurer!
Off topic somewhat, as it's not LGBT, but it deals with something that can be equally (if not moreso) as tough for those, and many see it as related.
Intersex situations and dating
It's actually on a mainstream news site, which brings attention to the condition and situation many find themselves in.
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Wow, it's been long time since I came here. Nice to see it still going. I can't even begin to think of some of the awesome stuff I've probably missed...
Update: been single for a while now. :( started looking again recently but no luck.
Sorry to hear that, DB3. You are awesome, though, and I think you will find somebody.
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This is completely unrelated and very off topic but my 6 year old niece raised $150 for the American Heart Association! Not too shabby to a 6-year old!
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Of particular interest to trans* individuals: Tissue-engineered autologous vaginal organs in patients: a pilot cohort study. was a paper published in Lancet just recently.
Big big big awesome implications, and I say this as someone who has worked in tissue engineering (livers) and with some of the techniques pioneered by the Wake Forest Institute of Regenerative Medicine's. Though this particular study wasn't specifically aimed for producing organs for implantation for MtF patients, it's a logical extension of the technique, and the same basic techniques are likewise applicable with some more work to FtM patients.
And as it's using autologous cells (cells from the patient's own body) to grow the organs, there's no issue with immune rejection as in conventional transplantation.
:D
I heard about that - it's truly amazing and had some earth shattering implications for quality of life for alot of people. No idea when it will be affordable, but still....
Nice new avatar, there.
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It's also possible, at least at low levels to the common historical/fantasy trope of the young woman/girl passing as a boy. Who could be trans* or not. Even in a less sexist world than the real historical one, there could easily be reasons to want to pass without actually wanting to be.
Personally, I'd be more tempted to play around with it in a more "fantasy" way than a more realistic take on trans*. With magic, it's far easier to change physical sex than it is in the real world. It's not much of a stretch to think there would be people who would do so temporarily, just to experiment or for more serious reasons. Along with curses, magical beings who can change, at will or under certain conditions. I've been toying with the idea of a alchemist who changes sex with the mutagen.
And then there's Orlando.
Both me and one of my players a while back have played different characters using this trope. Because it's fun, in a sort of dangerous way (if you use a real world setting in particular). Shakespeare and all. And, needless to say, there are literary antecedents going back to the middle ages for gender-bending magic (i.e., Yde et Olive and the 1001 Nights). Typically the change is done in fiction or drama to arrange for contact with the beloved, who is usually excluded from contact with the opposite sex. It shows an interesting disavowal of the gender = sexuality from way back.
I do not understand that study. How do the manage to connect the genital nerves to provide a sense of touch here? I am not saying it is impossible, mind you...
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I do not understand that study. How do the manage to connect the genital nerves to provide a sense of touch here? I am not saying it is impossible, mind you...
They don't actually have to reconnect anything, and what they transplant in doesn't start out with any nerves it seems.
As they explain in the full paper, by seeding the matrix with both epithelial and smooth muscle cells, upon transplantation the tissue underwent vascularization and innervation, aka blood vessels from the surrounding tissue infiltrated, expanded, and integrated into the transplant, and likewise nerves from the surrounding tissue did so as well.
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Hmmm. Maybe i can ask here, if people are interested in discussing it. Please tell me if this is a stupid question... But how do you guys feel about how to include trans* people in RPG world creation? I know theres officially trans characters in pathfinder, but havent read their parts. Where they wel done? Did the PCs realize their status as trans? What made them work/not work?
If you're interested in looking at incorporating trans people into fantasy worldbuilding, I'd recommend looking at our roles historially (which, unfortunately, can be pretty difficult. Victorian Europe and America did a great job of scrubbing minorities from the historical record). We have pre-Egyptian burial sites for transgender peoples, so obviously we've been around a while. Most ancient societies had a word and social role for trans people, and often it was something mystically inclined; priests, shamans, ect.
The Romans had the gallae. The Middle East had mukhannathun.Korea had the mudang. The Japanese had winagu nati. The Maya had muxe. In Greece, we know that Hecate, Diana, and hermes all had transgender cults. The Scythians, the culture Greece invented the "Amazons" around, specifically had a sect of trans women priestesses. By-and-by we're associated with healing, with good luck, and with communicating with otherworldly forces.
And then there was de Chevalier d'Eon in the 18th century, and she was just freakin' awesome: Spy, duelist, actress, courtier. She was basically trans woman James Bond at the height of Imperial France. Now THERE was an adventurer!
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Native Americans of North America had the concept of Two Spirit. In addition, you'll find that many tribal folklore and mythologies had deities that were both gender.
Duality is a concept I am using in my homebrew's deities. Perhaps one or more of them should differentiate in gender upon the axis I have created. One has no definable gender. Hm.
In Haitian Vodou, there are two guedes known as the Marassa; twin brothers who appear as gravediggers and ride the line between the living and the dead. One twin, Ghede Masaka, appears as an androgynous or transgendered man. What I've yet to uncover is whether Ghede Masaka is meant to be male to female, or female to male.
Either way, pretty neat.
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Hmmm. Maybe i can ask here, if people are interested in discussing it. Please tell me if this is a stupid question... But how do you guys feel about how to include trans* people in RPG world creation? I know theres officially trans characters in pathfinder, but havent read their parts. Where they wel done? Did the PCs realize their status as trans? What made them work/not work?If you're interested in looking at incorporating trans people into fantasy worldbuilding, I'd recommend looking at our roles historially (which, unfortunately, can be pretty difficult. Victorian Europe and America did a great job of scrubbing minorities from the historical record). We have pre-Egyptian burial sites for transgender peoples, so obviously we've been around a while. Most ancient societies had a word and social role for trans people, and often it was something mystically inclined; priests, shamans, ect.
The Romans had the gallae. The Middle East had mukhannathun.Korea had the mudang. The Japanese had winagu nati. The Maya had muxe. In Greece, we know that Hecate, Diana, and hermes all had transgender cults. The Scythians, the culture Greece invented the "Amazons" around, specifically had a sect of trans women priestesses. By-and-by we're associated with healing, with good luck, and with communicating with otherworldly forces.
And then there was de Chevalier d'Eon in the 18th century, and she was just freakin' awesome: Spy, duelist, actress, courtier. She was basically trans woman James Bond at the height of Imperial France. Now THERE was an adventurer!
From 1900's fiction there's Tip/Princess Ozma from the The Wonderful World of Oz series.
In Haitian Vodou, there are two guedes known as the Marassa; twin brothers who appear as gravediggers and ride the line between the living and the dead. One twin, Ghede Masaka, appears as an androgynous or transgendered man. What I've yet to uncover is whether Ghede Masaka is meant to be male to female, or female to male.
Either way, pretty neat.
im a huge scion fan and im disappointed these gods did not appear in the work. There are another pair of twins, however, one good and one evil, who dwell at crossroads. Could this be them?
im a huge scion fan and im disappointed these gods did not appear in the work. There are another pair of twins, however, one good and one evil, who dwell at crossroads. Could this be them?In Haitian Vodou, there are two guedes known as the Marassa; twin brothers who appear as gravediggers and ride the line between the living and the dead. One twin, Ghede Masaka, appears as an androgynous or transgendered man. What I've yet to uncover is whether Ghede Masaka is meant to be male to female, or female to male.
Either way, pretty neat.
Could be. I'll admit that I'm not as well versed in Vodu as I wish I was.
The same way they repair and reconnect nerves for accidental amputations I would assume.
No. With an amputation, what you do is stitch together the severed ends of the nerve, letting the neurons grow back into the distal nerve a millimeter per day. Without an existing nerve, this is not possible. Ah well, I am no expert. If the article says it works, it probably does. It certainly will not "just work" on an adult, though.
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Could be. I'll admit that I'm not as well versed in Vodu as I wish I was.im a huge scion fan and im disappointed these gods did not appear in the work. There are another pair of twins, however, one good and one evil, who dwell at crossroads. Could this be them?In Haitian Vodou, there are two guedes known as the Marassa; twin brothers who appear as gravediggers and ride the line between the living and the dead. One twin, Ghede Masaka, appears as an androgynous or transgendered man. What I've yet to uncover is whether Ghede Masaka is meant to be male to female, or female to male.
Either way, pretty neat.
Yes, they're the same ones. Though they're not good and evil; they're just partially spoiled children. It's important to realise these are not adults, though they are considered the oldest of all Lwa. All Lwa can possess any gender, so they have implications for how gender is treated in Vodoun - particularly for male horses for Ezili.
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From 1900's fiction there's Tip/Princess Ozma from the The Wonderful World of Oz series.
Words cannot express the love I had for Ozma as a little girl. Literally all I had for role models in the 80s were Ozma and a pink dinosaur.
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From 1900's fiction there's Tip/Princess Ozma from the The Wonderful World of Oz series.Words cannot express the love I had for Ozma as a little girl. Literally all I had for role models in the 80s were Ozma and a pink dinosaur.
Oh my lanta, Ozma <3
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So the Equality Center that I'm on the board for did a first annual "Big Gay Prom" this year. It was meant to be a prom for adults and to allow people who couldn't experience the event in high school to have some semblance of it now. I decided to run for Prom Queen since I'd never had that opportunity once upon a time. It was made all the more fun due to the really competitive campaign. My chief competition had a campaign manager who dressed as her own personal fairy last night. Some of the highlights of the night:
Dinner out with several friends, including my competition.
The Fairy getting ahold of a marker and writing "Becky for Queen" or just "B" on several balloons (and some people's -hers included- arms)
The marker falling into my hands and the word Becky on the fairy's arm turning into "Cori is better than Becky"
The fairy 'dying' and being brought back to life with our clapping.
The person we entrusted to be safe with the marker (and responsible) going around to all the balloons and changing them to "Don't Vote" Becky for Queen and "Cori B Queen".
Me rickrolling the whole party (it was an 80s theme, so appropriate)
Coronation which resulted in me getting crowned queen and my rival getting crowned princess.
Dollar dances afterwards where I had several dollars shoved down my bra so people could dance with the queen.
All in all I had an unbelievably good time. It was such a different experience than when I wore an uncomfortable tux to my real prom and felt so unbelievably out of place.
Glad to hear you had fun and won! Wish we had one of those proms down here in The People's Republic of Disney Florida :D
So the Equality Center that I'm on the board for did a first annual "Big Gay Prom" this year. It was meant to be a prom for adults and to allow people who couldn't experience the event in high school to have some semblance of it now. I decided to run for Prom Queen since I'd never had that opportunity once upon a time. It was made all the more fun due to the really competitive campaign. My chief competition had a campaign manager who dressed as her own personal fairy last night. Some of the highlights of the night:
Dinner out with several friends, including my competition.
The Fairy getting ahold of a marker and writing "Becky for Queen" or just "B" on several balloons (and some people's -hers included- arms)
The marker falling into my hands and the word Becky on the fairy's arm turning into "Cori is better than Becky"
The fairy 'dying' and being brought back to life with our clapping.
The person we entrusted to be safe with the marker (and responsible) going around to all the balloons and changing them to "Don't Vote" Becky for Queen and "Cori B Queen".
Me rickrolling the whole party (it was an 80s theme, so appropriate)
Coronation which resulted in me getting crowned queen and my rival getting crowned princess.
Dollar dances afterwards where I had several dollars shoved down my bra so people could dance with the queen.All in all I had an unbelievably good time. It was such a different experience than when I wore an uncomfortable tux to my real prom and felt so unbelievably out of place.
LOL! Sounds like you had an awesome time!!!!
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Oh one moment I forgot about:
I made campaign business cards that said "Don't be a DumDum, vote for Cori" and threaded a DumDum sucker through each one. At one point I saw the fairy sucking one, and pointed it out. She glared at me and threw the sucker at me. So much fun! Oh and she said "Tastes wonderful, like defeat!"
Oh one moment I forgot about:
I made campaign business cards that said "Don't be a DumDum, vote for Cori" and threaded a DumDum sucker through each one. At one point I saw the fairy sucking one, and pointed it out. She glared at me and threw the sucker at me. So much fun! Oh and she said "Tastes wonderful, like defeat!"
I think I saw a picture of that pop up on my Facebook feed. Glad you had fun and won.
I decided to run for Prom Queen since I'd never had that opportunity once upon a time.
Just curious, in this event, are men allowed to run for Prom Queen and vice versa for women to run for Prom King?
We had one woman run for king. No men ran for queen.
I assume she didn't win?
Surprised that no guys ran for Prom Queen....