The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.

[Marroar Gellantara]

If I was crafting a government, having a child in that country would be a form of contract. The government provides schooling, healthcare, and daycare. In return the parents try to protect our joint investment.

Any decent parent would take the deal, the rest can leave. With such a contract in place, you can as the government protect the child's rights without having to worry about parental rights, because the parents traded some of those away for money.

My grandfather was a psychologist in the department of corrections. Bad homes tend to be better for children than no home. That only becomes untrue if the parent or parents start behaving illegally. America's secondary option for those who do not have a home is abysmal.

[GreyWolfLord]

This is a very informative article I found.

Supreme Court faced gay rights decision in 1958

I had no idea about this until reading the article.

I'll hide the result for those who want to read the full article...but it's actually a bit of fascinating history I did not know about and thought perhaps some here would find it similarly fascinating.

It's one sentence from the article that basically summarizes what happened.

Spoiler:

By protecting ONE," he continued, "the Supreme Court facilitated the flourishing of a gay and lesbian culture and a sense of community at a time when the federal government was purging its ranks" of suspected gays.

[Sissyl]

In most of the dictatorships around the world, there were things aimed at producing adults with the correct views from children. This was Hitlerjugend, the Pioneers, and so on and so forth. Would you like to send your child to such an institution? What if you were a smart parent? The problem with having the state decide the curriculum is that you won't know when your country becomes something else.

[thejeff]

Sissyl wrote:

In most of the dictatorships around the world, there were things aimed at producing adults with the correct views from children. This was Hitlerjugend, the Pioneers, and so on and so forth. Would you like to send your child to such an institution? What if you were a smart parent? The problem with having the state decide the curriculum is that you won't know when your country becomes something else.

Because the only alternative to the Hitler Youth is giving parents complete control over their kids with no room for the government to intervene. Maybe in the case of physical abuse? But there are perfectly legal things like Jesus camps and pseudo-military style private schools for problem kids that are basically brainwashing and abuse. "Gay" is often considered "problem" for these purposes. So is "atheist" or just questioning.

And if you're going to have any kind of public education at all, the state is going to have a say in the curriculum. But if there's any kind of transparency and democratic control, then the populace can know and control what's taught. It's not perfect and it takes work on the part of the population, but it's better than any alternatives I know of.

[Kryzbyn]

The government intervenes when parents break the law. That happens now.
Hell, it happens when they don't. Some parents had their children removed from the home because the parents named them Hitler. I think we are as far down that road as I'd like to see.

[thejeff]

Kryzbyn wrote:

The government intervenes when parents break the law. That happens now.

Hell, it happens when they don't. Some parents had their children removed from the home because the parents named them Hitler. I think we are as far down that road as I'd like to see.

"When they break the law." That's always true. (At least in theory.)

The question is whether the laws are good. Some of the re-education camps are "legal", but seriously abusive. I'm sure there are also cases where the government steps in for things I wouldn't think justified.

It's not a question of "how far", but of whether particular laws are a good approach or not. It's quite likely there's overreach in some areas, but not enough done in others.

*In the "kids named Hitler" case, at least the one I saw, though I'd be surprised if that didn't play a role and it's certainly what the father claims, the official reason was more the standard abuse/safety of the child line. Records are sealed, of course.

[Mikaze]

The Doomkitten wrote:

@Mikaze: Good going! Seeing that helped out a lot, and gave me just a little more resolve for what's coming up. I really hope I'm not breaking some community faux pas here, but... I haven't been on the boards long, and I can't really congratulate you without knowing what kind of LGBT you are. Again, sorry if that's a bit personal or offensive.

No offense taken! I'm bisexual, which will likely surprise absolutely no one that has followed certain threads. ;)

And though it's belated, best of luck to you! I hope things went well for you there! :)

Todd Stewart wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Todd Stewart wrote:

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

There are hints that the upcoming Rat Queens issue, Rat Queens Special: Braga #1, will deal with a topic of much interest to this group. Must. not. spoil. it. further.

(And really, if you're hanging out on an RPG messageboard, you should already be reading Rat Queens anyway.)

I'm so looking forward to that one-shot special, and then after that I'm just about dancing because of Stjepan Sejic coming on as their new artist.

Where have I heard that name before...

*googles*

SUNSTONE!

Precisely.

He's also done work for Image before, with Witchblade being where I first came across his work. He's also doing his own comic 'Death Vigil', and apparently he's working on a 'teen witchblade' spinoff comic. I have no idea how he manages to sleep with that workload. :D

spits drink

Wait, he's going to be the new artist! Holy crap, I'm so glad he's making a name for himself in the mainstream! His wo Why I've never seen any of this fellow's work but I must say that this excitement surrounding his work is infectious. I'm sure he's quite good and am looking forward to seeing what he does!

[Terquem]

Did anyone else see the pic of Conchita Wurst at the Golden Globes? Man, talk about excellent style.

[Artemis Moonstar]

Kryzbyn wrote:

The government intervenes when parents break the law. That happens now.

Hell, it happens when they don't. Some parents had their children removed from the home because the parents named them Hitler. I think we are as far down that road as I'd like to see.

Yeah, um... When a single mother gets arrested for letting her kids play on the lawn and detained for about 16 hours for child neglect, even while she was sitting on the porch in a lawn chair and watching them... I think something's pretty screwed up.

Said kids left at the house while the mother was dragged to jail were, as I recall, around 10 or so, and it was dinner time on a school night.

And people wonder why my fiance and I don't want kids.

[Rysky]

Mikaze wrote:

The Doomkitten wrote:

@Mikaze: Good going! Seeing that helped out a lot, and gave me just a little more resolve for what's coming up. I really hope I'm not breaking some community faux pas here, but... I haven't been on the boards long, and I can't really congratulate you without knowing what kind of LGBT you are. Again, sorry if that's a bit personal or offensive.

No offense taken! I'm bisexual, which will likely surprise absolutely no one that has followed certain threads. ;)

And though it's belated, best of luck to you! I hope things went well for you there! :)

Todd Stewart wrote:

Rysky wrote:

Todd Stewart wrote:

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:

There are hints that the upcoming Rat Queens issue, Rat Queens Special: Braga #1, will deal with a topic of much interest to this group. Must. not. spoil. it. further.

(And really, if you're hanging out on an RPG messageboard, you should already be reading Rat Queens anyway.)

I'm so looking forward to that one-shot special, and then after that I'm just about dancing because of Stjepan Sejic coming on as their new artist.

Where have I heard that name before...

*googles*

SUNSTONE!

Precisely.

He's also done work for Image before, with Witchblade being where I first came across his work. He's also doing his own comic 'Death Vigil', and apparently he's working on a 'teen witchblade' spinoff comic. I have no idea how he manages to sleep with that workload. :D

spits drink

Wait, he's going to be the new artist! Holy crap, I'm so glad he's making a name for himself in the mainstream! His wo Why I've never seen any of this fellow's work but I must say that this excitement surrounding his work is infectious. I'm sure he's quite good and am looking forward to seeing what he does!

I get the feeling you're horrible at poker, arntchu?

[Sissyl]

thejeff wrote:

Because the only alternative to the Hitler Youth is giving parents complete control over their kids with no room for the government to intervene. Maybe in the case of physical abuse? But there are perfectly legal things like Jesus camps and pseudo-military style private schools for problem kids that are basically brainwashing and abuse. "Gay" is often considered "problem" for these purposes. So is "atheist" or just questioning.

And if you're going to have any kind of public education at all, the state is going to have a say in the curriculum. But if there's any kind of transparency and democratic control, then the populace can know and control what's taught. It's not perfect and it takes work on the part of the population, but it's better than any alternatives I know of.

I never said it was. The idea that the state should take children who are abused or neglected by their parents IS an iffy one. The books are full of cases where this was done and the children were thereafter treated far worse than before. It's an issue where there simply are no easy answers. Neither extreme is a good idea. Perhaps a mix is the best you can hope for? In the US, you have a possibility to homeschool. In Sweden, which used to have the best schools in the world but doesn't anymore, parents have no right to keep their children from school, even if some have done so in pretty noticed cases when the mobbing was too harsh to handle. As for the curriculum, there is no shortage of opinions for what the children should learn at school, whether it's genus theory, feminist self defense, environmentalism, "ethics", communication, foreign cultures, that we are Europeans, or whatever. Many of the things that HAVE been tried have been a complete waste of time, too, but luckily the schools are stodgy enough not to change too quickly. Inertia has advantages.

[thejeff]

Sissyl wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Because the only alternative to the Hitler Youth is giving parents complete control over their kids with no room for the government to intervene. Maybe in the case of physical abuse? But there are perfectly legal things like Jesus camps and pseudo-military style private schools for problem kids that are basically brainwashing and abuse. "Gay" is often considered "problem" for these purposes. So is "atheist" or just questioning.

And if you're going to have any kind of public education at all, the state is going to have a say in the curriculum. But if there's any kind of transparency and democratic control, then the populace can know and control what's taught. It's not perfect and it takes work on the part of the population, but it's better than any alternatives I know of.

I never said it was. The idea that the state should take children who are abused or neglected by their parents IS an iffy one. The books are full of cases where this was done and the children were thereafter treated far worse than before. It's an issue where there simply are no easy answers. Neither extreme is a good idea. Perhaps a mix is the best you can hope for? In the US, you have a possibility to homeschool. In Sweden, which used to have the best schools in the world but doesn't anymore, parents have no right to keep their children from school, even if some have done so in pretty noticed cases when the mobbing was too harsh to handle. As for the curriculum, there is no shortage of opinions for what the children should learn at school, whether it's genus theory, feminist self defense, environmentalism, "ethics", communication, foreign cultures, that we are Europeans, or whatever. Many of the things that HAVE been tried have been a complete waste of time, too, but luckily the schools are stodgy enough not to change too quickly. Inertia has advantages.

The idea that parents should have full and absolute control over their children with no recourse in cases of abuse or neglect is worse than "iffy". It's disgusting.

Does it sometimes go wrong? Of course. Should we work to improve protections, both for the children who are taken away and for those cases where they shouldn't be? Of course.
Which is generally the way things are. Extremes are bad. Taking all the kids and raising them in creches is bad. No supervision at all is bad. Muddling through the middle is awkward, but it's the only real option.

Allowing home schooling is good. I was actually home schooled for a few years as we were traveling in odd circumstances. Having some level of control over home schooling to verify that the kids are actually being taught is a good thing. Shutting down public education and leaving only home schooling as an option would be a horribly bad thing.

[Sissyl]

For once we agree on something. It's a bitter pill to swallow that we can't have perfection.

[Rabbiteconomist]

I just noticed this thread. I'm a polyamorous bisexual married to another poly bisexual, and we are both gamers. We are happy.

In local LGBT news, our local counties in Florida stopped performing marriages in courthouses when the ruling was overturned but at least the rest of Florida's govt offices are performing now.

[Kryzbyn]

Welcome!

[Gaberlunzie]

thejeff wrote:

The idea that parents should have full and absolute control over their children with no recourse in cases of abuse or neglect is worse...

And to that I'd add that the idea that for example gender science is more "political" than modern neoliberal economics (which sissyl didn't seem to object to being taught in school...).

[Sissyl]

Well, I particularly remember one instance where one of the genus-people started out a lecture by saying "each and every man in this room is going to beat women". The evidence of which was Eva Lundgren and her incompetent statistics-backed paranoid drivel thesis "Slagen dam". Oh, and then of course a 45 minute tirade of how the powerful men in the patriarchy sent less well-off men to punish women for gaining influence in society.

Regarding economy, I believe we got very little regarding any of it. Perhaps it would have been different if I had studied the economy program.

EDIT: Thinking more about it, we got the basics of how the economy as it was worked. We also got group work to present one type of investment one could make. As I said, not that much.

[Gaberlunzie]

Huh, i got politically charged lectures dealing with economics since like 6th grade or something. And then all through junior high and high school (never managed college). Not to talk about how politically charged history and civics were.

Andwhats the issue with slagen dam? It was released, a bunch of antifeminists claimed it was bad science b/c political reasons, there was an inquiry on the university about the study and it was cleared of any wrongdoings. Also, slagen dam was a study, not a thesis.
Of course, drawing the conclusion from ot that every single individual man will beat women is ludicrous, but thats not in the study either.

[Sissyl]

Oh, but it is. It is a bit complicated and I can't remember the exact numbers, but the gist of it was: When checking those men who had assaulted women for other problems, they found that (say) psychiatric illness was present for 35%, drug abuse for 45% and economic or social issues in 60%. Slagen dam drew the conclusion that 40% of the offenders had none of the factors, and that such violence was not correlated to psychiatric illness, drug abuse or economic problems... This was the background for the slogan "alla män slår" (all men beat).

There is a difference between a study being deliberately false and being incompetently done. I don't really think Eva Lundgren wanted to cheat - she was just completely incompetent.

[Gaberlunzie]

EDIT: Since we're pretty far OT, I moved the discussion here: Link

[KSF]

Comic Book Resources interviews Rat Queens writer Kurtis Wiebe about the new one-shot out this week, featuring the backstory of a transgender orc warrior, Braga.

Curious about this. Have not read any Rat Queens yet.

[Terquem]

Very interseting

[DM Under The Bridge]

Sissyl wrote:

In most of the dictatorships around the world, there were things aimed at producing adults with the correct views from children. This was Hitlerjugend, the Pioneers, and so on and so forth. Would you like to send your child to such an institution? What if you were a smart parent? The problem with having the state decide the curriculum is that you won't know when your country becomes something else.

Can't trust the state! Especially if you are a minority of any kind or far away from the central cities in rural areas (they don't know what is best for you and really will have a different culture).

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

You can't trust the people around you either if you're a minority. There's many reasons why LGBTQ people leave the rural hellholes they're born in and congregate in big cities. One of those reasons is that sexual minorities will find better prospects if they cluster together. However, the attitude of rural folks against anything different or unusual is also high on the list.

[DM Under The Bridge]

Well rural folk aren't the same everywhere (I got away with a lot of oddness), you are talking about the American heavily religious rural context yeah?

If you build friendships, connections, participate and help others, those people around you may surprise you.

[thejeff]

DM Under The Bridge wrote:

Sissyl wrote:

In most of the dictatorships around the world, there were things aimed at producing adults with the correct views from children. This was Hitlerjugend, the Pioneers, and so on and so forth. Would you like to send your child to such an institution? What if you were a smart parent? The problem with having the state decide the curriculum is that you won't know when your country becomes something else.

Can't trust the state! Especially if you are a minority of any kind or far away from the central cities in rural areas (they don't know what is best for you and really will have a different culture).

Looking at US History, while minorities have been treated poorly by all scales of government, the more local (city/town or state) have often been worse and sometimes forced to behave by the feds.

Sometimes, the other way round (Fugitive Slave laws?), but more often not.
The central government has also at time forced things like education, electrification and telephone service on those poor rural folk who didn't want any of that fancy big-city nonsense.

[Jessica Price]

KSF wrote:

Comic Book Resources interviews Rat Queens writer Kurtis Wiebe about the new one-shot out this week, featuring the backstory of a transgender orc warrior, Braga.

Curious about this. Have not read any Rat Queens yet.

Whatever you're doing right now, it's not as fun as reading Rat Queens. :D

[Gaberlunzie]

KSF wrote:

Comic Book Resources interviews Rat Queens writer Kurtis Wiebe about the new one-shot out this week, featuring the backstory of a transgender orc warrior, Braga.

Curious about this. Have not read any Rat Queens yet.

Rat Queens is worth reading. It's a bit cheezy and over the top, and the pacing is far from perfect, but it's a nice read and I think it'll get a lot better in days to come as the creators get better at it.

[Liz Courts]

Jessica Price wrote:

KSF wrote:

Comic Book Resources interviews Rat Queens writer Kurtis Wiebe about the new one-shot out this week, featuring the backstory of a transgender orc warrior, Braga.

Curious about this. Have not read any Rat Queens yet.

Whatever you're doing right now, it's not as fun as reading Rat Queens. :D

Exactly this.

[KSF]

Next time I'm in a comics shop, I'll give Rat Queens a go.

[Kajehase]

Just saw this.

[Lissa Guillet]

KSF wrote:

Curious about this. Have not read any Rat Queens yet.

You definitely should. It's filthy in all the best ways and is a pretty good story so far. Pick up the first trade and the Braga Special. You should go get the Braga special today. Do it. Do it now! =)

[Terquem]

I know it's off topic, but may I ask, of those of you who are fans of Rat Queens, when you say it is "filthy" or something like that. Do you mean it is explicit in ways, I mean, gee I am having trouble asking this politely, but is it like, "x" rated? Or merely "R" rated

[mechaPoet]

Terquem wrote:

I know it's off topic, but may I ask, of those of you who are fans of Rat Queens, when you say it is "filthy" or something like that. Do you mean it is explicit in ways, I mean, gee I am having trouble asking this politely, but is it like, "x" rated? Or merely "R" rated

Just "R," I would say. It's got occasional gore and drug use/reference, but mostly the filth is the dialogue rife with swearing and sexual reference (innuendo and not).

[Terquem]

Thank you, I don't really like having x rated material in the house, but if it is only R, I'll try to check it out.

[Lissa Guillet]

So... I put in my Insurance Preauthorization for surgery last night.

[Lissa Guillet]

It's been nearly 15 years since I transitioned, went pseudo stealth 12 years ago came out again 2 or 3 years ago... Long journey to get to this point.

[Kryzbyn]

Is that good? We happy about this?

EDIT: ninja'd by clarification :)

Prayers and good thoughts your way.

[Rysky]

Was with Kryz until clarification :3

*sends hugs and positive feelings*

[Haladir]

Lissa-- Best iof luck, and sending big hugs!

[Joynt Jezebel]

Winterthorn wrote:

I haven't met one LGBT gamer in person either.

Until they hit 40. (Yeah, there's something wry in that.) Then they like antiques!

At 40 they identify with antiques as they now qualify as one. :P

And you almost certainly have met LGBT gamers, you just don't know it. I am fond of telling people that if they knew everything about the sexuality of everyone they know, there would be some things that would leave them astonished.

[KSF]

That's wonderful, Lissa! Good luck with the surgery!

[KSF]

The New York City Health Department has added a page on Trans Health to the city's website. Topics include changing identity documents, suicide prevention, finding a place to stay, and services for trans youth (among other things).

Edit to add: They also include a list of trans friendly medical clinics in New York. That is going to be hugely useful to a lot of people.

The site also includes a brochure they've published on trans women's health. No brochure for trans men, unfortunately. Apart from that misstep, it's nice to see a major city do something like this.

And the city's new rules that make it easer to change the gender marker on NYC birth certificates also went into effect this past Monday.

(I'm now wishing I'd been born in NYC like my brother was, instead of NJ. I still have to wait for surgery to change mine, thanks to Chris Christie.)

[Lissa Guillet]

Nice! Way to go NYC

[Lissa Guillet]

KSF wrote:

(I'm now wishing I'd been born in NYC like my brother was, instead of NJ. I still have to wait for surgery to change mine, thanks to Chris Christie.)

I gotta say, at least you weren't born in a state that won't recognize at all. So glad I wasn't born where I grew up.

[Freehold DM]

waves, smiles, tosses Nets jerseys into the crowd

[KSF]

Lissa Guillet wrote:

KSF wrote:

(I'm now wishing I'd been born in NYC like my brother was, instead of NJ. I still have to wait for surgery to change mine, thanks to Chris Christie.)

I gotta say, at least you weren't born in a state that won't recognize at all. So glad I wasn't born where I grew up.

Yeah, that's very true.

[Todd Stewart]

Best of luck with the surgery and the recovery afterwards Lissa. :)

[pH unbalanced]

EDIT: Thought better of this post...probably a bit too personal. Saved the text elsewhere..may refine and repost later.

Sorry about the bother.

[Mikaze]

Prayers and wishes going out to you, Lissa. You're gonna rock this. :)