A charming and attractive courtesan might have no trouble lining up customers, but that doesn't mean she'll be any good at running her own business.
Edit: To clarify, that dwarf would make a great madame, but that doesn't mean she'll get a lot of clients personally.
... or we could start talking about the actual skills involved, but this site is supposed to be PG, I think.
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Calistria is the hot one. Desna's goes for experiences of all sorts, but more in the "boldly go where no sentient has gone before" style.
And a really experienced dwarf might have a lot to offer. Please pass the brain bleach.
Charisma is not appearance. I'd rather get laid with a lot of uninteresting, boring, lack-of-personality top models, than with a Lich. And Lichs are the ones who get racial bonus to Charisma, you know.
Courtesan is not exactly the same as prostitute...
you're right, they generally do a lot more talking and more services than just straight carnal pleasures...
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Nice to see I'm not the only one concerned about the dwarf-whores.
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I'd say that the actual skills of getting people to want to sleep with you are Diplomacy and maybe Bluff or some Performance skills. And how good you actually are in bed is not currently governed bygame mechanics, though Dex, Con, Int, and Cha are all potentially involved.
But Profession has nothing to do with any of that. Profession solely governs your ability to make money at the profession in question, and in the case of some Professions, little else.
I mean, a Str 5, Wis 16, BAB +0 character without any Survival can take Profession (Soldier) and be a seasoned campaigner, and make money at it (probably either by working the system or serving a vital role in logistics), but it has nothing to do with his fighting capabilities. This is the same situation...in a somewhat different venue.
And, for reference, the deity who most favors courtesans is Calistria, not Desna. Desna doesn't have anything against working girls (or boys!) but they aren't her particular thing in the way they are for Calistria.
Well I think that Calistria woudl be a more likely source of help with this. She is a goddes of Lust, Trickery, and Revenge. The trait of a Calistrian prostitue is in the advanced players gude, but they push more to sense moative and diplomancy with a +1 to each of those skills. Also they get the skill Profession (courtenan) treated as a class skill for them so with that 10 wis you end up with a +4 to its roll just by putting one rank in the skill.
I think from reading the Profession (courtenan) skill and the trait of Calistrian prostitue they are making the skill more along the lines of the "traditional" Gesha of Japan more entainer and compaian then for the sex.
This is a common problem that people have with the Profession skill.
Profession (guard) isn't based on your combat ability; Profession (blacksmith) isn't based on your actual Craft skills.
As others have noted, the Profession skill is about the ability to run a successful business. I have always held that the Profession skills are specifically about making money and the things you have to know to make money in an area. Think of them as the "entrepreneur skills".
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This is why Pathfinder needs to accept Perform (Services) as a legit perform skill. :]
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Oh, and +1 on low Charisma being able to have sexy appearance.. and high charisma not necessarily meaning hot looks.
Examples: Amiri (our iconic Barbarian) has Charisma 8. And Feiya (the iconic Witch) has been strongly implied to have poor Charisma. Both are very attractive women indeed.
And +100 on needing wisdom to make money on the horizontal bop as opposed to charisma, anyway.
Yeah, low Wisdom people blow their money real quick, both in fiction and in life.
Well the 3.5 Book of Erotic Fantasy has Perform (Sexual Technique) for the actual act of the horizontal mambo. Also, +1 on Profession being the managerial/entrepreneurial skills to make the money.
In the mean time, a courtesan has several meanings throughout history. Excerpt from Wikipedia (since they sum it up better than I can).
"A courtesan was originally a female courtier, which means a person who attends the court of a monarch or other powerful person.
In feudal society, the court was the centre of government as well as the residence of the monarch, and social and political life were often completely mixed together. Prior to the Renaissance, courtesans served to convey information untrusted to servants to visiting dignitaries. In Renaissance Europe, courtiers played an extremely important role in upper-class society. As it was customary during this time for royal couples to lead separate lives — commonly marrying simply to preserve bloodlines and to secure political alliances — men and women would often seek gratification and companionship from people living at court. In fact, the verb "to court" originally meant "to be or reside at court", and later came to mean "to behave as a courtier" and then "to pay amorous attention to somebody". The most intimate companion of a ruler was called the favourite.
In Renaissance usage, the Italian word "cortigiana", feminine of "cortigiano" (courtier) came to refer to "the ruler's mistress", and then to a well-educated and independent woman of loose morals, eventually a trained artisan of dance and singing, especially one associated with wealthy, powerful, or upper-class men who provided luxuries and status in exchange for companionship. The word was borrowed by English from Italian through the French form "courtisane" during the 16th century, especially associated to the meaning of "court-mistress" and "prostitute".
A male figure comparable to the courtesan was the Italian cicisbeo, the French chevalier servant, the Spanish cortejo or estrecho. It actually seems that the figure of the chevalier servant (French, lit. serving cavalier, lady's escort) of a married lady was quite common in Europe up to the 18th century.
The courtesans of East Asia, particularly those of the Japanese empire, held a different social role than that of their European counterparts. Examples of Japanese courtesans included the Oiran class, who were more focused on the aspect of entertainment in comparison with European courtesans.
Today, the term courtesan has become a euphemism to designate an escort or a prostitute, especially one who attracts wealthy clients."
So, the primary question is... What "courtesan" are we talking about here? Those women of the court, the mistresses and carnal relations of the noblemen, the geisha (which actually rarely ever did any form of sexual service), or the modern-day prostitute?
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All I can think of when I hear courtesan is Nicole Kidman's character from Moulin Rouge.
Something between a high class "escort" and an exotic dancer.
Once you go dwarf, you never . . . uh . . . hmm...
Well, if you make your dwarf courtesan, may I suggest the name Gimlet?
This is a common problem that people have with the Profession skill.
Profession (guard) isn't based on your combat ability; Profession (blacksmith) isn't based on your actual Craft skills.
As others have noted, the Profession skill is about the ability to run a successful business. I have always held that the Profession skills are specifically about making money and the things you have to know to make money in an area. Think of them as the "entrepreneur skills".
Profession skill is about performing your tasks correctly - earning the hard cash is primary function of most professions because most professions given as an example are focused on providing services. This is not their sole function - from description of the skill: "You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession's daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems."
For example, character rolls his Profession [sailor] to sail a ship.
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Profession skill is about performing your tasks correctly - earning the hard cash is primary function of most professions because most professions given as an example are focused on providing services. This is not their sole function - from description of the skill: "You know how to use the tools of your trade, how to perform the profession's daily tasks, how to supervise helpers, and how to handle common problems."
For example, character rolls his Profession [sailor] to sail a ship.
Indeed. As long as there's no other skill or trait to govern said professional skills. You don't roll Profession (Soldier) to make attacks, after all. Being sexually desirable clearly falls under Diplomacy, feigning interest is clearly Bluff, and reading people falls under Sense Motive, all in the same way attacking falls under the combat rules, and there are no rules anywhere for sex (nor should there be), so the Profession clearly covers everything else a courtesan does, but not those things.
Which just happens to basically come down to making money. Much like the entirety of Profession (Blacksmith) aside from the money falls under Crafts skills.
Once you go dwarf, you never . . . uh . . . hmm...
Well, if you make your dwarf courtesan, may I suggest the name Gimlet?
Gimlet
Definition of GIMLET
: a small tool with a screw point, grooved shank, and cross handle for boring holes
Not comin' ANYWHERE near THAT with my 10 foot pole I tell you hwat.
The second definition would be an awesome name for a gigolo though:
Definition of GIMLET
: having a piercing or penetrating quality
So i wonder, what sort of masterwork tool would help this profession?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNkGbTuGHd0
Courtesan is not exactly the same as prostitute...you're right, they generally do a lot more talking and more services than just straight carnal pleasures...
Like providing cover and distractions for assassins.
A serious question, then... Does it actually make sense to have different profession skills at all? After all, if we are only covering the business side of things, there is little reason to think that courtesan, miller and caravanneer would function differently. You know how to balance expenses, how to get new customers, how to judge the value of investments, how to keep customers happy, and so on. There is some variation, but still. Do we need different Profession skills?
Well you also know how to operate related equipment, techniques how to accomplish whatever your job is etc. Not every profession has you as the head of organization, but doing the gruntwork.
Sometimes profession skills also come up in adventuring. The party finds themselves on a boat needing to escape. Now the guy who took profession (sailor) gets to shine. For example.
I also use it as a sort of knowledge skill. A character with a certain profession might know if some working equipment is being used incorrectly, or something is generally wrong with it.
"That guy isn't a farmer, he can't even hold a scythe right."
Charisma is not appearance. I'd rather get laid with a lot of uninteresting, boring, lack-of-personality top models, than with a Lich. And Lichs are the ones who get racial bonus to Charisma, you know.
From the SRD.
"Charisma measures a character's personality, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and appearance"
Anyway, I imagine courtesan to work more like Inara in Firefly, as in sex is not always required.
Sometimes an escort is just an escort.
Oh, and +1 on low Charisma being able to have sexy appearance.. and high charisma not necessarily meaning hot looks.Examples: Amiri (our iconic Barbarian) has Charisma 8. And Feiya (the iconic Witch) has been strongly implied to have poor Charisma. Both are very attractive women indeed.
You can have a low Charisma and be smoking hot (looking). Just means that you have other deficiencies to make up for it. Amiri might be godawful hot, but she's also probably rude, belligerent, loud and uncouth -- great, she's nice to look at, but if she opens her mouth people find reasons to be somewhere else. Feiya may have serious problems relating to people, and prefer solitude unless absolutely necessary. In both cases, it's going to take people some serious effort to get to know these women, and on the surface, they're just going to drive others away.
By the by, my PFS Cheliax Paladin (of Shelyn) has Profession: Pimp. Still trying to reconcile some of these things, but hey, prostitution is a legal business in Absalom, and when he takes people in (he's an equality-for-the-sexes kind of pimp), he's providing them with food, shelter, clothing, and training and a position in an honored and ancient profession. Tell me that's not Lawful Good...
Once you go dwarf, you never . . . uh . . . hmm...?
Thanks bridesmaid. Like the beard. Gives me something to hang on to!
And a really experienced dwarf might have a lot to offer. Please pass the brain bleach.
I feel like (hope?) this is only time it will ever be relevant to post my Sex Dwarf build...
Bard (Diva)
strength 14, dexterity 14, constitution 14, intelligence 10, wisdom 10, charisma 14
traits: Dirty Fighter, Prehensile Whip
weapons: whip, sap
Feats:
1: Weapon Focus (whip)
2:
3: Whip Mastery
4:
5: Breadth of Experience
6:
7: Improved Whip Mastery
8:
9: Persuasive
10:
11: Enforcer
Spells:
cantrips: daze, message, unwitting ally
1st level: Unnatural Lust, Beguiling Gift, Charm Person
2nd level: Reckless Infatuation, Hold Person, Eagle's Splendor, Enthrall, Honeyed Tongue
3rd level: Lesser Geas, Deep Slumber, Confusion
4th level: Dominate Person, Mass Daze
5th level: Joyful Rapture, Mind Fog, Mass Suggestion
6th level: Euphoric Tranquility, Mass Charm Monster, Waves of Ecstasy, Pied Piping
(I am very much considering playing this character at PFS and putting on Sex Dwarf whenever Inspire Courage is active)
Well I think that Calistria woudl be a more likely source of help with this. She is a goddes of Lust, Trickery, and Revenge. The trait of a Calistrian prostitue is in the advanced players gude, but they push more to sense moative and diplomancy with a +1 to each of those skills. Also they get the skill Profession (courtenan) treated as a class skill for them so with that 10 wis you end up with a +4 to its roll just by putting one rank in the skill.
I think from reading the Profession (courtenan) skill and the trait of Calistrian prostitue they are making the skill more along the lines of the "traditional" Gesha of Japan more entainer and compaian then for the sex.
Well, CHA is about getting people to do what you want. WIS is more about finding out what people want. Remember: the customer is always right. But they are also very picky and only have a vague idea of what they want.
In more realistic terms, wisdom would come into play in how it is run. Picking the venue, advertising yourself, picking out the right client that will not gut you for your wallet, etc, etc. If we get a bit less diplomatic in what we call the skill, then you can imagine the job would also include picking the right street/tavern/real estate for a 'house of ill repute' so that you are accessible and visible to clients without getting moral authorities onto your case.
My two bits on the charisma/appearance discussion: even if it does reference appearance, that might not necessarily mean physical traits. It could just as easily reference the way you hold yourself. Charisma is about having the confidence that you can use your will to cause others (and even the fabric of the universe itself) to do what you want. I'm sure we can all reference a dozen different BBEG that have good CHA, but have melting faces. But they have enough confidence in their power that it gives off an extra layer of impression of their might. But this is just a bit of conjecture. *shrugs*
A serious question, then... Does it actually make sense to have different profession skills at all? After all, if we are only covering the business side of things, there is little reason to think that courtesan, miller and caravanneer would function differently. You know how to balance expenses, how to get new customers, how to judge the value of investments, how to keep customers happy, and so on. There is some variation, but still. Do we need different Profession skills?
I think it's possible our modern setting is informing your perception of the similarity of various management functions across the professions. You are entirely correct, but you come from an age where there is vocabulary and understanding and courses for 'managerial' skills. In the earlier age I think most of us model our settings on, these skills are hard-won over years, starting as an apprentice or shopkeep or such. And while yes, they are transferable skillsets, they are not (in most settings) seen as such. The only transferable 'credit' most employers/employees/customers would allow, they'd refer to and think of as "can read and right" shading toward "man of letters", or "made her fortune in brothels". Possibly even just "rich folk".
I think the point I'm trying to make is that we moderns have the concept of a professional manager, transferable like an interchangeable part, into multiple businesses. While the more ancient settings might lack such a concept, and have managers who are only incidentally and accidentally managers, growing into that role between loading wheat hulls into the mill (miller) or watering the mules (caravaneer). Skipping right past the (courtesan), there. :)
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A serious question, then... Does it actually make sense to have different profession skills at all? After all, if we are only covering the business side of things, there is little reason to think that courtesan, miller and caravanneer would function differently. You know how to balance expenses, how to get new customers, how to judge the value of investments, how to keep customers happy, and so on. There is some variation, but still. Do we need different Profession skills?
I would say yes, we still do. I think people forget that it doesn't just mean that you know how to manage the books for your business (which you can do with the appraise skill theoretically) it's also the skills of the trade. Take profession (sailor) as an example, they don't just know how to balance the books they know how to tie ropes, the best shipping routes, the safest ports, the cheapest ports, nautical dangers, navigation, and potentially proper ways to entreat foreign customers in their native lands. This skill is meant to cover that.
Now lets look at the courtesan. they wouldn't just know how to manage their money, they would know the local diplomatic climates, proper dress, delicacies of the lands, the current fads floating around the lands they work (and not just sexual ones), where and who they are allowed to work with (ie their legality), and potentially who they would talk to to enforce outstanding debts.