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The Travel domain is great, but I think that you are going to have a hard time finding a deity which has the travel domain and also supports a meele cleric by have a good weapon and another good domain choice.
I'm sure that with sufficient splatbook diving you could find one, I'll take a look later.
The travel domain weapons are pretty bad, but that's okay. The best one available is, sadly, the trident.
However, there is nothing wrong with certain simple weapons. A longspear is amazing and a great way to use a high strength score. So is a morningstar.
If you like, be a half-orc cleric and rock a falchion or greataxe.
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The issue with wands is that they are touch attacks, if you are in melee and you try and touch a fellow man, in a threatened square, it will provoke. If the wand is not already out, it takes a move to pull it out and that does provoke. Wands are helpful, but unless you are willing to do nothing but run around and heal one by one, channels do help when you have three or four people in serious conditions all at once.1. The touch from a healing wand does not provoke. The only part of using a touch spell that provokes is casting, and that's bypassed by the fact that you're not casting, but activating a wand, which explicitly does not provoke.
2. Drawing a wand counts as drawing a weapon or weapon-like object (wands are even given as an example) and does not provoke.
Channels do help if you have most of the party bleeding out all at once. But if that happens more times per day than 10 CHA can handle, you're already in over your head. If one person goes down and is dying, run over and CLW them with a wand so they stabilize and then get on with ending the fight.
Okay, so I may have gotten my rules mixed up, but at the end of the day, it really depends on what you want to do, and how you want to do it. And you would be surprised how many times per day especially in 1-5st levels have the table is down. Even if you are in over your head, it's good to have multiple options for all occasions. (Intros 1 with a sorcerer that casts either color spray or burning hands)
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Your mileage may vary, but I'm not saying that ALL your stat power should go into CHA for channel purposes. You do have to have a decent STR or DEX for your weapon of choice.
And if you're in melee, you also need DEX (or heavy armor) for AC, and CON for not-dead-ness.
But while we are healing, if you have 2 channels plus a feat makes four, add three and you have seven channels per day. Again it depends on the build and your mission as a cleric, but CHA is important.
You're self-contradicting here. First you say it depends on your build/mission, then you imply that CHA's importance is universal. CHA is only as important as you want it to be.
Especially in high levels when you have skills called Diplomacy, and Intimidate and Bluff, and Sense Motive that is based off of CHA and if you have a bad score that works against you as a cleric.
How you are you getting Sense Motive based on CHA? Some feat I'm not aware of?
But anyway, this goes back to the above: if what you want is to be a social skills guy, then yeah, CHA is important. If you want to be Mr. Channelz, then yeah, CHA is important. But only if those are your schticks. CHA is not important for all members of the class.
CHA is not important for "clerics". CHA is important for social guys and for channel-focused guys. A cleric is not necessarily those things.
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Your mileage may vary, but I'm not saying that ALL your stat power should go into CHA for channel purposes. You do have to have a decent STR or DEX for your weapon of choice. But while we are healing, if you have 2 channels plus a feat makes four, add three and you have seven channels per day. Again it depends on the build and your mission as a cleric, but CHA is important. Especially in high levels when you have skills called Diplomacy, and Intimidate and Bluff, and Sense Motive that is based off of CHA and if you have a bad score that works against you as a cleric.Also, I saw people say that you should forgo a CHA score and keep it at 10. I highly DO NOT recommend this. Reason being is that you deal with a lot of undead in PFS and in combat, if you need to mass heal, Channeling does not provoke, but all your other options to heal would.I thought we were talking about melee characters, not healers.
As for undead: spending points on channels so you can harm undead, when you could instead spend those points on being more effective against ALL enemies INCLUDING undead, seems pretty backwards.
all good points, but I think Jiggy was pointing out that we were discribing a PC that was a Combat Mook first, Cleric second. Someone who would sit at a new table and discribe himself as a Tank, and never mention cleric.
(oh, and Sense Motive is based off of WIS, not CHA).
Oi--Need more sleep between game sessions.
But if we're chatting about battle clerics, it's still important to have a decent CHA, you can't tank all day. If that were the case, go Divine Strateist and do away with your channel. The auto-buff built in is quite amazing.
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Your mileage may vary, but I'm not saying that ALL your stat power should go into CHA for channel purposes. You do have to have a decent STR or DEX for your weapon of choice.And if you're in melee, you also need DEX (or heavy armor) for AC, and CON for not-dead-ness.
But while we are healing, if you have 2 channels plus a feat makes four, add three and you have seven channels per day. Again it depends on the build and your mission as a cleric, but CHA is important.You're self-contradicting here. First you say it depends on your build/mission, then you imply that CHA's importance is universal. CHA is only as important as you want it to be.
Especially in high levels when you have skills called Diplomacy, and Intimidate and Bluff, and Sense Motive that is based off of CHA and if you have a bad score that works against you as a cleric.How you are you getting Sense Motive based on CHA? Some feat I'm not aware of?
But anyway, this goes back to the above: if what you want is to be a social skills guy, then yeah, CHA is important. If you want to be Mr. Channelz, then yeah, CHA is important. But only if those are your schticks. CHA is not important for all members of the class.
CHA is not important for "clerics". CHA is important for social guys and for channel-focused guys. A cleric is not necessarily those things.
You do have a point Jiggy, that CHA may NOT be the case for all. (and I'm a little sleepy so I mixed up Sense Motive) But PFS is very much a social game. Especially in higher tiers and in newer seasons where in some cases, you don't draw a weapon until 2-3 hours into the game. I also misunderstood the initial convo that David is looking for more of a battle cleric instead of a healing or utility one. That does change the build needs a bit.
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at the end of the day, it really depends on what you want to do, and how you want to do it.
Yes. And if you want to be a melee-focused cleric, those 5 stat points that a 14 CHA costs you are going to have far less positive impact on your healing ability than they'll have negative impact on your melee ability. The trade-off is poor. That's my point.
And you would be surprised how many times per day especially in 1-5st levels have the table is down.
You might be surprised how often the best way to save your friends is to leave them lying in their own blood puddles while you finish the fight.
Even if you are in over your head, it's good to have multiple options for all occasions.
Again, the 10 CHA cleric still has a few channels as an "ace in his sleeve" for those emergencies. Meanwhile, he's actually good at his primary job (melee combat).
If you build two near-identical melee clerics (one with 10 CHA and one with 14) and play them smart, the difference in combat ability will be far more pronounced than the difference in healing ability.
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Side note: Will be Pming my guide to building formidable clerics in PFS later.
Id be interested in reading your guide. Mind PMing it to me when you get it finished?
Sure, after my power nap! You know it's time for a nap when you mix up Sense Motive as a CHA instead of WIS. I'm blaming allergy medicine.
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and don't forget the weapon cords!If you want to just stabilize, you don't even have to go over, since stabilize is not a touch spell.
Also, spring loaded wrist sheathes are incredibly useful for clerics if you a worried about drawing wands and healing in combat.
Or to make your weapon and shield consecrated channel foci so that you don't have to waste a hand on your holy symbol.
Racial weapons for a Dwarf are Warhammer and Battle ax - both OK (not GREAT) as one handed weapons. And if you take a dip in fighter you get the Dwarven "Bastard-Ax".
Dwarves are probably the best battle-clerics. Actually any race with good racial weapons make better battle-clerics now that I think about it. Holy Vindicator will also get you the better axe if you go that route as a dwarven cleric.
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You do have a point Jiggy, that CHA may NOT be the case for all. (and I'm a little sleepy so I mixed up Sense Motive) But PFS is very much a social game. Especially in higher tiers and in newer seasons where in some cases, you don't draw a weapon until 2-3 hours into the game. I also misunderstood the initial convo that David is looking for more of a battle cleric instead of a healing or utility one. That does change the build needs a bit.
I agree about the social skills. They give more value to CHA than channeling does, in most cases. Social skills as a secondary function justify a slightly higher CHA. Channeling doesn't justify (on its own) a higher CHA unless it's your primary focus.
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....snipping lots of back and forth stuff...
This is why this game is so much fun. I can easily see a Melee-Tank that could be a cleric - filling the role of Front Link Fighter, with a build much like a Wise Barbarian. His CHA abilities and skills are un-important next to his combat skills...
Hay! Thanks! the Divine Strateist idea is great! I need to go check this out now...
I have a cleric that took this archtype in my society, although he's a little lost when it comes to undead because you have to give it up. But always being ready, and passing that to your allies, is always for the win. He tagged this with Heavy Armor and something else, I can't remember off the top of head, but he had a cleric with a AC 26 at 3rd level and it made all our GM's pissed. But it was PFS legal and there was nothing we could do about it.
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and don't forget the weapon cords!If you want to just stabilize, you don't even have to go over, since stabilize is not a touch spell.
Also, spring loaded wrist sheathes are incredibly useful for clerics if you a worried about drawing wands and healing in combat.
Or to make your weapon and shield consecrated channel foci so that you don't have to waste a hand on your holy symbol.
Racial weapons for a Dwarf are Warhammer and Battle ax - both OK (not GREAT) as one handed weapons. And if you take a dip in fighter you get the Dwarven "Bastard-Ax".Dwarves are probably the best battle-clerics. Actually any race with good racial weapons make better battle-clerics now that I think about it. Holy Vindicator will also get you the better axe if you go that route as a dwarven cleric.
Half-Orc Cleric of Cayden Cailean and his greataxe of freedom would like to have a word with you.
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Cats get rake at 1st level. It's just only useful once you have established a grapple, since you don't get pounce until 7th level. PRD link
Cat, Big (Lion, Tiger)
Starting Statistics: Size Medium; Speed 40 ft.; AC +1 natural armor; Attack bite (1d6), 2 claws (1d4); Ability Scores Str 13, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 15, Cha 10; Special Attacks rake (1d4); Special Qualities low-light vision, scent.7th-Level Advancement: Size Large; AC +2 natural armor; Attack bite (1d8), 2 claws (1d6); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4; Special Attacks grab, pounce, rake (1d6) .