If the Summoner takes the Toughness Feat, does his Synthetic Eidelon benefit from it when determining her HP? Seems only fair, since the Eidelon can't take feats, only the Summoner.
I'm only just now getting into really taking a hard look at the synthesist, so a more experienced voice would be appreciated. But my initial thought reflects that of Finkmilkana.
The summoner takes the feat, and only the summoner gets the additional HP's. IF you gave it to both the summoner and the eidelon, the character as a whole would effectively get to double-dip from that feat.
I mean -- look at it this way -- through the appropriate use of the Fused Link class feature, the summoner already gets to bestow his added Toughness hp to his combined character.
Just remember that for the synthesist archetype, the eidilon gains no skills or feats of its own. :/
Don't temporary hit points stack?
They sure don't.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature.
from synthesist
Yep. So if you cast the spell on yourself without the eidolon present, you'd have a small pool of temp HP. So, if you cast it when your eidolon is present, it still affects you, so it would be temp HP added to YOUR total and then the temp HP from the eidolon would go on top of that. This means if the eidolon temp HP got knocked all the way down, it would dismiss, and then you'd have the false life temp HP to go through before your actual HP was hit.
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Yep. So if you cast the spell on yourself without the eidolon present, you'd have a small pool of temp HP. So, if you cast it when your eidolon is present, it still affects you, so it would be temp HP added to YOUR total and then the temp HP from the eidolon would go on top of that. This means if the eidolon temp HP got knocked all the way down, it would dismiss, and then you'd have the false life temp HP to go through before your actual HP was hit.
You are a single creature. There is no separation of spells. If you cast Bull's Strength on yourself without your eidolon, it will still be in effect when your eidolon is summoned.
I would question this in the case of Ioun stones.Don't temporary hit points stack?They sure don't.
There are exceptions to every rule (when explicitly called out).
For example, a synthesist who uses a wand of false life with UMD is wasting his time?
I believe so, yes. Unless his temporary hit points are about to run out, and he is trying to replace them by overlapping a larger sum, he isn't going to gain any benefit.
In 3.5 temporary hp from different sources stacked. Ie having aid cast, and casting vampiric touch. What language was removed or introduced to end this?
I distinctly remember this NOT being the case.
Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of them separately.
For example, imagine a character who gained 15 temporary hit points from an aid spell. After taking 8 points of damage, she has 7 temporary hit points left from the spell. If another aid spell were cast on the same character granting 12 temporary hit points, this total would replace the other spell’s total, meaning the character would now have 12 temporary hit points (rather than 19). If the character then cast false life on herself, she would add the full benefit of that spell to the temporary hit points from the aid spell.
This also applies to temporary hit points gained from energy drain and similar special abilities. Each successful attack counts as one application of the effect (meaning that an attack that bestows 2 or more negative levels still counts as only one application of the effect). For example, a wight gains 5 temporary hit points each time it bestows a negative level with its slam attack. If it bestows another negative level while it has 2 temporary hit points remaining from the first attack, the new temporary hit points would replace the old ones.
Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the next oldest effect. For this reason, you must track each supply of temporary hit points separately.
I REALLY HATE MY MEMORY.
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http://paizo.com/forums/dmtyzdcs?Temporary-Hit-Points-Stacking
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19539770/Do_Temporary_Hit points_stack
http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1675.0
"Temporary hit points gained from multiple applications of the same effect don’t stack. Instead, the highest number of temporary hit points gained from that effect apply. If temporary hit points are gained from multiple, different sources that stack, keep track of those sources and when they were gained separately. Any damage taken is first subtracted from the oldest effect that granted temporary hit points. When those are gone, subtract damage from the next oldest effect, and so on."
FAQs from 3.5 seem to support temporary hit points from different sources as stacking. So again, just asking what changed? Was it wording on the magic rules? Or did opinion of the FAQ writers change?
My synthesist is much happier at least. False life happens to be one of my favorite spells.
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. [...]Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor.
Aka - if a multiclassed synthesist/barbarian rages, his con and str goes up - and the eidolons does as well. This gives him an increase in his normal hp and it increases the temporary hp he gets from his eidolon.
The hp from his eidolon are temporary hp's - that means that they do not stack with spells like False Life or Vampiric Touch.
The Synthesist uses all of his own abilities and gear. The synthesists and the eidolon is one creature. Aka - the toughness feat gives hp to both the synthesist and the eidolon.
There is no mentioning of some abilities only affecting the synthesist and some abilities only affecting the eidolon. They are fused into one creature - all effects are added to them as one creature. Toughness makes you gain +1 hp per lvl/HD.
That is how I read it.
Derwalt, see the above posted rules quote about temporary HP stacking.
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- An eidolon derives hit points from it's Con.
- If an eidolons Con increases, so does its hit points.
- With the synthesist; eidolon hit points are calculated as per normal rules
- Those hit points are then treated as temporary hit points.
- Rage increases Con, which increases both the synthesists real hit points and his eidolon's hit points.
- The rules for decreasing Con work the same way: sucks to be a synthesist and get hit by Con reducing effects. (Note: actual ability damage has a specific ruling for synthesist - it decreases the base stat and is not a modifier.)
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p.s. Summoners don't need to multiclass to get rage. It is on their spell list.
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Derwalt, see the above posted rules quote about temporary HP stacking.The 3.5 FAQ is not the Pathfinder FAQ.
it hasn't been addressed in a Pathfinder FAQ, but i was legitimately asking before: has the wording changed for temporary hit points / same effects stacking, in such a way that it would decimate the conclusion reached in the previous edition?
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Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. These hit points are in addition to the character’s current hit point total and any damage taken by the character is subtracted from these hit points first. Any damage in excess of a character’s temporary hit points is applied to his current hit points as normal. If the effect that grants the temporary hit points ends or is dispelled, any remaining temporary hit points go away. The damage they sustained is not transferred to the character’s current hit points. When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.
That's all the CRB has to say about temporary hit points. I would say temporary hit points from the same source do not stack, so no casting false life multiple times, but there is no reason why a synthesist with three levels of wizard can't cast it on himself for more of a buffer.
I'm glad all these questions keep coming up - building my 'Overfiend' as we speak.
Understood that the RAW states Eidolon gets no Skills/Feats of it's own.
But, shouldn't the fused/suited form benefit from the Eidolon's presumably innate "Class Skills"? Essentially, making them Class Skills for the Summoner when in fused/suited form?
Maybe only untrained Skills.
Lastly, understood that one can purchase +8 as a racial bonus via evolution. And, assuming this will not stack with Summoner "racial bonus" to the same skill per stacking rules?
Just a couple of thought I didn't find specifically addressed.
Why am I saying this... trying to add utility/flavor/story (organically, sans evolutions) to the Synthesist and stop all the "tank-talk".
Access to additional skills like Bluff or Sense Motive can help with Combat Maneuvers and related Feats. This especially helps Biped forms. Who don't want to look "monstrous".
As to Toughness, I feel the spirit of the archetype suggests ONLY the Summoner benefits. Or else, you'd be "double-dipping".
It's not a matter of real or temp. The benefit of Toughness give +1 per HD (or class level). If you applied each/both, you'd be approximately doubling the benefit.
Other Feats... are what I'd call "use based", since you're fused and take action in tandem... they are not effectively doubled.
Under Evolutions:
In "The summoner must be at least 8th level before selecting this evolution."...
Is this equivelant to a Caster Level requirement?
In the above requirement and if Multi-Classing with 2 levels of "other class", would the Magical Knack Trait make the Summoner eligible with 6 levels of Summoner?
For equity's sake, sort of how it would work for other classes.
I get the distinction, which is why I'm asking the question.
So, in the spirit of the rule... An evolution may be too powerful for a certain level of campaign (assuming no multi-classing).
So, this evolution would be appropriate for an 8th level campaign, party, adventure, etc...
If the Summoner happens to be 6/2 Summoner/Other, she's 8th Level. And, still doesn't have the ability, power, access to unlocking this evolution. Given.
Now, with Magical Knack... again, the spirit of the trait is to allow spell-casters to maintain their potency, while rounding out their character by multi-classing.
So, I'm inferring that Magicak Knack should allow the 6/2 Summoner to access an this evolution. That is in effect, the benefit of having a "knack".
As opposed to another Summoner, 6/2 who does not have Magical Knack... and could not do the same.
So, without the editorial/commentary regarding my inference... you're basic answer is... "RAW".
Guess I was hoping for a discussion. Exchange of ideas, viewpoints, exploration, reasoning, etc...
Thanks!
So do you think Boon Companion would work then Mergy?
Boon Companion is very specific about what it works on, and Eidolons aren't on the list.