Can you cast `Surmount Affliction` whlie confused, dazed, or paralyzed?


Rules Questions


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Normally you can't cast, but this spell has a casting time of 1 standard action:

Surmount Affliction:

School abjuration; Level cleric/oracle 2, inquisitor 2

CASTING

Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECT

Range you
Target personal
Duration 1 round/level

DESCRIPTION

You temporarily overcome one harmful condition. This does not end the effect causing the condition; it just suspends that condition’s effect for the duration of the spell. You can surmount any one of the following conditions: blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, fatigued, frightened, paralyzed, shaken, or sickened.

Liberty's Edge

The target is personal, and it's specifically meant to suspend the mentioned conditions.

Unless it was possible to cast it, it would have no use, so I believe yes.

Grand Lodge

Prone shooter of spells?


Its also V,S...


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Zahariel wrote:

The target is personal, and it's specifically meant to suspend the mentioned conditions.

Unless it was possible to cast it, it would have no use, so I believe yes.

The duration is 1 round/ level meaning its supposed to be cast as a precautionary measure in the forthcoming rounds. I cant understand the logic behind the "deeming the spell useless so it must be cast during paralyzed confused and dazed". If this was true, then this is too good for a 2nd level spell even if it is only personal.


harmor wrote:

Normally you can't cast, but this spell has a casting time of 1 standard action:

** spoiler omitted **

Hamor, thank you for making my day entertaining.

So, you are really asking if a character can take an action when they are effected by a condition that prevents them from taking an action. Realllllly Haaarmor, Reaaaally?

The only time in the confused state one could cast said spell is if the act normally chance occurred.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

I have to say that unless you CAN use the spell while so afflicted, it does make it ALMOST useless.

And the term "overcome" is used rather than "prevent". It does appear to be used to *overcome* said afflictions, not prevent them. How can you *overcome* dazed or paralysed if you can't cast this spell while dazed or paralysed?

This needs to be FAQed.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

If you were confused, and rolled 'act normally', then you could cast it.
If you were paralyzed, and had taken it as a quickened, or silent/stilled spell, then you could cast it.
If you are dazed, but temporarily protected from the dazed for a round, you could cast it.

Otherwise you can't cast the spell. The spell description does not say that it allows you to take a standard action when you would otherwise not be able to.


So the spell should say "prevent" not "overcome" then to avoid confusion.

Liberty's Edge

I think moon glum is on the right track. It seems pretty clear that it's intended to be cast after the condition is in place, and then overcomes that condition for a short period of time. To successfully cast it for a given condition, you have to be able to provide the components. Given that those are V,S, then you'd have to be able to speak and move, unless you had an ability or other rules resource that overcame that, such as the metamagic feats indicated.

Liberty's Edge

Note, the spell could also be used as part of a contingency, incorporated into a magic item (although not a potion), or similar.


moon glum wrote:


If you were paralyzed, and had taken it as a quickened, or silent/stilled spell, then you could cast it.

I do not see the ralation between paralyzed and quickened spell. The feat do not remove the verbal nor the somatic components of spells.


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My understanding is that the spell description is a typo. It seems to me that it was intended as an Immediate action. As its range is Personal, that prevents it from becoming terribly over powered.


Sorry to necro, but I've come across this spell and want to see what the actual intent of it is. Prevention, or suppression of these effects? Was there an FAQ or errata since?


Nope. It still makes no sense and should be clarified. My take is that someone goofed the components, pretty much every spell says V, S I think they just forgot to change it. It could also be an immediate action which would also make sense as it would occur as you begin to feel the effects but before they fully take effect, saving you from paralysis. The duration is how long it suppresses it not how long it prevents it and it only suppresses one so the arguments above about it being overpowered or acting as a preventative are a bit ridiculous.


I don't think it can be used preventatively, because it suppresses a condition. If you don't have a condition, it can't suppress one.

My other question: Say you have this up. You are hit by an effect which dazes you for one round. After that round is up, you are hit by an effect which sickens you for one round.

Do you suppress both of them, because you are only suppressing one at a time, or once it's suppressed "dazed" for a round is that casting then locked to "dazed" effects and unable to suppress any other effects?

If two things daze you, do both things get resolved to "the dazed condition", which the spell then suppresses, or does it suppress one and then the other affects you?


Is there any way to get an actual Paizo ruling on this?

Grand Lodge

Xiao Ping wrote:
Is there any way to get an actual Paizo ruling on this?

Yes, they call that the FAQ button on the first post.

Liberty's Edge

Zahariel wrote:

The target is personal, and it's specifically meant to suspend the mentioned conditions.

Unless it was possible to cast it, it would have no use, so I believe yes.

You can cast it in advance to protect yourself from one of those conditions for 1 round/level.

DrDeth wrote:

I have to say that unless you CAN use the spell while so afflicted, it does make it ALMOST useless.

And the term "overcome" is used rather than "prevent". It does appear to be used to *overcome* said afflictions, not prevent them. How can you *overcome* dazed or paralysed if you can't cast this spell while dazed or paralysed?

This needs to be FAQed.

Prevent = I cast blindness on you, you don't need to roll a saving throw at all as the effect is prevented.

Overcome = I cast blindness on you. You roll your ST. If you fail, you are affected by the blindness but it is overcome by the spell for the spell duration.

harmor wrote:
So the spell should say "prevent" not "overcome" then to avoid confusion.

That would make it way more powerful. It is the equivalent of delay poison, not of immunity to poison.


This would work great also, if it is not "personal"


Although the OP's question still remains, I understand that a warpriest could use a fervor to cast this spell. That would make it a swift action, which I think overcomes the paradox. Is that correct?


^Not unless you have some way to upgrade your Swift Actions to Immediate Actions (which is probably the reason for somebody posting above about using Quicken Spell); I can't think of any such upgrade off the top of my head.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Faq'd. Spellcasters' mountain of toys doesn't nearly overshadow the martials' lump of coal enough yet.


Oh, I found a way for warpriests to cast this while paralyzed.

It requires you to have already cast Blessing of Fervor, which is a good spell so not a hard condition to meet.
Choose the bonus "Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell." at the start of your turn for the silent spell.
Then fervor swift-cast Surmount Affliction, this removes the somatic and verbal components leaving the spell component-less, making the cast a valid action you can do while being paralyzed.


HetBlik wrote:

Oh, I found a way for warpriests to cast this while paralyzed.

It requires you to have already cast Blessing of Fervor, which is a good spell so not a hard condition to meet.
Choose the bonus "Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell." at the start of your turn for the silent spell.
Then fervor swift-cast Surmount Affliction, this removes the somatic and verbal components leaving the spell component-less, making the cast a valid action you can do while being paralyzed.

Nope. Still doesn't work. Allows you to cast silent OR still, not silent AND still. So you've only eliminated one of the roadblocks.

Nevermind the fact that making it a quickened spell turns it into a 6th level spell for this purpose, so no longer qualifies for blessing of fervor.


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bbangerter wrote:
HetBlik wrote:

Oh, I found a way for warpriests to cast this while paralyzed.

It requires you to have already cast Blessing of Fervor, which is a good spell so not a hard condition to meet.
Choose the bonus "Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell." at the start of your turn for the silent spell.
Then fervor swift-cast Surmount Affliction, this removes the somatic and verbal components leaving the spell component-less, making the cast a valid action you can do while being paralyzed.

Nope. Still doesn't work. Allows you to cast silent OR still, not silent AND still. So you've only eliminated one of the roadblocks.

Nevermind the fact that making it a quickened spell turns it into a 6th level spell for this purpose, so no longer qualifies for blessing of fervor.

The warpriest class ability fervor already removes the somatic components when using it to swift cast, so the spell Blessing of Fervor is only needed to remove the vocal component.

Also I don't see why one would need the quickened metamagic? The whole point of the warpriest fervor ability is that you can swift cast spells on yourself, that is what the class does.

EDIT: To avoid confusion, there is the warpirest class ability called Fervor, allowing the warpriest to swift cast spells when the target is only the warpriest. There is also the spell Blessing of Fervor that is on the warpriest spell list but is in no way related to the Fervor class ability.


HetBlik wrote:
bbangerter wrote:
HetBlik wrote:

Oh, I found a way for warpriests to cast this while paralyzed.

It requires you to have already cast Blessing of Fervor, which is a good spell so not a hard condition to meet.
Choose the bonus "Cast a single spell of 2nd level or lower as if it were an enlarged, extended, silent, or still spell." at the start of your turn for the silent spell.
Then fervor swift-cast Surmount Affliction, this removes the somatic and verbal components leaving the spell component-less, making the cast a valid action you can do while being paralyzed.

Nope. Still doesn't work. Allows you to cast silent OR still, not silent AND still. So you've only eliminated one of the roadblocks.

Nevermind the fact that making it a quickened spell turns it into a 6th level spell for this purpose, so no longer qualifies for blessing of fervor.

The warpriest class ability fervor already removes the somatic components when using it to swift cast, so the spell blessing of fervor is only needed to remove the vocal component.

Also I don't see why one would need the quickened metamagic? The whole point of the warpriest fervor ability is that you can swift cast spells on yourself, that is what the class does.

Ah, my mistake. When you said fervor cast, I thought you were talking about blessing of fervor enhanced cast, and not the warpriest fervor ability.


Ah yes, two things with almost exactly the same name but not really related.
I already got my group confused the first time by giving them blessing of Fervor, from all the times I've been using Fervor on myself they were disappointed that there was nothing with swift casting to gain for them from the spell.

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