I have poured over the message forums and the rules and I am still confused on the vampiric touch spell. Can someone clarify how it works, specifically does it stack with itself?
The rules state:
Spells that provide bonuses or penalties on attack rolls, damage rolls, saving throws, and other attributes usually do not stack with themselves. More generally, two bonuses of the same type don't stack even if they come from different spells
and...
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths: In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.
Now I understand that some spells, like touch of idiocy, deal a penalty where other spells, like calcific touch, deals damage. Casting "touch of idiocy" multiple times only benefits you if you roll higher on subsequent castings, but the affects don't stack, but "calcific touch" does stack because it is damage.
I understand "effects" to be any type of spell result applied to the target that is not damage, like confusion, darkness, blindness, haste, et cetera.
Vampiric touch states:
Your touch deals 1d6 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d6). You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal.
and target equals....
Target living creature touched
In in other words the caster is NOT the target. Since the temporary hit points are NOT on the target or an area, they should stack if vampiric touch is the type of spell that stacks.
I read this to mean that vampiric touch does stack with itself in much the same way calcific touch stacks with itself. Actually I can read it three ways.
1: You cast vampiric touch 3 times on the target and it functions as stated and stacks.
2: You cast vampiric touch 3 times on the target and the effects don't stack, but they do overlap. So if you damage them for 12, 7, and 9 and you get attacked for 10 points damage three times in a row, then the first attack takes 10 from 12 so you are left with 2,7,9. The second attack takes 10 from 9 and you take 1point damage and are left with 2,7. And the last attack takes 10 from 7 dealing 3 points damage, and you are left with just 2 temporary hit points.
3: You cast vampiric touch 3 times and it damages as normal all three times, but it only gives you temporary hit points once. If you roll more damage on subsequent rolls then your temp hp becomes the new highest, but it doesn't stack or overlap in any way.
The forums seem to reflect option three, but my reading of RAW does not support that in my mind. I read it as option 1, but I could see option 2 as being closer to RAW.
My reasoning is it is a damage spell and the caster is not the target.
This has confused me greatly and how this works will greatly affect whether my 8th level sorcerer takes vampiric touch.
Thank you,
I believe option three is the correct option... but you could argue that the spell will allow up to max damage in Temp HP as the cap. So if your spell does 6D6 Damage you can cast it as many times as you want and the target will always take the damage. But you cannot gain more then 36 temp HP in total as that is the cap the spell could allow.
The rules are pretty vague on the subject. I do not see how allowing HP to stack on the caster up to the maximum for the spell is beyond the intended power of the spell.
Vampiric touch states:Target living creature touchedIn in other words the caster is NOT the target. Since the temporary hit points are NOT on the target or an area, they should stack if vampiric touch is the type of spell that stacks.
I read this to mean that vampiric touch does stack with itself in much the same way...
Damage on the target stacks. The caster is not the target, nor is she taking (or healing) damage. The temporary hit points gained are the result of a spell. A second casting of the same spell is the same effect more than once, and does not stack.
However, since temporary hit points are lost first, you can get a situation where casty vampiric touches fighty, who then whacks her hard enough to eliminate ALL her temporary hit points plus a few NON-temporary ones. Casty does it again, gaining more temporary hit points. Repeat until casty or or fighty run out.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
However, since temporary hit points are lost first, you can get a situation where casty vampiric touches fighty, who then whacks her hard enough to eliminate ALL her temporary hit points plus a few NON-temporary ones. Casty does it again, gaining more temporary hit points. Repeat until casty or or fighty run out.
This happened to my group in an AP:
Vampiric touch states:Target living creature touchedIn in other words the caster is NOT the target. Since the temporary hit points are NOT on the target or an area, they should stack if vampiric touch is the type of spell that stacks.
I read this to mean that vampiric touch does stack with itself in much the same way...
Damage on the target stacks. The caster is not the target, nor is she taking (or healing) damage. The temporary hit points gained are the result of a spell. A second casting of the same spell is the same effect more than once, and does not stack.
However, since temporary hit points are lost first, you can get a situation where casty vampiric touches fighty, who then whacks her hard enough to eliminate ALL her temporary hit points plus a few NON-temporary ones. Casty does it again, gaining more temporary hit points. Repeat until casty or or fighty run out.
Since this was brought up in other threads, am I correct in understanding that if you also cast false life then you have two sets of temporary hit points ( like my OP option2) since you cast two different spells? Or are they considered the same effect?
And sneak attack damage and critical damage are not added into temp hit points gained, much like sneak attack or elemental enhancement damage are not applied more then once on critical hits?
Since Vampiric Touch requires an attack roll and does HP damage, it would appear to be able to do precision (sneak attack) damage and be able to get a critical hit.
As to False Life and Vampiric Touch stacking, isn't that "Same Effect" ? The effect being "gain temporary hit points" ? That's like being under the effect of "Overland Flight" and "Fly" at the same time. Two different spells, but same (general) effect. You wouldn't add the two fly speeds together, you'd use the greater.
Thank you everyone for your responses. I will refer to this post in the future. I was driving myself insane trying to rationalize every option I saw. Lol
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Actually there was an errata in 3.5 that stated that temporary hit points from different effects stack, but not from the same spell/effect. Say you are a 10 level sorcerer casting false life on yourself and vampiric touch over and over to your target.
You get 1d8+10 temporary hit points from false life(average 14)and from your first vampiric touch on the target you deal 5d6 dmg on your target, average 17 dmg gaining that as temporary hit points as well.
Now you have a total temporary hit points on yourself 14+17=31 but you should track them seperately. Say if you get hit by an attack you subtract the old temporary hit points, in this case false life since it was cast earlier and then you continue subtracking hp from the temporary hp from vampiric touch.
Now if u didnt get hit and you get to cast a second vampiric touch, lets say this time you deal 20 dmg. It doesnt stack with itself, meaning your 17 hp from your first vampiric touch fade and get refreshed by the new stronger 20 temporary hit points from the second casting. Always take the stronger effect from an effect cast twice.
So bottom line is, temporary hit points from different sources stack, when hit always subtrack the damage from the older effect, and when you get temporary hit points from the same source they dont stack but get refreshed by the stronger effect.